Matt D

There is concept and there is execution. I don't see how you could begin to compare Gagne and RVD when it comes to concept. Let me put it this way, if Gagne was the most awkward wrestler in the world (which he's not) and RVD the smoothest, then what I've seen out of Gagne's basic understanding of how to work a coherent, meaningful match still utterly eclipses RVD. EDIT: Which isn't to say I COMPLETELY love CHEATING FACE Greg Gagne. Remember though. Greg Gagne really only "cheated" when he was facing a bad guy who deserved a little taste of his own medicine. I'm sure if we watched all the TV during the time of the AWA set, it'd be full of the bad guys cutting promos on the good guys and fucking them over in various other matches besides the big ones on the set. By the time the matches went down, the good guys were justified to throw the bad guys tactics back in their faces, and that's why the crowds went nuts. It's not as if the High Flyers cheated when they'd do a studio match against two job guys, I'd imagine. Edit: The AWA Set: So Fucking Great It's Invading Threads Everywhere! Which would be every heel in the AWA and not every face did it, but Greg always did. The jerk. Of course he's a car salesman now. Snake oil.

Neither here nor there, but my FIRST wrestling experience, my first real one, after being annoyed by friends for years because it was fake and stupid, was begging my parents to stay up and watch a SNME in 90 mainly because i'd be a schoolyard pariah if didn't know what happened.

There is concept and there is execution. I don't see how you could begin to compare Gagne and RVD when it comes to concept. Let me put it this way, if Gagne was the most awkward wrestler in the world (which he's not) and RVD the smoothest, then what I've seen out of Gagne's basic understanding of how to work a coherent, meaningful match still utterly eclipses RVD. EDIT: Which isn't to say I COMPLETELY love CHEATING FACE Greg Gagne.

For what it's worth I LOVE the crowd during Warrior vs Savage. Poor Randy.

You know what would have been cool extras for the 1992 set? Scans of the Marvel WCW comic. This is the only equivalent I can think of for 90, but they were actually a big deal. May have been part of what got me into wrestling.

How big were the crowds during the various UK Rampage tours that Davey were a big part of in 91-92?

If they want to make him, they do Brock vs Sheamus at Mania and let it slip to the sheets that it'll be brock's last match before his contract runs out and he doesn't want to resign because he's had enough. The super smarky Mania crowd will shit all over him and cheer Sheamus to the moon.

I saw the promo and can't believe there was no payoff to that. What the hell, AWA? They could have done Hennigs + Whoever vs Bock/Saito/Race and it would have been awesome.

See, I'm curious about the intersect between these two comments. When MJH is saying that, who is he talking about? The average person over 40, or the average person he talks to who is still really into wrestling. There's a difference and it matters. I don't think the average person who grew up with the WWF in the US when it was big nationally would mention Dynamite Kid or Ricky Steamboat before they got through guys like JYD and Duggan.

I guess my question is this: Was what Big Daddy did effective? Was it what he was sent out there to do? Was it effective over time? For what he was supposed to do, did he do it the way he was meant to? Did it WORK? Did it work over time? If he had changed it, would it have had an impact (this being supposition of course)? When we figure that out, then we can move on to whether or not we personally liked it or disliked it and the long term effects it had on British Wrestling and the business of it. I have a hard time holding it against a guy for doing what he was supposed to when it worked for a relatively long period of time, especially because it just doesn't conform to what our idea of good wrestling is. Not when we're looking at other metrics. But then I don't know enough about this. Which is why I'm asking.

So he's a more over Brody on the Blow Away diet?

Or something actually useful like Sheamus/Brock.

I always looked at him more like a Greg Gagne replacement since he teamed with Brunzell so much. Does that help? Well, he was feuding with Adnan, but then I guess they did the Brody attack on Gagne/Brunzell, too. And no, it doesn't help, because otherwise we would have gotten the boss Blackwell/Brunzell team. EDIT: What was the payoff for Larry the Ax getting pissed off at Race re: Curt? I know Larry and Harley were a big tag team but did they feud in the 70s?

Holy Crap. Tony Atlas is the world's worst possible Jerry Blackwell replacement when Blackwell was out after the turn.

Just for the hell of it i watched a few Big Daddy matches on youtube, and he comes off as a guy who played his role very well, between soaking up the admiration of the crowd on the way to the ring (and knowing how to return it effectively), to sort of being a big immovable object in the ring. I haven't seen nearly enough, though, and I have other things that are more of a priority to me right now. Did he at least "play his role" well, even if detractors for one reason or another find that role reprehensible and embarrassing?

That was one conservative PPV, especially for what's supposed be the second biggest PPV of the year. Not to say that's a bad thing, necessarily. Mainly, I'm annoyed Rey didn't get Miz in the eyes with his bat-ears. Also I would have LOVED to see Daniel Bryan vs 1985 era Mr. Fuji in a kung fu challenge.

Honestly there are a lot of youtube "Series" some of which posted by some of the fine people here, that will give you tastes. Just a few examples. - Eddie Gilbert's 1990 run - Randy Savage/Dutch Mantell feud from 84 - Billy and Buddy Show Midnight Rockers in Memphis and so on. But really, it's worth watching whole years' worth of TV.

That French match is the best ROH match I've seen all year.

Oh I think that's exactly the picture I wanted to answer your question.

Maybe my FAVORITE thing the AWA crowd does is when Saito's doing his little sumo thing before a match, they'll go "Ohhhhhhhh." to his foot stomp. It's awesome. http://youtu.be/FjH5RXhXsDo?t=7m45s

This is an interesting question too. I've noticed in a lot of the AWA matches I've been watching there's more of a sense for struggle. In some of them, guys don't just go over for arm drags, for instance, but there's a sense of real fight to them. The end result is that they're not as beautiful or quick or snappy looking in some ways, but they drew me into the match a lot more than a lot of the more cooperative looking wrestling we get now. I could see how someone could look at them and think that they aren't nearly as impressive or high impact than what we get now, however.

Wrestling is symbolic. It's just a matter of training the fans. Selling is WAY more important than "execution" absolutely. Look at Blackwell selling Crusher's little pokey punches.

Rocky isn't an idiot. He wrestled Bret Hart. He wrestled Owen. He wrestled Benoit. He knows how to put on a sharpshooter. He 100% did the leg hug sharpshooter on purpose. Why? I don't have a frigging idea, but I refuse to believe he didn't know what he was doing. I DO believe that SID had no idea how to put the Crippler Crossface on right.

I don't buy it. Hell Anderson basically had a feud where the central thrust was the fact his opponent had just mastered the STF. Cena knows what he's doing and does it for a specific dramatic reason. Maybe he wants it big and loose for some visual reason. Maybe he does it for a laugh. Maybe it's because it really doesn't matter and it's all symbolic anyway. I just don't buy that there's not some element of causality there other than "He never figured out that he had a shitty looking move."