Matt D

I wish. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Verne-Gagnes-PRO-W...4-/310401938415 you missed out! http://www.ebay.com/itm/AWA-Pro-Wrestling-...=item35bf2a3eb5 Looks like one is still up there though.

In general, wasn't Luger sort of revered for the boys since, as the first guy to really come in with lawyers/agents, he opened the doors for contracts to get better for all of them.* *I MAY have heard that in a Luger interview so it's probably suspect but I kind of believe it.

Do you have any copies of Verne Gagne's Pro Wrestling Newsletter or whatever the heck they were calling that in 84. I bet the ASK MR. BRAIN columns were awesome.

God damn bait and switch Pro Wrestling USA. On the 11-17 show they build the whole show to Roadies vs Rich/Lawler for the 11-24 show, including one of my favorite Lawler promos ever. And then on the 11-24 show, the main event instead is Ron Bass vs Joel Deaton.

It's just that they mention a "superbowl of wrestling" where they'd combine all the world titles, including the NWA one, and they never actually mention who the NWA champ is.

Most territory guys were somewhat credible when they came in, actually, since a lot of them had been through the area before. Don't underestimate the impact of the magazines back in the days before 1984, either. I got familiar with tons of guys that way before I ever saw them, and when they came into the AWA, I knew who they were if they hadn't been in previously. The mags often added a "must-see" element to the debut of a new guy to the area since their exploits were always protrayed as over-the-top in terms of skill, virtuosity, violence, or villainy. I've never actually seen a mag from before 84 or so, so I have no idea just what the contents were like. I'm curious about how Patera was presented. Being an Olympian could lead to instant credibility, I suppose. It did with Angle with a lot of crowds: fans, sheets, wrestlers. Character is probably the wrong word but if someone was to sum up 70s Patera in a few words along those lines, how would they? With Bockwinkel, you'd say something like "Experienced Intellectual Wrestler from Beverly Hills."

If you're a wrestling fan in 1980 and they bring in Patera, do you know who he is? Is he instantly credible to you? Andre is. Dory Funk Jr. is. Billy Graham was, right? Was Patera?

It was AWA, a few NWA guys, and then the assorted Wrestling Superstars, being Backlund, Lawler, Rich, Race, Dory Jr, and Graham. I know some guys like Backlund, Graham, and Race worked AWA around here but still. In all the promos they'd mention lots of names and belts and people, but no Flair. The best part is Jimmy Hart managing Saito.

Ok. why the hell is Ric Flair not mentioned at ALL in the first month of Pro Wrestling USA TV. I know he wasn't at the tapings but still.

Really, doesn't this just come down to Kofi being kind of shitty?

Honestly, I'm not sure they can really get that far away from that. The trick is to make it interesting in the execution and ideas, to find clever ways to make a hot tag work and to make an opening shine segment interesting. I'm not sure it's about the what but instead about the how.

Obviously they need to institute the DOUBLE FIP And maybe the LATE MATCH SHINE LEGWORK

There is concept and there is execution. I don't see how you could begin to compare Gagne and RVD when it comes to concept. Let me put it this way, if Gagne was the most awkward wrestler in the world (which he's not) and RVD the smoothest, then what I've seen out of Gagne's basic understanding of how to work a coherent, meaningful match still utterly eclipses RVD. EDIT: Which isn't to say I COMPLETELY love CHEATING FACE Greg Gagne. Remember though. Greg Gagne really only "cheated" when he was facing a bad guy who deserved a little taste of his own medicine. I'm sure if we watched all the TV during the time of the AWA set, it'd be full of the bad guys cutting promos on the good guys and fucking them over in various other matches besides the big ones on the set. By the time the matches went down, the good guys were justified to throw the bad guys tactics back in their faces, and that's why the crowds went nuts. It's not as if the High Flyers cheated when they'd do a studio match against two job guys, I'd imagine. Edit: The AWA Set: So Fucking Great It's Invading Threads Everywhere! Which would be every heel in the AWA and not every face did it, but Greg always did. The jerk. Of course he's a car salesman now. Snake oil.

Neither here nor there, but my FIRST wrestling experience, my first real one, after being annoyed by friends for years because it was fake and stupid, was begging my parents to stay up and watch a SNME in 90 mainly because i'd be a schoolyard pariah if didn't know what happened.

There is concept and there is execution. I don't see how you could begin to compare Gagne and RVD when it comes to concept. Let me put it this way, if Gagne was the most awkward wrestler in the world (which he's not) and RVD the smoothest, then what I've seen out of Gagne's basic understanding of how to work a coherent, meaningful match still utterly eclipses RVD. EDIT: Which isn't to say I COMPLETELY love CHEATING FACE Greg Gagne.

For what it's worth I LOVE the crowd during Warrior vs Savage. Poor Randy.

You know what would have been cool extras for the 1992 set? Scans of the Marvel WCW comic. This is the only equivalent I can think of for 90, but they were actually a big deal. May have been part of what got me into wrestling.

How big were the crowds during the various UK Rampage tours that Davey were a big part of in 91-92?

If they want to make him, they do Brock vs Sheamus at Mania and let it slip to the sheets that it'll be brock's last match before his contract runs out and he doesn't want to resign because he's had enough. The super smarky Mania crowd will shit all over him and cheer Sheamus to the moon.

I saw the promo and can't believe there was no payoff to that. What the hell, AWA? They could have done Hennigs + Whoever vs Bock/Saito/Race and it would have been awesome.

See, I'm curious about the intersect between these two comments. When MJH is saying that, who is he talking about? The average person over 40, or the average person he talks to who is still really into wrestling. There's a difference and it matters. I don't think the average person who grew up with the WWF in the US when it was big nationally would mention Dynamite Kid or Ricky Steamboat before they got through guys like JYD and Duggan.

I guess my question is this: Was what Big Daddy did effective? Was it what he was sent out there to do? Was it effective over time? For what he was supposed to do, did he do it the way he was meant to? Did it WORK? Did it work over time? If he had changed it, would it have had an impact (this being supposition of course)? When we figure that out, then we can move on to whether or not we personally liked it or disliked it and the long term effects it had on British Wrestling and the business of it. I have a hard time holding it against a guy for doing what he was supposed to when it worked for a relatively long period of time, especially because it just doesn't conform to what our idea of good wrestling is. Not when we're looking at other metrics. But then I don't know enough about this. Which is why I'm asking.

So he's a more over Brody on the Blow Away diet?

Or something actually useful like Sheamus/Brock.

I always looked at him more like a Greg Gagne replacement since he teamed with Brunzell so much. Does that help? Well, he was feuding with Adnan, but then I guess they did the Brody attack on Gagne/Brunzell, too. And no, it doesn't help, because otherwise we would have gotten the boss Blackwell/Brunzell team. EDIT: What was the payoff for Larry the Ax getting pissed off at Race re: Curt? I know Larry and Harley were a big tag team but did they feud in the 70s?