Matt D

It would be hilariously hypocritical if I targeted Ted Dibiase for not having great matches. Also i want to see the Patera/Tommy Rich feud.

The board being down has slowed me down a little, but I toss my comments in an e-mail to myself post match and then put them on later. I love the names of the AWA jobbers. Rooster Griffith. The Black Panther. The IRON DUKE~. Nacho Berrera. The best is how they made NO attempt to hide the fact Referee Jim Mitchell was the Iron Duke. They just called him something different when he was wrestling. Hilarious.

"Jossie wound up in the WWE's doghouse after making an ill-advised Kobe Bryant rape joke during a live broadcast of "Monday Night Raw" on July 30." I feel like 90% of the people who were reading that stopped taking the article seriously after reading the second paragraph.

Part of me wants to go back and watch a lot of HTM to see how smart he really was. The rest of me really sort of doesn't.

Dylan, what about Sid as a guy who was in a bunch of places on top of the cards? I mean he's in the Sting/Luger/Jake class, but he's still in that class, maybe?

Jake Roberts? Worked Dibiase and Andre in WWF when they were the top heels and then Savage when he was a top face (and main evented a lot of B/C shows vs Rude, no?). Had the big Mohammed Ali match in Mid South. Worked Sting in WCW. It's a stretch before and after that but I know he did some stuff in GA close to the top and then he'd work close to the top briefly in SMW and ECW?

I suppose I owe you a drink if it ever comes to that.

SO, I e-mailed JJ Dillon off his website on a whim in order to see his thoughts on the "Was Tully In On It?" question, and we now have a DEFINITIVE answer. Also, JJ is awesome for responding.

Is there enough Florida footage to make a set? Enough Southeastern/Continental? OR will these be tossed into the random Other 80s Territories? Those are the two that I think, just due to longevity and a few key players enough footage might exist for.

In the history of US wrestling, of insanely heated crowds and people getting stabbed repeatedly and riots and a couple of local cops as security, has a heel ever been killed by the crowd?

And that's the wrong kind of heat? The wrong kind of heat is "Go away" heat. "We want to kill you" heat is gold.

Jack Hart vs Hector Guerrero from Florida TV from around then is too. Is there a pre-wwf Jack Hart comp anywhere?

I think he had a few Jr. Heavyweight titles here and there. Someone would probably know more. Vic DID make a tribute video though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iejOK2_uZyo

Mike Jackson is probably the best jobber of the 80s. If you ever get around to watching 84 Mid South TV, he's all over the place and is super solid.

The real issue is that the curtain has been yanked off. Twenty years ago, they could say "That evil guy did it." Now, they'd have to say "that actor portraying the evil guy did it tastelessly as part of his performance."

I absolutely agree about that first Arn/Tully tag being great. It amazed me that they were so good and natural together right out of the box like that.

I still can't get over the Finlay firing.

I just don't get how logically he'd be in any other spot during their tag run. It's mind boggling. I lived through it but I'm going to have to go back and see just to sate my curiosity now. As for the rest, we're in the same boat, apparently. I'm pretty positive they do too, but none come to mind.

Generally, that's a role where aging former aces could really show their strength, though. Putting matches together, utilizing the bigger guy, controlling the heat, protecting yourself and minimizing your physical limitations, etc. You almost have to try to screw it up, or show a total lack of understanding of how wrestling works. Was he really that bad in the role?

Which is wildly frustrating because who he was teaming with and who they were wrestling. But wouldn't Bock's prime as a tag wrestler be earlier than what we have too. There have to be a ton of Flair TV tag matches. I do think we could learn a ton from Flair/Batista tag fancams if they exist. edit: It's late, and it's been a very tiring oh, seven weeks here, so I'm blanking, BUT, is there a heel Flair match like the Bock/Martel match where they both spend the back half of the match engrossed in bodypart selling? Bock would often remember to sell after coming back on offense for a little bit, but that was a match very much built with long-term selling in mind. I can't think of too many heel Flair matches like that right now (But again, I'm tired).

That's not super convincing. I'll be able to talk about the face stuff later, and might try to see some of his AJPW work. I've really liked most of the early match Bock stuff I've seen (like i go nuts for the Bock/Brunzel test of strength, nuts), but I also really love Flair's early match work. I think they're both great at it. To me, Bock's might be a bit more inventive but that might just be a lack of familiarity. I definitely think you can't short change the energy Bock brings to the Verne stadium match. His bursts of speed are very striking. I just saw him run from Greg Gagne with a chair in an 85 post-match and it was just this wild flash of motion. And there's the Wahoo match, sure. But no, he doesn't bump like Flair. But he still bumps both big and in a number of varied ways. I certainly haven't been bored by the Bock I've seen. Can you talk a little about Flair as a tag worker since that's been a surprisingly impressive element of Bock's work?

I'd like to see some of the Bock babyface work before I say too much. I also realize I've been fed mostly top notch Bock stuff and not the dregs. But I can give a preview of sorts of that eventual longer post, with but a few examples now and more later. This is going to be completely through my filter of watching wrestling, which judging from the comments I've seen is wildly different from a lot of you. I care way more about what wrestlers do and why they do them and how they do them and range and being able to go into a match and take a random minute stretch and see if it makes sense, and whether or not they do things for the sake of doing them or if they make sense in the context of a match. I care way more about what a wrestler does than if he has great matches. I will say this. I've already seen a variety in Bock that I can't say I've seen in Flair, more versatility in heel Bock than heel Flair. He plays a LOT of different roles, but they're all believable and all him. He is a very character driven wrestler. I also feel like there is far more thought to what Bock does in the ring than Flair. Flair definitely has a few different matches (the studio one vs the up and comer, for instance), and a lot of those, I've seen Bock do as well, very well. I think so many of the Bock matches on the AWA set have felt very different. When we hit the JCP set, will that be the case for Flair? They're both very good at working a hold and working from the bottom of a hold, making it entertaining. Both have GREAT facial expressions. Both interact with the crowd very well. Bock for instance sold the Weasel chants in a way I've never seen a Heenan charge do, and the use of the boring chant is one of the most brilliant things I've ever seen in wrestling. It's just an awareness. He knows what's going on. He knows how to maximize the moment. Bock often does this whole body selling as a match goes on, which i like way more than Flair's late match getting-his-stuff-in. I think Bock is better at foreshadowing and building things in matches and between matches. Flair has the legwork to build to the figure four which is a nice built in piece of a match that will make sense every time out, and he's good at it, but Bock switches things up a lot more. A good chunk of his matches have the KOTM spot, but it's usually done very logically and early enough in the match that it isn't just lazy. That he can use so obtuse an element in logical and heated ways is actually sort of impressive. So far, Bock has shown some really great sense of tag work and timing, but I haven't seen enough Flair tags lately. Flair might be a bit above in the energy and manic bumping, but Bock is pretty good at that too. Flair wins on "ACTION" but Bock holds up way better than his reputation would say. I don't know, Dylan. You've seen a lot more of both guys than I have (though I've seen a lot of Flair in my life). What do you think Flair does better? EDIT: Earlier in the note Tim L said that the big problem in comparison was that we didn't have a ton of footage of Bock in his prime, but I'm talking about what I've seen of Bock in the 80s. I'm comparing 80s Bock vs 80s Flair and there's a lot with Bock that I like more. EDIT #2: I'm also mainly looking from an in ring standpoint, not about drawing or about "Being the champ." Overall presence. WON HOF PLACEMENT, or whatever. I'm looking at the matches i've seen, though I admit I only have the high end stuff from the AWA set to look at, but there's SO much you can learn about Bock from those matches, so much.

Alright, well this place exists to clear up false talking points, so thanks. It always amazed me how over Ronnie was in front of the studio audience. WAY before the 87 run too.

They let Benoit wrestle on TV when he had the belt?

The world needs to see it, so I am glad. I've been watching in order except for the Blackwell turn.