Loss Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I started this thread in response to this comment from jdw in the Punk thread: Outsiders didn't really draw huge. Despite all the myths and the historical hype after the fact, the intial angle didn't send things through the roof, and the first PPV didn't do a big buyrate relative to WCW's numbers at the time. But what happened at that first PPV *was* huge, and coming out of it is what made the Outsiders (now nWo) HUGE: Hogan turned I have always heard you say that, but the NWO angle just started about a month before Hogan's turn. Nash had only been in for a few weeks. What time period are you referring to that didn't draw? The Nitro that ended with Nash's debut (6/10 Nitro) was the last time they lost the ratings war until 1998. Are you referring to the buyrates for Great American Bash and Bash at the Beach that were surprisingly lower for the '96 shows than the '95 shows, when WCW is widely acknowledged to have been really cold? Between the GAB and BATB, there was an approximate 0.25 jump in the buyrate. Hogan came on board, and the buyrate for Hog Wild dropped from Bash at the Beach. Not blaming Hogan for that. In fact, I agree that Hogan's turn and mastering his new role is what made the buzz stick and translate to dollars. But using any barometer other than television ratings, there wasn't an immediate business spike when Hogan turned. By the time of the Savage and Piper matches, there definitely was. Hogan/Savage at Havoc did a 0.70, and Hogan/Piper did a 0.95, which was probably a PPV record for the company at the time. (Actually, just checked, and it looks like Hogan/Flair at Havoc '94 was actually a bigger success on PPV than even Hogan/Piper, doing a 0.97.) I wish there was a way to translate those percentages to number of buys for consistency, and also because it makes it easier to have conversations like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Wasn't WCW already gaining momentum in early 96 between interest in the really well done Sting/Luger stuff and the Macho/Flair stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Flair/Savage was drawing on house shows, yes, but PPV was in the toilet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 They did a 3.1 the week before Hall showed up. They'd done 3.5+ serveral times earlier in the year, and a month worth of 3.1+ earlier in the year as well. 3.1 05/20/96 2.8 05/27/96 3.0 06/03/96 2.6 06/10/96 No a massive jump leading to the PPV 3.4 06/17/96 Post PPV 3.3 06/24/96 3.3 07/01/96 The angle with Eric did well. 3.5 07/08/96 Post PPV 3.4 07/15/96 2.6 07/22/96 3.1 07/29/96 3.0 08/05/96 The 2.6 drop was on a show where I don't think Hogan was on the show. 3.3 08/12/96 Post PPV 3.5 08/19/96 4.2 08/26/96 4.3 09/02/96 3.7 09/09/96 3.7 09/16/96 Big bumps over 4.0 are the US Open weeks. The point at which they started really sustaining ratings was after the turn, and after Hogan won the title. Then MNF kicked in, taking them down into the 3.3-3.7 range until November where they had another dip. Again, I think most of that is simply MNF as they were still beating Raw well. 1995 vs 1996 PPV's * = Hogan PPV SuperBrawl 0.95* vs 0.63* Hogan-Vader vs Hogan Giant Uncensored 0.96* vs 0.70* Hogan-Vader vs Hogan & Savage Clusterfuck Slambore 0.57* vs 0.44 Hogan vs Non-Hogan Overall, the year is down quite a bit. Great American Bash 0.51 vs 0.48 Outsiders Debut for "War" with Eric. Even opposite a non-Hogan PPV, there's not much there. Bash at the Beach 0.82* vs 0.71 Hogan-Vader III vs Outsiders It's a bump up from three bad non-Hogan buyrates. It's not much of a bump over Hogan's poor buys earlier in the year (+0.08 & +0.01), and pretty much gets its clocked cleaned by all of the Vader-Hogan, even the third in an incredible poorly book feud. My strong recollection at the time is that this buy wasn't a Holy Shit Things Are Hot moment. Road Wild --- vs 0.62* A brand new PPV at a time when they're starting to go monthly, and against someone Hogan has faced a lot... this wasn't wildly disappointing. Fall Brawl 0.48* vs 0.65* This event had sucked in buys for years relative to other shows in the year. This is the *first* PPV all year that topped 1995, and we have a direct Hogan to Hogan comp. This was pretty much when you knew they were doing well. Havoc 0.60* vs 0.70* Another bump above the prior year, again a good buy. For a match that everyone had seen tons of times over the years, this was thought to be a big positive. WWII 0.43* vs 0.55~ Another bump on what another poor non-big PPV. I'd take this as comperable to GAB earlier in the year: that had the Outsiders in a non-wrestling role and went -0.03. This had Hogan in a non-wrestling role (contract signing with Piper) and it went +0.12 and also topped the Outsiders earlier in the year. Starcade 0.36 vs 0.95* Not the highest buyrate for WCW ever to that point. But they were charging more, and there were more homes with PPV... as I recall, this set record that would be broken the next year. This was a really big buy at a time when the WWF did a 1.1 and a 1.2 for Rumble & Mania in 1996, and would fall to .7 and .77 the following year. Huge. I'm not saying that the Hall & Nash were a bomb. They weren't. But the angle took off when (i) they promised #3 at BatB, and (ii) that #3 turned out to be Hogan. Then the angle (i.e. WCW) really took off when Hogan got the belt and became The Focus of WCW. Hall & Nash were his sidekicks, his backup... but there was little doubt that they were Arn & Tully to his vastly bigger Flair. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 People love secrets and mysteries. Did the Higher Power Reveal do great numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I don't recall even paying attention to WWF ratings at that point. We probably were more interested in WCW's goofy ratings once the WWF started beating them. It was similar in WCW: once they started clocking the WWF, week-to-week and month-to-month ratings weren't terribly interesting. Whether the WWF was sinking or improving was more interesting to follow. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Are you referring to the buyrates for Great American Bash and Bash at the Beach that were surprisingly lower for the '96 shows than the '95 shows, when WCW is widely acknowledged to have been really cold? didn't have Internet access at this time so I would have been suprised as hell to hear that. WCW felt like a dead product in 1995 and was on fire in summer of 96. That's really mind boggling. I'm having trouble thinking of reasons for those discrepancies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Are you referring to the buyrates for Great American Bash and Bash at the Beach that were surprisingly lower for the '96 shows than the '95 shows, when WCW is widely acknowledged to have been really cold? didn't have Internet access at this time so I would have been suprised as hell to hear that. WCW felt like a dead product in 1995 and was on fire in summer of 96. That's really mind boggling. I'm having trouble thinking of reasons for those discrepancies Numbers are above. One of the major issues was that PPV became pretty much fully monthly in 1996. IYH were started in 1995 and were in full in 1996. WCW filled in nearly all of their monthly schedule: January remained a hold out until Souled Out if I recall, but most of the months were filled in. Plus... There was now tons of hot shotted Free TV. Raw & Nitro initially *hurt* PPV because people could get tons of the Good Stuff for free. It took some time for buys to get a positive impact from all that free TV, at least enough to overcome also having 22-24 PPV a year / two a month to chose from. That was one of the big buzzes of late 1995: that head-to-head TV would kill PPV. Initially... the signs were that was happening. The WWF held off the tide in Jan-Mar 1996 with the Rumble to Mania run due to Shawn and the wildly underrated Bret-Taker-Nash feud that turned around house show business, help the Rumble (Bret-Taker in addition to Shawn's Rumble), and did the best IYH buy of the period in Feb (Bret-Nash cage). Then they started to be a little shakey over time after Mania before hitting the rails by 1997. WCW was shakey in late 1995 and into 1996, then rebounded to close very strong in 1996. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Numbers are above. ah makes sense now Starrcade 95 did a real shitty number. .36? Ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 They had a tendency to purposely under-promote shows that didn't feature Hogan most of the time, which I think was an attempt to make the Hogan shows even bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Numbers are above. ah makes sense now Starrcade 95 did a real shitty number. .36? Ouch I don't think there was a whole lot of mainstream appeal to Starcade 95. Past the main event and Triangle match, nothing really had a story behind it except for maybe Sting/Sasaki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 They had a tendency to purposely under-promote shows that didn't feature Hogan most of the time, which I think was an attempt to make the Hogan shows even bigger. Perhaps a little, but Hogan also typically was on the Big Shows. Starcade 1995 was one of the exceptions. WCW always promoted the bigger shows bigger because it was usually when storylines were peaking, especially in the sense of World Title matches. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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