Rey Misterio

[Guest Alfdogg]

I'd do it.

 

I'd been thinking about it a lot when the Angle/UT at Mania rumors were going around, and thinking if they wanted to use it to set up one last title run for UT, why not use Rey as the transitional champion for Angle? I'd guarantee had Rey pulled off an upset on JBL, it would've popped the crowd huge and spiked the ratings considerably (depending on your definition of "considerably", I suppose). Give him another fluke win at the Rumble, then put it on Angle at NWO or even back on JBL to set up the match we have now. I doubt it would work as an actual carry-the-company champion, but something like this could work, dammit.

 

Your thoughts?

[Loss]

Rey is a house show draw, which even WWE acknowledges through the way they position him, he sells merchandise and he has a certain appeal no one else on the roster has that makes him special. I absolutely would give Rey a run with the title in 2005. I would avoid letting guys like JBL, Heidenreich, Big Show and Undertaker in the title picture while he has the belt though, simply because the matches would be bad, they're not going to sell properly for him and it wouldn't be believable if Rey goes over. I'd also put him over for the belt in a TV match, not a PPV match, because it would really create an atmosphere WWE sorely needs where anything can happen. I can't see him holding the belt longer than three months or so, but those three months would be great, especially if he was feuding with Guerrero, Angle, RVD and maybe a RAW import like Michaels or Jericho.

[goodhelmet]

To be honest, I never thought of Rey as a World champ guy before but with your scenarios above, I could see it working. If he does feud with the big hosses... create a Mikey Whipwresck like-vibe where he wins despite all of the odds being against him.

[Guest Some Guy]

I don't think it would work out at all. If your champ cannot believably beat everybody in the company then he's not a true champ. I wouldn't do it because he'd be booked completely wrong and it would devalue that title even further. Fluke wins are ok for the secondary titles, but the big belt needs credibility and giving the title to a guy who is 5'2" and 190 lbs wouldn't do that. There aren't enough guys in the title pisture who wouldn't absolutely dwarf him for him to feud with for even 3 months. He could wrestle Eddy and Angle (who already beat him in a feud a few years ago), but who does he wrestle on SD!? Kidman?

 

Rey's biggest problem is that he's too popular for the Cruiserweight title, because they don't push the title as meaning anything and not physically large enough to be a legitimate heavywieght. At least a guy like Tazz, who is very short (5'5" or so) weighed like 250lbs.

 

No offense GH, but Whipreck was a joke as ECW Champ. They were a bush league promotion, who could get away with it because they were going to put 1000 people in the Arena every month. And once they got Douglas back and had a few other guys established Mikey never came close again.

[Loss]

Rey is smaller, but that's his whole appeal. It's what makes him stand out from the pack, and it's what makes him who he is. Yeah, he's not a traditional headliner, but I can't see it being a disastrous risk. HHH and Brock Lesnar are really the only two champions that the company has had in the last two years that the audience I think has truly believed could defeat anyone anytime.

[Guest Steffie]

I don't know. Wit Angle probably leaving soon, it's one less heel for Rey to face and right now when you look at the current list of heels, who could Rey really have a good feud with that would maintain the fans interest?

[Guest Some Guy]

EDIT: This was a delayed response to Loss' post.

 

I think Benoit had that after he made HHH and HBK tap. Kurt Angle could probably really take anyone in the locker room out, at least he could have before his injury. Goldberg was credible in that people thought he could steam roll through anybody.

 

I just don't see the fans taking Rey seriously as champ. He doesn't have the size or mic skills to pull it off. I;mnot sayign that the champ has to be 6'6" and 300lbs, as I was a big fan of Benoit, Angle, HBK, Bret, and many of the other non-hoss champs, but Rey is a cruiser weight in every sense, that's how he's been portrayed for the last 9 years. Eddy roided up to the point were he didn't look tiny, but even with Rey's phsyque he couldn't pull it off, plus guys like Taker and JBL would treat him like a joke.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

They could make Rey believable if the psychology of his matches were Rey wears out his opponents by running around them and having them chase him (they do this as a _spot_ rather than making it the psychology). His stamina is better, he's faster, and as such, they can't crush what they can't catch. Give him a finisher that cannot be kicked out of. Then, and this the most important part, have everyone questioning "How can I beat this guy?" Have his opponents work on their conditioning and defense, have them _respect_ Reys unique abilities rather than dismissing him because he's small. If the wrestlers perceive Rey as a top contender, the fans will.

[goodhelmet]

EDIT: Delayed response to Some Guy

Also, Rudo reinforces my point.

 

 

I have to disagree with Some Guy in almost every way on this issue.

 

The goal of the champion is not to be a credible size or what have you. The goal is to be a drawing card for the company. That is more than what JBL has been or HHH for the last 3 years. Put it this wy... would you pay to see Rey fight for the title? Would you pay to see Rey defend the itle against Angle, HBK, Jericho, Benoit, Cena etc.? I would pay money to see Rey perform.

 

If you keep him away from the hosses, then there would be no need for a Mikey Whipwreck angle. It was just an example of what could be done to have him keep the belt or avoid jobbing too soon in his reign.

 

If you gave Rey a credible submission finisher such as the "7 seconds of Magic" that was displayed in the No Mercy videogame then he would have the cred. to take down anyone regardless of his size. Look at Gracie in shoot-fighting. No one in UFC discounted Gracie because of his size.

 

 

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of Rey as champion. He would be the perfect underdog and overachiever that fans could get behind AND maintain the growing Latino fan base that the Fed was focusing on when Eddy was on top. The idea that a guy has to "look" like a champ is old carny BS that people shouldn't buy into anymore. Foley didn't look like a typical champ but people got behind him. I didn't buy that Steamboat could beat anyone n the company when he was champ but he could beat Flair and that was what mattered. Looking at the JBL-Eddie matchup, I see no reason to think Eddie could take on JBL but there he was kicking JBL's rear across and around for nearly the entire match.

[Coffey]

At least in theory the fans will. It'd take a lot of time to get them to believe that. Because the fans have been led to believe otherwise for so long. Especially in WWE.

 

What move could Rey do to heavyweights to make it believable when he beats them? Certainly not the 6-1-9.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

I was thinking some roll-up finisher. A dragonrana perhaps. I dunno if Rey still has the ability to do it, though. Maybe a funky Lucha submission (edit: ah, I just read gh's post, I think a funky armbar would be cool as well)?

 

It would take some time to believe Rey would be an effective main eventer who other wrestlers would see as a threat. There would have to be a moment that changes him, and the introduction of a new move could do just that.

[Coffey]

...but why couldn't a guy like The Undertaker, or even an Angle, power out of it?

 

The finisher would be the tricky part.

 

Not only that, but I don't think you want the current crop of WWE main eventers trying to sell moves like Hurricanrana's and the like.

 

He'd be better off with something like a springboard legdrop.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

He doesn't have the weight to really convincingly end someone with a springboard leg drop... or any impact move.

 

Submissions, on the other hand, are all about leverage. If Rey gets a wrestler tired enough, then they wouldn't be able to power out of his submissions. They could work this into the psychology of his matches. Establish the move by having Rey get 6 or 7 wins with it (give it a name), then have Rey win a big match with it, THEN have someone be able to get out of it which forces Rey to go the extra mile and tire them out before applying the sub again for the win.

[Loss]

I agree that a submission is the way to go. Whatever finisher Gail Kim was using is open now that she's sadly no longer around.

[Coffey]

I could actually see a Six Second Magic type armbar working for Mysterio. Especially since a lot of his opponents would be able to support his weight and he could slap it on from a standing posistion.

[Loss]

Maybe a good project for one of us sometime would be to sim a match between Rey Misterio and the Undertaker with Rey going over convincingly. We could even make it a joint effort, and we'd probably be able to come up with some great ideas.

[Coffey]

Eh. Not a lot can be done with the current incarnation of The Undertaker. He doesn't lose to anything. It he was still Deadman Inc. it could've worked like the Jeff Hardy ladder match, only with Mysterio working his arm. That takes away the Chokeslam, Old School and Last Ride. Not to mention it'd set him up for the finisher.

[Loss]

That's enough to build a match around. The reason I suggested the Undertaker is because if we can come up with a decent Rey/Taker match, there's no reason Rey shouldn't be able to go over anyone in the company convincingly.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

There would have to be a chokeslam/armbar spot involved. But I wouldn't have it as a finish, but rather, early on as a move that has Taker worried and he may have to change his approach to the match. It also tweaks his arm abit. Perhaps a Last-Ride/Armbar spot as the finish. I think another cool spot would be to get Rey in a white mask and have him juice. Taker's changed strategy is to kill Rey with strikes. However, since Rey is small and quick, he -for the first 1/2 or 2/3rds of the match avoids them. Then Taker finally connects. He then does Soup Bones spot in the corner/ropes, single punch shots, big boot spots, that have Rey go down and almost out. Undertaker is amazed at how Rey can take shots like that and still get up. A spot where they are on the outside, Rey is against the post, Taker misses a punch and hits the steel, possibly breaking his (right) hand. He tries to use elbows instead, and a (right) elbow drop spot on the outside eliminates that. Rey could trip up his (right) shoulder into the steps, thus totally fucking up his right arm. Then you can have the Last Ride spot where goes up, changes position, and Taker falls into the armbar. If you want to protect Taker, you do the Tim Sylvia/Frank Mir spot of the ref stopping it because Takers arm breaks so the ref stops further damage from occuring, even though Taker never taps. This could be played up when Rey gets bloodied and Cole/Tazz wonder if the ref should stop it - as does the ref himself.

 

Actually, shit...

 

*At about 13 minutes in*

 

*Taker AGAIN decks Rey with a big right hand*

 

Tazz: I don't know how much more Rey can take of this.

 

*Rey blades and blood begins to flow from his mask*

 

Cole: Oh god, I think maybe... maybe the ref should look in to stopping this fight.

 

Tazz: As a wrestler, you hate when it happens, its one of the worst things that can happen do you... but it's also one of the best, because you'll live to fight another day. I, personally, as a friend of Rey Mysterio, think it should be stopped. As a wrestler though, no, let him win or let him lose on his own.

 

Cole: I know Taker doesn't want to do this to Rey, Taker said before this fight that he respected Reys abilities in the ring.

 

Tazz: But Taker is a killer. Almost 15 years in the WWE, he knows how to get it done, and he gets it done. No way will Taker let up.

 

*Rey, barely, gets up*

 

*Taker nails Rey again, this time a two punch combo that collapses Rey*

 

Cole: OH MY GOD STOP THE MATCH!

 

Tazz: I think that's enough for Rey.

 

*Taker tells the ref to count Rey down*

 

Cole: Taker, telling the referee to do a 10 count.

 

Tazz: It's a rarely used move in wrestling, but it is allowed.

 

Cole: Why would Taker do that?

 

Tazz: It's simple. Taker doesn't want to give Rey an opportunity to get in close for a fluke roll up -or worse- that submission move of his.

 

Cole: I don't think Rey is going to get up.

 

*Rey rolls to the outside*

 

Tazz: Rey couldn't get up, but he had enough sense to buy some time as he rolled out of the ring.

 

*Taker, slowly, follows Rey out of the ring.*

 

Cole: Taker, taking his time.

 

Tazz: He's been in there for 14 minutes so far, and has been wrestling at a high pace. A man his size would be huffing and puffing by now. And even someone in as tremendous condition as Taker has to be feelin a lil bit tired by now.

 

*Taker picks Rey up and stands him against the post.*

 

Cole: It looks like Taker is going to finish it right now.

 

Tazz: Somebody get a bucket of soapy water and a spounge, because Reys face is going to get splattered across this arena when Taker connects

 

*Rey falls down, Taker misses and breaks his hand*

 

Tazz: WOAH!

 

Cole: Rey Mysterio STILL HAS LIFE LEFT IN HIM!~

 

Tazz: I dunno if that was intentional, or instincts, or his legs just gave out, but that was a great thing Rey just did right there.

 

Cole: Taker looks hurt.

 

Tazz: Oh, that had to break his hand. Definitely. Those gloves can only protect so much, and the impact Taker hit that post with... definitely... broke his hand.

 

*Taker, angry, looks at Rey laying on the ground and drops an elbow.*

 

Tazz: Taker now is not giving Rey any time to recover and landed a bigtime elbow drop.

 

Cole: I think you were right Tazz, I think Reys legs gave out.. he didn't move out of the way of that punch on purpose.

 

*Taker stands up, looks out to the crowd, and does another one*

 

*Rey rolls out of the way*

 

Tazz: or maybe not! Rey Mysterio just rolled about 3 feet out of the way of that Elbow drop and Takers elbow has to be hurtin now too.

 

*Taker gets up a lil slower, a really pissed off look on his face.*

 

Cole: Taker is not happy. Rey, amazingly, is able to get to his feet.

 

Tazz: I think Reys move of self preservation just caused him his life.

 

*Taker rushes Rey (who is positioned near the steel post)*

 

*Rey does a trip takedown and Taker falls into the steel steps*

 

Cole: Oh my goodness! Taker, for the 3rd time, misses Rey with a big move.

 

Tazz: Takers arm must be messed up by now. His hand is broken, his elbow is injured, and now his shoulder just came crashing into the steel steps, courtesy of Rey Mysterio. He won't be able to throw many soupbones now.

 

Cole: And if give Rey an openning for his submission move.

 

Tazz: Good point, Cole. Hey, there's always a first time for everything.

 

*Rey walks up the steps and gets into the ring, the crowd cheers his recovery*

 

Cole: How come Rey didn't follow up on it?

 

Tazz: Right now all Rey can do is defend himself Cole, he needs to build a lot more energy up to be able to get on the offense.

[goodhelmet]

^ NICE!^

[Guest Some Guy]

EDIT: Delayed response to Some Guy

Also, Rudo reinforces my point.

 

 

I have to disagree with Some Guy in almost every way on this issue.

 

The goal of the champion is not to be a credible size or what have you. The goal is to be a drawing card for the company. That is more than what JBL has been or HHH for the last 3 years. Put it this wy... would you pay to see Rey fight for the title? Would you pay to see Rey defend the itle against Angle, HBK, Jericho, Benoit, Cena etc.? I would pay money to see Rey perform.

 

If you keep him away from the hosses, then there would be no need for a Mikey Whipwreck angle. It was just an example of what could be done to have him keep the belt or avoid jobbing too soon in his reign.

 

If you gave Rey a credible submission finisher such as the "7 seconds of Magic" that was displayed in the No Mercy videogame then he would have the cred. to take down anyone regardless of his size. Look at Gracie in shoot-fighting. No one in UFC discounted Gracie because of his size.

 

 

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of Rey as champion. He would be the perfect underdog and overachiever that fans could get behind AND maintain the growing Latino fan base that the Fed was focusing on when Eddy was on top. The idea that a guy has to "look" like a champ is old carny BS that people shouldn't buy into anymore. Foley didn't look like a typical champ but people got behind him. I didn't buy that Steamboat could beat anyone n the company when he was champ but he could beat Flair and that was what mattered. Looking at the JBL-Eddie matchup, I see no reason to think Eddie could take on JBL but there he was kicking JBL's rear across and around for nearly the entire match.

I'd like to see Rey vs. HBK, I've seen him wrestle Jericho, Benoit, and Angle a bunch of times already and have really very little interest in seeing Cena wrestle anybody. The thing with Rey is that I've seen him what he has to offer and I'm pretty bored with that style. I blame WCW for that, in that they signed a shit load of guys who all did the same stuff, albeit Rey did it better than most. And I didn't really like the Lucha style to begin with. There is very little substance or selling in the stuff I've seen, it's mostly an acrobatic display. To me highspots should be intergrated into a match, not be the match other wise they don't mean anything. Plus, that style has become dated, just like ECW style brawls and working a headlock for 15 minutes. Their are only so many Hurricanranas I can see before they become no different than a punch.

 

I've only seen the 7 second Magic move in the game, never in a match. So why wouldn't you just drop the guy on his head?

 

With Rey, the size desparity between he and the rest of the roster is so great that that it's very hard to take him seriously. It's not like with Taz where he was built up for years as the short guy who could kick the shit out of everybody, Rey has been pushed as being a small guy and has been tossed around and beaten by bigger guys so much that he is beyond the point of building up, IMO. Had they tried when he came into WWE then maybe, but I just can't see it now. I don't think that Taker would ever agree to the scenario Rudo laid out, either. He hasn't exactly shown a huge willingness to make stars at his expense.

[Slasher]

Why couldn't anyone bite down on Foley's finger when he did the claw? Element of surprise plus once the move is locked on, there's nothing much you can do but pass out. Have Rey's Six Seconds be like that. In theory people could drop him on his head, and it will likely be a spot in the future (should they go this route), but Rey has the speed to be in one place at one moment, then in the Six Seconds move quicker than you'd say "6-1-9!" and once it's locked in, the opponent should sell like they're being choked out or something, and they start buckling before collapsing.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

They can drop him on his head, but he can also move is head and they end up falling over.

[Guest Some Guy]

The Mandible Claw was a paralyzing move, or so went the story. It was pretty stupid.

 

This all could work, but I just don't see it.

[goodhelmet]

And I didn't really like the Lucha style to begin with.

And there is part of the problem in your resisting this possibility. You simply don't like lucha. I can respect that.

 

There is very little substance or selling in the stuff I've seen, it's mostly an acrobatic display. To me highspots should be intergrated into a match, not be the match other wise they don't mean anything.

You need to see more lucha... not just the 7 minute NITRO matches we were accustomed to.

 

Plus, that style has become dated, just like ECW style brawls and working a headlock for 15 minutes. Their are only so many Hurricanranas I can see before they become no different than a punch.

Eh, if Rey was a WWE champion, he wouldn't be working a traditional lucha match. He would be incorporating a lucha flavor into his matches that would be worked WWE style. Just the way it is. Plus, with most of the scenarios different posters have mentioned, it doesn't seem like you would be watching a bunch of lucha moves with no context.

 

I've only seen the 7 second Magic move in the game, never in a match. So why wouldn't you just drop the guy on his head?

The "6 (or 7) seconds of magic" was just an example of what could be done. Also, Low-Ki has done a variation of the move in ROH... just so you know.

 

Once again, I refer to the Royce gracie mindset... this little guy should not be underestimated. hell, film a few vignettes of Rey going to the Orient or Mexico or Brazil to advance his training. It would certainly be more believable than any other crap that has been thrown out on SD!

 

Rey has been pushed as being a small guy and has been tossed around and beaten by bigger guys so much that he is beyond the point of building up, IMO.

This still doesn't account for the fact that he is one of the most popular guys and would be someone I would be willing to bank on for putting asses in the seats if he was a featured player.