sek69 Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 So.......who saw it? Personally I think it was one of the most legit offensive things WWE has done. Having masked men obviously supposed to remind people of terrorists simulate a garrotting/beheading on a popular icon is just beyond the fucking pale for me. The fact that there was a terrorist attack the day it aired is just icing on the cake. Seeing five men in masks on their knees the same as in videos where people got their fucking heads sawed off made me seriously not want to watch WWE programming anymore. The fact that no one had the balls to speak up and say maybe terrorists are one line wrestling shouldn't cross is an embarrassment to the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 *Wonders if they'll settle Tiger Ali Singh's lawsuit by bringing him in as an Al Qaeda mastermind behind Hassan* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 To top it off, I made the mistake of reading TSM's thread on it only to see the retards there say "if it wasn't for the attack today, it wouldn't have been a big deal". Right, having guys re-enact beheading videos was only offensive because there happened to be an attack today. Fucking idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crucifixio Jones Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I said all I had to say about this to you via AIM tonight: The fact that someone's sick idea like this made it to my television screen is just crazy. I lost all respect for the biz and the boys a long time ago. Everything like this they do now, is just piling on. You would just think that common fuckin' sense would dictate that somewhere between the napkin and hiring five guys to play masked TERRORISTS SOMEONE outta the thousands that work for WWE would say, "Hey, this is really out there, not to mention disrespectful, terrorist attacks today or not. Maybe we shouldn't do this. Or, at the very least, let's find another way." If this were the early '80s, Hassan wouldn't be able to go out tonight. My mind boggles at the fact that there just seems to be no quality control or common sense at the helm of this publicly traded company that airs a nationally televised program. I see shit like that and all the stuff they've done in the past (i.e. Autin/Pillman's gun incident, HHH fucking a corpse, 'Taker crucifying Austin, etc) and 1. I wonder how that stuff even makes outta the 'bad idea' stage to actually being done and aired 2. I wonder why fans still watch. 'Taker being the respected lockerrom leader that he is could've got this squashed if he just had the balls enough to say something but judging from his stellar past track record of taking part, without question, in some of the most controversial or stupid angles in WWF history, he's a company man of the highest order and seemingly lacks the facilities to say "no" to anything. What a maroon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rob Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Could someone clearly explain what went down in the segment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I didn't make it to the end of the show. I was bored out of my mind and gave up around 9:20 or so. But I'm not surprised. This is the kind of bullshit they've been doing for the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Earlier in the show, Teddy Long made a match between Taker and Davari, and Hassan assured his manager that he'd "be rewarded". The match itself was a squash, but afterwards Hassan dropped to his knees in a prayer pose outside the ring and 5 guys with camo pants, black shirts, and black ski masks hit the ring from all sides and beat up Taker. One of the masked men choked out Taker with some sort of piano wire until his face was purple and he was doing that eyes-rolling-back thing he does. Hassan then got in the ring and the five masked guys got on their knees in a semi-circle looking very similar to those terrorist beheading videos while Hassan put taker in the Camel Clutch. *THEN* the masked men carried Davari (who was still was out cold selling the Tombstone) above their heads while the annoucers talked about him being a "martyr for the cause" and "getting his reward for his sacrifice" which added a layer of creepiness to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brian Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 That's shit just sounds kind of stupid and funny to me. Of course, I'm completely insensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I think the worst part about that is I really have to think about if it's the worst thing they've ever done. That's at least second on the list of worst things all time. Lita's rape thing from last summer is probably no.1 on the list. Though I have a feeling that Guerrero/Mysterio is going to be going in a really bad place too. Though I rank it pretty bad right now involving his "son" like that with all the recent kidnappings going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 It actually was just the usual WWE kind of stupid, there was just something about the masked guys making like the beheading videos just creeped me out like nothing WWE's done before. Plus having the annoucers talk about Davari being a "martyr for the cause" making it clear what they were trying to reference was just way out of bounds for a wrestling angle. People are trying to say it wasn't as offensive as Sgt Slaughter as an Iraqi, but Slaughter wasn't re-enacting Saddam's rape rooms in the middle of the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Slaughter's Iraq thing was no different than having evil Russians in your federation. It was a cartoon for the most part. Tonight's thing just doesn't serve a purpose. It's just Vince begging for some media attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweetMama Scaat Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Its odd, the WWE apparantly didnt think it was that the big of deal. They put up disclaimers throughout the broadcast that "after TODAYS attacks in London, parental discrestion is advised". So if it hadnt been for the terroists attacks, they wouldnt have thought the scene was offensive to anyone?...maybe they were stupid but not intentionally drawing attenion to themselves (like when they went out of there way to do Katie Vick, and then made sure everybody knew about it.) I think the WWE often does really dumb shit, but they dont realize its dumb. I never watched the beheading videos, I never understood the desire to do so. But, let me ask yall a question, do you think alot of people will draw comparisons to those and the Taker vs Terroists angle, just like you guys have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 If you watch the beheading videos, it's unmistakeable. I guess if you haven't seen them it might just look like another dumb but inoffensive WWE angle like millions before, but the fact that they took the time to re-enact that just sickened me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 What's most frustrating is that you'll never hear anyone employed by WWE admit that this was the wrong decision. They'll say the "Nothing is sacred" line and just keep going about their business. They have short memories and can't remember angles from last week, but their fans remember them, and this is bound to turn off some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I think WWE is forgetting wrestling is based around larger than life characters whom the audience can connect with and enjoy a couple of hours escapism watching. People don't want or need social issues addressed by a wrestling company and why they want to given the sham nature of the business is beyond me. Why emulate real life when your audience are trying to forget about their own by watching your show? I actually would like the PTC to cripple Vince right now for his fucking stupidity. Maybe one of his stock brokers will get blown up and he'll maybe realise what he's doing is bad for business and in really poor taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I'm with brian, it's stupid pet tricks. Katie Vick was more offensive than this. Chavo decrying his Mexican heritage was way, way more offensive than this angle. Hell, Trish acting like a dog was 10 times more offensive than this. I thought the martyr pose was great. Davari went out there and took one for the team in order for Hassan to hurt the Undertaker. He was the lamb being led to the slaughter but he accepted his fate. There's no way Hassan could hang with the Undertaker in a singles match. But, if he wears the Undertaker down and puts the fear of Allah into him, then you have some psychology and mind games going on leading up to their match. They have a beef now going into the #1 contender's match at GAB. The Undertaker now has a real purpose and reason to destroy Davari in their match. The payback should be sweet. I would have been *maybe* slightly bothered by the angle if Cole and Tazz had called them terrorists. That would have been dumb. As it stands, they're just goons in masks to me who gave the Undertaker one of the best beatings I have ever seen him take. He really did look like he was getting choked out. The bit at the end where all the guys were praying to Hassan was a nice touch. I'm really starting to like Hassan and last night he established himself as a serious threat. He took out the Undertaker in brutal fashion. That clubbing to the back the Undertaker took as he was fighting off the first two guys was an outstanding smash to the back. The dead man has fought 10 guys before but he went down when someone clocked him from behind. I liked that. What would have been really offensive to me was if the Undertaker would have risen up after his beating. That would have just been insulting to the intelligence to see him get back up after the beating he took. He's not so dead anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 That's ridiculous. Hassan's whole gimmick is that he's unfairly treated because he's Arab-American and everyone thinks he's a terrorist. HHH fucking a mannequin and Chavo becoming Whitey weren't nearly as offensive as this since they weren't meant to invoke images of real people being killed by terrorists. I thought the martyr pose was great. Like CJ said on AIM last night, I hope no one who's lost family members to terrorism are wrestling fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 So someone banging a mannequin until gunge flies out it's head, something I could imagine happening in a Crypt Keeper sketch, is more offensive than mocking the torture and death of real people at the hands of terrorists? BOLLOCKS. If two wrestlers can't interests an audience in their feud, they shouldn't feud. They should have to trivialise real events and deaths for the sake of a fucking wrestling feud. I don't know how many Muslims would be offended at the site of guys in ski masks worshipping a would be Arab guy for choking someone with wire. "Put the fear of Allah into him"... I don't even know where to start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 It's wrestling. Stereotypes have been the backbone for characters and angles since Frank Gotch tore up the mats. Kative Vick served no purpose. Trish the dog served no purpose other than to get Vince's rocks off. Chavo spitting on him being a Mexican, the self hate, is just as bad as Michael Jackson coloring his skin white or Jessica Biels trying to look asian. Goons in masks attacking the Undertaker served a purpose. The timing of the beatdown was unplanned. The show was taped on Tuesday and the attack occurred on Wednesday. The company, before the match, announced on their screen crawler, that, due to the attacks, parental discresion should be advised as graphic material would be shown. We knew something bad was going to happen and yet you all watched and are now bitching about it. Cripes guys, read your posts. They were never called terrorists and, thankfully, Vince has yet to have one of his announcers call Hassan himself a terrorist or the next Osama. That would have been a tad disturbing more of an insult to the intelligence. Plus, it could also get the WWE heat in the Middle East if they really pushed the "OMG TERRORISTS!" angle. Instead, Hassan's a man from the Middle East who is tired of Americans treading all over him, his people and his land and now he's going to do something about it. You might not agree with him or his actions but last night he did something big and got people to watch. He's a bad, bad man and I thought the goons was the icing on the cake. No one here has any excuse for being outraged since we all knew what was going to happen ahead of time. The spoilers were out Tuesday night and the attacks went down Wednesday morning, US time. I was morbidly curious to see if the WWE was going to all out for this and have the attackers dressed up in Shikah gear with dynamite strapped to their waists but that didn't happen. If the families of the people that died in 9/11 get bent out of shape over this then they need to lighten up. The terrorists have won if angles the WWE is pulling are pissing people off. Laugh it off or change the channel. Or better yet, don't watch the WWE then. I can't watch 9/11 footage anymore. Seeing the planes flying into the towers and blowing them up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over can really fuck someone up. I only needed to see the planes hitting the building once for it all to set in. I didn't need nor want to watch that debacle go down again. If some people need to watch that repeatedly to feel "inspired" or be able to properly reflect on what happened then that is something they need to work out. I did not want to become disensitized to the attacks. But, perhaps I have. I haven't seen any pictures or footage of 9/11 in a long time and I would like to keep it that way. But at the same time, I don't feel as worked up about the attacks as I use too. Media overload. Also, I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to let myself become like the mom on South Park after the 9/11 attacks happened. I will *always* remember what happened on 9/11 and can never forget about it. No one should forget about it. But, to get outraged over an angle that the WWE tossed out before the actual bombings happened in the UK is ridiculous. I get angry with wrestling when my intelligence is insulted, not when the WWE tries to play the Daily Show with world events. When it's clear the WWE is trying to garner media whore attention, like the marriage of Billy & Chuck, which they took out *ads* for ahead of time, that's when I'll shake my head in disgust. But, this angle with Hassan is a joke to me when taken into a serious "feel for the families of 9/11" because I would never try to connect wrestling to the serious events that plague our world. That would be the real insult to the deceased I feel. The only time I've ever felt genuinely offended by WWE was when it looked as if DX was going to have a gang bang with an uncooperating Stephanie McMahon in one of the locker rooms at the end of a RAW. Rape is something I'll never be okay with watching but to see it nearly played out in the WWE, or at least insinuated, was tough to watch. HHH raping Steph on their wedding night was disturbing but when she revealed she was on board with Hunter, and it was all an elaborate rouse to hurt her father, I let it slide with HHH "consumating" the marriage with a drugged up Steph. Oh yeah, the 2nd time I've felt genuinely offended by the WWE was when Steph compared her dad's steroid trial with the 9/11 attacks. That was offensive to me. Hassan, without a mention of the word 9/11 or "terrorist", during his beatdown on the Undertaker was not offensive to me. 2 times. In the 15 + years I have been watching the WWE, I've only felt genuinely offended twice. That's two times more than I really should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 This is my top 10 list of most offensive things the WWF has done. Here's my top 10: 1. Lita rape angle. You NEVER TURN A RAPIST FACE 2. Katie Vick 3. The whole thing from last night 4. Saba Simba. It's just a perfect example of how the WWF handles black wrestlers. 5. Austin/Pillman gun 6. Austin stunning Kiebler 7. crucifying Austin 8. HHH's "your people" line and then winning the match. 9. Trish's dog stuff around X-7 10. The incest undertones with Vince/Steph over the years. Honorable mentions: Chavo's recent denouncing his heritage, the Mexicools, the Satanic ritual on Mideon, McMahon drugging Linda, Michaels picking his nose with the Canadian flag, passing Chyna off as a woman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I guess noone watched the entire Booker T-Kurt Angle "I'm going to violate your wife" storyline. I'll repsond more to Sass's comments later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Ah, forgot that one. I should've put that in honorable mentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Are you upset with me helmet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Sass's logic is the same used to say Austin wasn't really being crucified, it was a SYMBOL, not a cross, you know. It just happened to look very crosslike and meant to invoke the idea of someone being crucified, but since they never called it a cross that means the people who thought such were just being oversensitive. They plainly meant to invoke images of real people being killed, which I think pushes it above rape. We knew something bad was going to happen and yet you all watched and are now bitching about it. Cripes guys, read your posts. We read taping reports, where how bad something is reported is based on the guy filing the report. I didn't make any posts on it until I saw it for myself. Maybe you finalize your opinons on secondhand info, but I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Right, Sek. I watched the entire show last night. I thought it was better than RAW this week. I've been watching the shows on a regular basis for about two months since I was intrigued to see who would get traded and switched on shows. It was the Undertaker's symbol that Austin got crucified with. Not an actual cross. The Undertaker had that symbol since his costume change in '96. I didn't get offended but I know some devoted Christians that were offended. Not because of the crucifying but because of how dumb and hokey the whole thing looked. I thought it was hokey too but it still served the purpose of playing mind games with Austin. No, the real offense was when the Undertaker was turned into a stalker and called "Mark" in order to get him to stop believing his gimmick. That was and still is one of the dumbest things Russo did to one of his top workers when he was a booker. That whole deal, along with recruiting the Big Show to become his apprentice in the summer, was the real insult to my intelligence. Again, drawing a correlation between the two things, Austin's crucifixation and Christ's, is the real insult, not the dumb wrasslin angle itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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