W2BTD Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/02/11/new-japan-new-beginning-osaka-211-review/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sometimes I just hate the internet. I'm sure I would have enjoyed Ishii/Naito a little more had I not already read people rate it from anywhere between five and ten million stars. But I did, so all I ended up thinking when it was over was "that wasn't ten million stars." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I though Naito/Ishii had a lot of really cool stuff in the homestretch and I liked the second half of the match a lot. The beginning stuff though I thought ranged from boring to bad and there were some awkward moments throughout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sometimes I just hate the internet. I'm sure I would have enjoyed Ishii/Naito a little more had I not already read people rate it from anywhere between five and ten million stars. But I did, so all I ended up thinking when it was over was "that wasn't ten million stars." My goal from 2014 is to watch a NJPW show in real time, with no running commentary via boards or twitter open, just to see if it would change the viewing experience at all to me. I still haven't seen Naito v. Ishii, but both sides of this have me nervous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sometimes I just hate the internet. I'm sure I would have enjoyed Ishii/Naito a little more had I not already read people rate it from anywhere between five and ten million stars. But I did, so all I ended up thinking when it was over was "that wasn't ten million stars." I get that. I thought it was ****3/4 on my own while avoiding all the message boards and twitter. I love that match, but I know that if I saw the hype first I'd probably be let down. Another good review by Joe, though. Thanks for always being so prompt with these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I normally write these reviews while i'm watching live, to shield myself from other opinions. I could not stay awake during this show, and watched the final three matches when I woke up the next morning. When I looked around the internet after writing the review, I was pretty surprised to see others loved Ishii/Naito as much as I did. Initially I had Ishii/Naito at ****3/4 in my notes, but when doing the write up I bumped it to five because despite the (very) minor gripes I had the bottom line is that was the most fun I had watching wrestling in a long time, probably since the great Dragon Gate tag from Kobe World. This shit is supposed to be fun, and sometimes we lose sight of that. This match had me popping off my couch, feeling real emotion, and loving life for 20 minutes. Five stars. I never ever like a match as much as other people do when it's hyped before I watch it. Ever. My expectations always kill it for me. So I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheGreatPuma Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Man alive, I had a blast watching Naito vs Ishii. Freaking incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 My biggest issue with naito vs. Ishii was that Ishii came back from everything too quick. I thought the opening wasn't exceptional, but at least Naito was focusing on the neck. Things opened up for a bit and then Naito hit a great german and I was waiting on him to dominate for a while. Instead we get the awkward top rope spot and Ishii is pretty much back on top within two minutes. The home stretch had some cool stuff but Ishii kicking out of a urnage at a 1 count really negates any damage done to the neck and makes the match seem kind of pointless. Match made me realize how big a disconnect I have from New Japan stuff as even something like Invasion Attack which I don't have at *****, I still liked a good bit. i don't know if I would rank this match above *** and liked Togo vs. Sasuke (also a match with flaws) more than this when I watched them back to back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Just watched Naito v. Ishii. I liked it better than Chad, but not as much as Joe. Ishii is my favorite guy in Japan at this point, if you set aside random guys who rarely make tape and/or are semi-retired (Fujiwara, Tajiri, Otsuka) so if there is a guy in Japan I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to, it's problem going to be him. Having said that I had no problem with his selling in this at all. In fact I thought Ishii's selling - and more amazingly Naito's - ranged from pretty good to great for most of the match. I kind of have to laugh at the one count comment, because while I am generally not a fan of the spot, this was nowhere near as egregious as Backlund's one count gimmick that Jerry gets ragged on for pointing out, as Ishii actually continued to sell after he broke out of the cover. I thought the pacing was very good. One of the things that tends to annoy me about NJPW is that they have lots of segments where the speed or flow of a match will increase dramatically, then slow back down, then increase even more. It's hard to articulate but a lot of the most heavily pimped matches don't have a natural sense of escalation to me at all. This match absolutely had a sense of escalation to it, and more importantly the guys allowed the big moments, moves and exchanges to sink in. The facial of Naito after the big headbutt down the stretch was really good, and will probably stand out for me when I think back on this match. Most of the spots in the match had very good impact and felt significant, though I didn't care for some of the counter exchanges. In fact I thought some of them were pretty cringeworthy, and in at least one case there was a spot executed where I couldn't even tell who was the recipient of the move which is one of my biggest pet peeves in wrestling. Having said that, a lot of that stuff felt lie foreshadowing for later in the match, and most importantly the stuff that looked like a dance routine wasn't a part of the actual finish. I did think the match probably had too much meat to it. That's an odd criticism, and one that is obviously entirely about my own bias', especially when you consider the fact that the crowd was rabid for everything down the stretch. Having said that, I really don't know that any of the back and fourth spots after the top rope superplex were really needed. It never quite went off the cliff into the point where I thought the match became about collecting near falls, and the execution and pacing of the spots that followed were pretty good (the aforementioned headbutt bit included), but I thought the superplex felt like a true transition moment, and I feel like the finish would have felt even more definitive if it had come after that. That's not really a major criticism though, just a preference as I like to see matches built around clear runs of momentum. I'm not really a star rating guy anymore and haven't been in years so I don't know about that. This match definitely had a big match feel, the crowd was amped for it, and I think it did wonders for the Never belt and Ishii. I still don't know how much faith the company really has in the guy because he wasn't on the Dome show, but he's clearly really over, and this match had the sort of energy and enthusiasm for it that the Okada v. Naito match from Korakuen Hall a few years ago had which is a good sign. This isn't my MOTY so far, but I don't think it's an odd pick either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I really dug Okada vs. Goto and think it is up there with Okada vs. Naito as the best Japanese stuff I have seen so far this year. I thought that match was smartly worked in the way they presented both competitors. Goto had no shot of winning the belt so they were in a funky position where you don't want to bury Goto for good but also don't want to weaken Okada in any way by having him get his ass kicked and be in grave danger vs. someone like Goto. They worked the match to overcome these limitations. Goto was able to hit a ton of high impact moves and even utilize some top rope assisted moves but they continued to show how resourceful Okada can be by him countering the clothesline with a dropkick. The final front dropkick he gives Goto may be one of the most beautiful dropkicks in wrestling history and turned the tide of the match for good. I also liked how after that sequence Okada hit a tombstone and then immediately got the Rainmaker for the win. I think he only went for the rainmaker once earlier in the match which alleviated some of the spots I hate where he is constantly going for it and they have to dance and counter around each other. Great match overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 It's funny how a lot of you guys don't like the Rainmaker counters. I can watch those counters all day long, and to me that's part of what makes the move so awesome. It's a protected move that equals instant death, and I absolutely love the sequences where he goes for it and there is a wild chain of counters. I love seeing the different kinds of counters different guys come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 They're pretty hit a miss for me. The main problem comes from when the counters literally do look like square dancing when Okada or his opponent obviously aims way over the head and does a little leap the the guy "ducking" hardly tucks his head. This usually happens in the Tanahashi matches and it looks awful. When done well I like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 They're pretty hit a miss for me. The main problem comes from when the counters literally do look like square dancing when Okada or his opponent obviously aims way over the head and does a little leap the the guy "ducking" hardly tucks his head. This usually happens in the Tanahashi matches and it looks awful. When done well I like them. I generally like the rainmaker counters. I usually like them a lot. But when of my biggest peeves is a guy who doesn't duck far enough and the thrower has to aim at a place that would never hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Maybe I'm not paying that close attention, but I haven't noticed Okada ever throw them so wildly out of range that the counters look ridiculous. They're usually well timed and chained together and like W2BTD noted, the move is over like death so whether its hit or not matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I haven't noticed Okada do it either. I recently watched the Morishima/KENTA GHC title change from January and it happens 2-3 times. Completely kills the mood for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I haven't noticed Okada do it either. I recently watched the Morishima/KENTA GHC title change from January and it happens 2-3 times. Completely kills the mood for me. Anything Morishima ever does that doesn't involve Bryan Danielson completely kills the mood for me. That tub of goo is the only major puro star that I actively avoid watching unless it's a big title switch and I have to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I actually liked that match a fair amount. His best work is definitely with Danielson IMO, but yeah, him whipping his arm to where it would barely have nicked an unmoved KENTA was bad. Make the other guy work for it, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I actually liked that match a fair amount. His best work is definitely with Danielson IMO, but yeah, him whipping his arm to where it would barely have nicked an unmoved KENTA was bad. Make the other guy work for it, I suppose. I haven't seen the Morishima title win yet, but man was I disappointed in the KENTA title win from Morishima a year earlier. I love KENTA and waited for that moment for years, and that match was flat as a pancake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 They're pretty hit a miss for me. The main problem comes from when the counters literally do look like square dancing when Okada or his opponent obviously aims way over the head and does a little leap the the guy "ducking" hardly tucks his head. This usually happens in the Tanahashi matches and it looks awful. When done well I like them. This echos my thoughts, the counters to Goto's clotheslines in this match vs. Okada looked natural. At times the Okada counters can come off like a dance routine and it burns me out. I love the move and how protected it is and also greatly enjoy the work opponents do on Okada's arm even though I thought switching that up mostly with Goto's strategy here was a smart change of pace. One little tidbit that hurts other matches for me that this one didn't fall into. Okada is overall my favorite guy in Japan right now with Ishii and Nakamura occupying the #2 and #3 spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Naito vs. Ishii was okay. If you're going to base the start of the match around strike exchanges, you should probably make them look like they're connecting or not do them at all, but weak strikes are prevalent throughout New Japan. At least the headbutts at the end looked ok. I didn't have much of a problem with the layout except for the fact that every New Japan match has the same sort of arc. Maybe it sounds odd, but surely not every match can go the distance like that? You don't see epic games every time out in sports. It would be better if they saved the big match structure for the big matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.