Big Sexy sounds off

[Loss]

From the Torch:

 

Pro Wrestling Torch is well-known for featuring the best insider interviews in pro wrestling. Whether it's been The Rock, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, Mick Foley, Bill Goldberg, Vince Russo, Jim Ross, Paul Heyman, Eric Bischoff, Sean Waltman, Raven, Jesse Ventura, or many other major names, the longest, most in-depth (and sometimes only) insider interviews of their careers have been "Torch Talks" with Torch editor Wade Keller.

 

Next week we begin a monumental "Torch Talk" series in the Torch Newsletter (available to VIP members exclusively online or in the paper edition) with Kevin Nash, one of the most influential, controversial figures in pro wrestling over the last 15 years.

 

For subscription information, CLICK HERE.

 

This interview conducted last night, which lasts longer than six hours (our longest Torch Talk ever) spans his entire career, virtually every major situation he was involved in, his thoughts on almost every major name in the industry (since he's crossed paths with nearly all of them), and philosophical subjects regarding what works and doesn't work in pro wrestling.

 

He defends himself against many criticisms over the years. He talks about what he thought he was good at and what he got a bad rap for - but also where criticism was deserved and where mistakes were made.

 

He provides in-depth personal insight into what makes various key players in wrestling tick. Few wrestlers have ever been closer to either Vince McMahon or Eric Bischoff than Nash - and he was tight with both of them for years at a time. He talks at length about each of them, with various specific anecdotes that provide insight into their motivations and personalities.

 

He talks about his experiences with Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Goldberg, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Jarrett, Bret Hart, Brock Lesnar, and more.

 

He talks about drug use and partying in wrestling. He talks about friends of his who have died - and who came close but are still alive. What he thinks went wrong. What he thinks needs to be done about it and who is responsible.

 

He gives his surprising perspective on the Bret Hart Survivor Series Swerve.

 

He talks about the NWO, and who doesn't get nearly enough credit for the concept.

 

He reveals how much money he earned at almost every stage of his career.

 

He talks about when he found out that Hulk Hogan was joining the NWO and what his reaction was when he found out.

 

He talks about telling Vince McMahon he was leaving the WWF to jump to WCW and how Vince McMahon reacted.

 

He talks about TNA, his current frustrations, and his probable future.

 

He talks about his biggest matches and explains in several cases the planning that went into them.

 

He talks about The Clique, and addresses the controversies that caused key opposing forces within the WWF to threaten a mutiny if Vince McMahon didn't break them up.

 

He talks about the dynamic between Stephanie and Shane McMahon.

 

He talks about his run as WCW booker, the decision to have him end Goldberg's winning streak, what was actually planned, and why it didn't happen.

 

He talks about the sale of WCW to the WWF, and what the plans were if Eric Bischoff had succeeded in purchasing WCW instead.

 

He says what he thinks were and weren't the key reasons for WCW's demise.

 

He talks about his last run in WWE, why he is unhappy with it for a number of reasons, but why it was worth it.

 

And much, much more.

This should be very interesting. Nash interviews, delusional as they can be, always provide a few laughs. I'm considering renewing my Torch subscription long enough to catch all the installments of this one. If I do, I'll be posting them all here at NMB so we can pick his words apart.

 

[goodhelmet]

He reveals how much money he earned at almost every stage of his career.

This I gotta hear.

[Marty]

I remember back in the day when he said how he felt Montreal was a work. Gotta be interesting to see what he says now.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

I've said it once, but I'll say it again; Kevin Nash, fuck you, and the horse you rode in on, you cancerous sack of filthy human scum.

 

I was considering getting an online-only sub to the Torch, but I'll pass if this is the kind of exclusive content I'd be getting. If I wanted to be confronted by a towering sack of shit in the morning, I'd look down before I flush.

[Guest Flyboy]

If I wanted to be confronted by a towering sack of shit in the morning, I'd look down before I flush.

You mean you don't? ... You're not human.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

I got an e-mail from the Torch over the weekend, telling me about this Talk and practically begging me to take out some sort of subscription with them so I could read the Kevin Nash interview.

 

I was considering replying to Wade, telling him that I was going to actually do that, but this Kevin Nash interview made me decide not to.

 

 

Pay money to hear what Kevin Nash has to say ? I'd rather walk up to New Jack and tell him that D-Von Dudley owns his ass.

[Loss]

Damn, I wish I wasn't broke, because I'd really like to hear this:

 

A 13 minute excerpt of the Kevin Nash "Torch Talk" has just been posted online exclusively for Torch VIP members. This is just a random segment taken from the six-hour interview which conveys exactly how packed with fascinating insight into the pro wrestling industry this interview is. In this 13 minute segment, Nash addresses:

 

-Why he coined the term "Vanilla Midgets" for wrestlers such as Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko, how he feels about it today, and interaction he had with Eric Bischoff about those wrestlers.

 

-Does Rey Mysterio qualify as a Vanilla Midget in Nash's opinion.

 

-Nash's theory on what are the two main reasons someone gets over or has no chance to get over, and explains how that criteria applies to Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Batista, Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, and Randy Orton.

 

-Nash's opinion on whether WCW fell to the WWF in great part because of his failure and the failure of other bookers to rotate fresh names to the top of cards.

 

-Nash explains what he believes is the primary reason Chris Jericho doesn't get more of a push. It's a reason not expressed before and adds some perspective to his situation.

 

-A very blunt answer regarding how much recreational drug usage contributed to the demise of WCW.

 

-Nash answers the much debated question of whether guaranteed contracts contributed to the demise of WCW, and his opinion on this is not wishy-washy and will surprise some people.

 

-What Nash wanted to do in the WWF during his final run and who he wanted to be paired with.

The Torch just posted it today in the VIP section as an audio file. We need to find someone with a subscription who is willing to share all of this stuff.

[Guest Some Guy]

-Nash's theory on what are the two main reasons someone gets over or has no chance to get over, and explains how that criteria applies to Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Batista, Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, and Randy Orton.

Shouldn't someone who actually got over be comenting on that? Nash got good pops at various times in his career but he never drew any money on his own.

 

I do want someone to post the transcript though. It'll probably be fun to dissect his bullshit and I like "shoot" interviews.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

I'm bored, so:

 

Kevin Nash, fuck you, fuck your overhyped career, fuck your overblown ability, fuck your shitty booking that sent WCW into a tailspin, fuck your ego, fuck everything about you, and fuck you for being the worst drawing WWF Champion in history.

[Loss]

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 1

Original Headline: Torch Talk: Kevin Nash's hopes and frustrations with TNA so far

Originally Published: April 2, 2005

Torch Newsletter #855

 

Kevin Nash was one of the key figures in what is regarded by many as the most successful wrestling angle of all-time - the Outsiders invasion of WCW and the formation of the New World Order. He also is considered one of the main guilty parties in the downfall of WCW and its flagship program Nitro on TNT. His career began in 1989 and has included him being a joke of a character in opening matches as Oz to main events at Madison Square Garden with the WWE Title, and later a top heel during the hottest run in wrestling history. Now he wrestles for TNA and has done a number of acting roles including a supporting role in the upcoming movie "The Longest Yard."

 

This "Torch Talk" series is derived from a six-hour interview with Nash conducted March 24. It's an interview many people thought they'd never read considering how harsh this publication had been in covering his career over the years, yet he sat down and answered every question without any restrictions on time or subject matter. During it, Nash talks about virtually major person he's known and every major incident he's been involved in during his sixteen year career.

 

Pro Wrestling Torch #855 (cover dated 04-02-05)

Known for being opinionated and outspoken, he pulls no punches as he talks about his friends and enemies. He also defends himself against criticism he's received over the years for his ring work and behind the scenes politicking and influence. He also often accepts blame and fault. In this first installment, he discusses why he joined TNA this late in his career, and then begins talking about how he got started in pro wrestling in the first place.

 

Wade Keller: Why did you agree to work for TNA? Certainly with the millions you've made working for WCW and the WWF, along with your rep for being a good steward of your earnings, and all of the injuries you've been through, at first glance it seems like wrestling for TNA is something that wouldn't be worth your while.

 

Kevin Nash: Jeff (Jarrett) is a good friend of mine. When I was finishing up my deal with Turner, he came to me and talked about working for them. I just told him, "I've got to go to New York. I?ve got to do this." So I kind of left him high and dry. I think he was kind of hurt by the fact that I didn't go and try to help him get this thing off the ground. He's a friend, he's a good friend. When he called me they were doing it in Nashville and I just didn't want to fly. I don't need the money anymore. I mean, my ego is fine with wrestling. When I first got into the back of a car, the first trip I ever made was with Sid, Dutch Mantel, the Iron Sheik, and myself. That was my first trip. And I've got the rental car. I'm picking up Sid. I smell pot in the back seat. I look back there and there's the Iron Sheik smoking a joint. (Imitating Sheik): "Ah, baby, this is hot sh--. Who's the big jabroni?" I said, "I'm not a jabroni, Sheik." He said, "Of course you're not, I'm not talking about you." (laughs) That's my first road trip. That night we partied a little bit and we're driving and that's when you'd drive 250 every night to the next town. Dutch said to me, "Nash, what do you want out of your career?" I said, "I just want someone, somewhere down the line, some guy in the car say, ?You know, Nash wasn't a bad worker.'" That's all I wanted. And I think anybody that's been out there (in the ring) with me can't say "he sucks." I'm not bad. I'm not great. I'm not bad. Am I limited? F--- yeah. Do I know my limitations? Yeah.

 

Keller: So it?s the twilight of your career and you've decided you can contribute to TNA. What can TNA contribute to the industry at this point?

 

Nash: The biggest problem is wrestling's stock is in such a down mode right now. Wrestling's not cool. So hopefully it can stay alive until that next hump comes.

 

Keller: Raw's doing 4.0s. At least in that category, it's not too far off from the peak. It's not 2.7, it's not 2.2.

 

Nash: And the cable audience is much bigger now than years ago. And I look at it and say from a standpoint of the business in general, there's not that buzz. Wrestling goes through periods where it becomes pretty hot. I hope TNA can stay around until it becomes hot and somebody picks it up.

 

Keller: Paul Heyman took ECW at a very low point in wrestling and because of what he did, he made it work because he had a new concept. I don't see that with TNA. I don't see that TNA has a grassroots inspiration to bring wrestling into a new age with a new concept. Instead, it seems to be recycling old ideas along with a mix of the pretty good X Division and that type of thing. Is that enough for it survive?

 

Nash: No. I think that's the biggest problem it has right now. It's not an alternative because it's not more cutting edge than what's on the other program. I realized the other day that they can't show cleavage at 4 o'clock on Fox Sports Net, so you are really limited in what you can run storyline-wise and violence-wise. You're in a real sh-- timeslot. But, the first thing I would do if I were to be involved in any part of the creative is to see what are our parameters. I'd ask that all the time. Back in WCW when I was booker, I'd have the standards and practices guy come in and he'd say, "No, no, no." Then I'd try to figure out how to outsmart the guy and get the sh-- in. I'd say, "How about this?" He'd say, "That'll work." But that's the whole thing with TNA. I don't know what their parameters are.

 

Just the last couple of weeks it's gotten to the point where I went, "This doesn't work for me and I really don't need the money." The 81 mile drive is getting really long and it ain't working. I told Jeff last week, "I don't know how much longer I'm going to do this." Billy (Gunn) grabbed my leg and turned my foot when he rammed me off the pole and my shin hit the f--in' pole and it's all infected now. I've got a bone infection. I'm on antibiotics and all this other sh--. I'm 45, and I'll be 46 in July. I got five f---in' grand for the last PPV. I could pretty much sit at home and say, "F--- this." It's not worth it. I had my match with Jeff. The fans, I think, went, "Wow, he's still got a little bit left in the gas tank." The thing was, they don't understand if they watch it back, I got you! It was smoke and mirrors. (Jeff) created all the movement and I sold my ass off and we ran every f---in' obstacle we could. We used run-ins and everything we could possibly throw in.

 

I had asked (Jeff) if I could have a couple of his matches on DVD that he had done lately against Monty and a couple of the other guys. He asked if he could get my Badd Blood and my match with Shawn (Michaels) in Omaha. He had those on DVD and I had his matches. We sat down and went, "What do you see?" I looked at him and said, "What the f---. I've got a legal pad right here. I've written down every f---in' prop we could use and I had them on one side of the page and on the other side were all of the human bodies we could use." He goes, "Well, what've you got?" And we just took all of those pieces and plugged them into a match and that's what we did. It was the same thing with Billy. I can get 45 minutes out of a screwdriver! (laughs) I don't think anyone's ever done that before.

 

Keller: So are you announcing you've given your notice? Are you announcing you're thinking of it? What's the bottom line of this?

 

Nash: I don't know if I'll be at the next TV right now. It's not fun. If it's not fun, then I don't need to do it.

 

Keller: If you had booking influence or control, could you make it fun?

 

Nash: I don't know. That's a huge commitment to make. Now you're basically saying, Lee Iacocca sucks and I'm going to put out a car that's going to be a World Car. I don't know since I haven't been around and haven't pushed those buttons, I don't know if the machine can do that. I've got stuff going on in Hollywood to consider. My agent earlier today told me I'm good in "The Longest Yard" and I'm going to get other work (in Hollywood). He said, "You stand out in it. You're going to get work off of it." Okay, fine, great. I just finished another movie about two months ago. That's three in all. I've been able to get steady work and do parts here and there. I've got one in April. I've got another probably in September. It's a scene here, a scene there, but I mean, I'm working acting-wise and that's really fulfilling. That's nice. It's not at the level that Duane (Johnson, The Rock) is doing, thank God, so I can still live my life and not worry about my kid being snatched. I look at the fame a lot of these guys have and I just think, "I don't know if I want that." I do like to be able to go to the rental car place and get a premium upgrade on a luxury model (because I'm recognized). That's good enough for me [laughs]. Anything more than that, I don't need. I also like getting a two bedroom for the one bedroom price at the Sheraton. That's fine with me.

 

Keller: You are announced for the next PPV main event. Is that at least an almost-for-sure commitment?

 

Nash: No. It's not. Because to me, it's? I mean, I'm 0-5. Four of those were with Dusty (Rhodes) booking. I think in that time his son is 5-0. It gets to the point where, you know, I'm not a mark, but I can't work for a company that books matches, but doesn't book finishes ? If you saw the booking of Trytan vs. Monty Brown, his booking is still cutting edge [laughs]. Mother f---, I saw that sh-- that night and I went, "You know what, I don't care what (Christopher) Daniels and A.J. (Styles) do after it, it's not going to pull this pay-per-view out. That is a f--in' back and to the left Kennedy head-shot where it's the emergency room and we're just going to make you comfortable until you die - because it didn't matter what happened after that, let alone our f---ed up finish and everything else that happened.

 

Keller: With Trytan, it was a gimmick with a lot of hype, but nothing beyond that.

 

Nash: The thing with him is this. This is my whole thing. You can print this or not print this. If I was booking that whole show, you know that Monty is going to turn at the end of the night, which nobody was smarted up to.

 

Keller: Including Monty?

 

Nash: Monty knew. But nobody else was smartened up. It was one of those "let's work the boys" things that always gets so over with the boys. Yeah, work us, mother f---er. So, it's like, because if they would have told me this ahead of time, I could have f--in' helped the situation. So if Monty's gonna turn, then why doesn't Trytan beat Monty in 30 seconds? All right. So you're at home going, "Mother f---er! That big dude beat Monty!" So now he spears Dallas Page in the finish and you say to yourself, "Well, f--, did he do that because he got beat in 30 seconds? Why did he do that?" And Monty becomes Sting. Monty becomes an enigma. You don't come out the next Tuesday and go "Ha! Ha! Ha! Monty was in my corner" and then point to your head like you're smart. F---, what are we, back in Memphis? I'm waiting for Dundee to f---in' take me and give me a f---in' bulldog. I mean, what the f---? Where are we at? We're doing rural wrestling and we're on Fox Sports Net. We're in the 27 largest metropolitan areas and that's it. We should be doing urban wrestling. We're doing rural. Dusty sits in the back of a pick-up truck with hay bails. Hey, Dusty, quick clue. A little something from me to you. Become Fat Joe, have a couple of black bi---es, and be in an Escalade. then we'll do a number (a high rating). What the f--'s going on? I'm 46 years old and I'm the hippest guy in the room. What the f--- is that?

 

Keller: The hipness of TNA is a major issue with them and always has been. They seem oblivious to it, though.

 

Nash: I mean, my whole thing has always been this. All right, I'll talk to guys. I was watching BET the other day. Who watches BET? Well, I do, because they got really raw underground rap guys who come on there. You can get some really incredible ideas. There's a magazine called Urb. It's an urban magazine. Nobody reads that magazine. I get script to it. I read it. There are so many things in so many magazines. When was the last time these guys watched Real Life, or (paid attention to pop culture). "I don't watch that sh--," they say. You know why? Once again it's because you're in the wrestling bubble. You don't understand. Right now, they're doing the thing with Batista. Batista's starting to pose like (famous bodybuilder) Frank Zane. I told Vince (McMahon) when I was there a long time ago, you've got to realize that in this culture that we're in, the two biggest babyfaces are a crooked cop on "The Shield" (an FX cop show) and Tony Soprano (on HBO's "The Sopranos"). Those are the babyfaces in our society. Anything that isn't near that, f--- it. That's it. Those are your babyfaces. And the heel is Glen Close. She comes in to control the f---in' corrupt cop and she's a f---in' heel. There's your society. That's what we've got to book with. That's the norms we've got to go with. I've got people telling me, "I wish they'd pull the plug on this f---in' broad and shut the f--- up, I'm tired of it." There's no humanity left in this world. To me, this is awfully surreal with this whole situation so close to Easter. It's pretty weird. She should be dead by now. If you didn't give me water for six days, I'd die. Why isn't this lady dead. Maybe you should put the deal back in.

 

Okay, back to the point. If you knew you were turning Monty heel at the end of the night, why wouldn't you let the big kid kill him in 30 seconds? Let Monty hit Page and let him be an enigma. Why did he do it? Did he do it because he got beat? That way it elevates the kid, the kid can go on a tear, you can do the Goldberg thing with him and protect him, because there's nowhere for guys to work anymore. There was no thought put into it. He's a good kid and now he's f---ed. Now he's Oz. I felt that. I've been there. When you've been there as a big guy and Monty's telling you to throw chops and his chops are the sh--s because you don't throw chops, it's a mess. He came back and I asked him, "What was up with those chops?" He said, "Well, Monty called them." I said, "F---, when I worked with him, I would have called back ?dropdown and blow me if you're going to do what the f-- I call.' You've got to protect yourself, dog." To me, the only way that guy can get over is if a guy like either (Kevin) Sullivan or somebody comes in and says [imitating Sullivan]: "Brotha! I need to get you over!" You need somebody who's demonic. I told him, "You're not me. You're a big gassed up f---er, but you ain't me."

 

Keller: Has A.J. Styles impressed you?

 

Nash: Yeah.

 

Keller: He's not a Vanilla Midget (a term Nash used to demean Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, and others in WCW years ago)?

 

Nash: No. The Vanilla Midget comment, that was at a different point in my life. I've got a much greater appreciation for those guys today. The thing that killed me was watching (Christopher) Daniels and A.J. work before me and Jeff. I mean, you talk about your ass tightening up. I'm watching that going, "F--in' hell, this is good! This is really good!" I'm watching and I'm not even thinking about a spot I've got to do or anything. All I'm thinking is, "This is really good." Then when they went to the time limit, I asked how long they were going after the time limit. They said, "Three minutes." I said, "Well, I guess I should get up and stretch. I'm 45 years old. I gotta quit being a f---in' mark and watching their match." I didn't remember anything we were doing. I figured, though, it'll come to me. We got out there. I don't know if you can see it on tape or not because I haven't watched it back, but I looked at Jeff (in the ring) and said, "I'm blank. Call it!" [laughs]

 

Keller: Do you think Jeff Jarrett should have been NWA Champion this long?

 

Nash: It's almost like Paul (Triple H). I don't see anyone on the horizon that he should drop it to.

 

Keller: How much of a fan of pro wrestling were you growing up?

 

Nash: Huge. We had Big Time Wrestling in Detroit when I was growing up. It had Bobo Brazil, Dick the Bruiser, the Kangaroos. I was a huge fan of Moose Cholak. Igor, (Pampero) Firpo, we had a lot of people that came through there. Detroit was a hot territory. My friends and I used to have wrestling matches in sixth or seventh grade. We'd use foreign objects and end up down in the principal's office. My uncle was a huge wrestling fan. My mom wouldn't let us look at the magazines, so I'd have to take them over to his house. Back then, all the covers of all the mags were nothing but color, nothing but juice. It was juice, juice, juice, juice, juice. I remember the first match I saw, at the Olympia.

 

Keller: Do you remember the first live event you attended?

 

Nash: The first match was Sheik vs. Dick the Bruiser. This was '69, maybe '70. It was a cage and they got double-juice. We were sitting near where the heels came out. We screamed at the Sheik. Eddie (Ed Farhat, the Original Sheik) looked up at us. Nobody got a crimson mask like he did. It was basically blood and eyes. He looked up at us and it was like the devil looked at us. Me and my brother were just horrified. I remembered that. It wasn't until I actually met him years and years later when I was in the business that I was able to put that demon to rest that he was actually not in fact the devil. That's back when there was real heat. It was a different feel.

 

Keller: That story reminds me of Sheik Adnon Al Kaissey (a/k/a General Adnon) when he first arrived in the AWA as a heel wrestler around 1980. He applied the abdominal stretch, but he'd yank on the leg at the same time.

 

Nash: Which Scott Hall stole. He stole that with his Three Legged Man. Scott got it from him.

 

Keller: The look on Sheik Adnon's face scared me. The AWA had heels like Adrian Adonis, Jesse Ventura, Ray "The Crippler" Stevens, Nick Bockwinkel, and Jerry Blackwell, but this guy really scared me. I thought, "Okay, the AWA used to have these bad guys, but this guy came in from the Middle East and he's taking over. This is real!"

 

Nash: That's the way I looked at it. The Kangaroos worked that night and they had a real choreographed kind of match. Even at my age I kind of felt (something wasn't right). But when (Sheik and Bruiser) had the cage match and he went to the foreign object, I thought these guys hated each other, this is real, they're bleeding, and he's the devil.

 

Keller: In the AWA, Mean Gene was scared of Sheik Adnon. Promoter Wally Karbo was scared. There seemed to be a different look in their eyes because they felt they had someone on their hands they couldn't control. That's cool believability. I'm not sure if you can reproduce that today. In 1980 for me and 1970 for you, it worked.

 

Nash: For a real short period of time, I think we had that with the NWO. I really think we did. When we swung baseball bats at guys, the fans didn't know they were gimmicked bats, I think that's why that angle lasted so long. Because the genesis was live. The genesis was real. It was two New York guys coming in and the fans bought it as a takeover. (Eric) Bischoff looked at me and said, "We're on fire." I remember saying, "Eric, you've got to realize you've got two guys from New York that have come in here and the entire country thinks two guys can take over your company. You guys are not strong! [laughs] What the nation is basically saying, ?F---, two guys from the Yankees came down into the Mets and you're f---ed.' And that was the whole deal. They believed. We were straight off of their (the WWF's) TV. Never before had two top guys who weren't played out jumped over. I mean, people can say what they want about Bischoff, but it was Bischoff's creation and Bischoff's idea. He may never get any credit for this business, but Bischoff had a vision and always had a vision and always will have a vision that is very hip.

 

Keller: I think he does get credit for that. He gets credit for both the good and the bad.

 

Nash: This book came out called the "Death of WCW" and they said basically I was Oswald. I say f--- that. Number one, you've got to think outside of the wrestling bubble. You're talking about Time Warner, the biggest multimedia conglomerate in the world being basically eaten up by a dot-com crash. I know I lost high-six-figures in the dot-com crash. The crash of the dot-coms meant the crash of Time Warner which means anything that's not soluble has got to go. Anything in the red has got to be eaten. It has nothing to do with booking, ratings, anything else. Their stock went from seventy-three to seventeen dollars. People have got to realize that there's more out there to life than the wrestling world. There's a thing called economics. Was I Oswald? No. Was I sitting on the grassy knoll with a rifle? Probably. But you know what, if you create the Frankenstein monster, you have a right to drive a stake into its heart. That's the way I feel. If I caused it to die, if my booking was that rotten - well, I don't think it was, but then I didn't have creative control. Hulk (Hogan) had creative control, I wrote a show, and it's Monday at 6 o'clock and Hulk would show up and he'd say, "Brother, that doesn't work for me." Then we were pretty much screwed.

 

Keller: We'll get into that in great detail later. I want to jump back a few steps first. Did you remain a fan until you became a wrestler or was there a spell in there when you moved on to other things as a teenager?

 

Nash: I got away from it then. I grew big and tall and became a basketball fan. I got away from the sport. Then I came home after playing ball over in Europe. I blew my knee out over there. I came home to Detroit. Some of my buddies would go out every Friday and Saturday night to different places. They came and got me one time and they said, "Hey, we're going to Joe Lewis tonight." I said, "What are we doing?" They said the WWF was in town. I said, "Nah, I don't want to see that crap." I went there and we sat close. We sat probably ten rows back. That's when (Jim) Hellwig was the Dingo Warrior. He hadn't been on TV yet. He was just doing the house shows. He was probably 300 pounds. He was the biggest dude I had probably ever seen in my life. I remember (Ron) Garvin was on the show. Garvin did the stomp. We'd talk sh-- to him. He kind of came over and put us over and kind of got in our faces. Hulk then came down. He was in the main event. It was funny because there I was ten rows back and his charisma and everything else was so gigantic, I thought he was much larger than I was. Hulk was that larger than life. He really was that guy. I was 45 feet from him and he looked way bigger than I was. They used to say he was 6-10 and 345 pounds. When I finally met him in WWE in '93, he was like 6-6, 275. I said to myself, all right, he got me! [laughs] Good marketing ploy. I bought it. I'd say the world bought it. That's my history of pro wrestling as a fan. I always was a fan and always will be a fan. I don't watch as much as I used to because I've got a lot of things going on in my life, but I will always be a wrestling fan.

 

Keller: So you saw this WWF show. You were impressed with Hogan. You saw Warrior. Was it at that point that you thought maybe this was something you wanted to do.

 

Nash: As I said, I tore my knee up playing ball over in Europe. I was just rehabbing it and basically looking for something to do. Not to be a dick or anything, but I thought to myself, I'm a much better athlete than 90 percent of the guys in that ring even with a bad leg. That's the one thing people don't understand. Nobody knows the extent of the knee injuries I had before I broke in in '89. I was told by three or four doctors, including the (Detroit) Lion's orthopedic Dr. Tigie - he did Billy Simms's rehab on his knee and tried to get him back. He told me, "You're done. You'll never be able to run again, let alone walk without a limp. You've destroyed your knee." And I look at that and 16 years later, I'm still in the ring. I wonder what kind of career I'd have had if I wouldn't have blown my knee out. I had a 39 inch vertical jump when I was in high school. I was an athlete. Basically I came into wrestling and people would always say, "He's lazy!" Dude, (Roddy) Piper's not called lazy and he's crippled, so why am I lazy? [laughs] Because I'm younger? If you're lame, you're lame. I'm doing the best I can. If I flew from Detroit to Denver and my knee swelled up and I went to Nitro that afternoon, guess what, you didn't get a good match because guess what? The Vicodin didn't kick in and I was in a lot of pain and I did the best I could that night. But, if you've ever seen my knees up close, if anybody's ever sat down with me, my friends know, they look at me and they know how bad my knees are. They see me get up in the morning and walk around.

 

Keller: With this bad of a knee injury in basketball, what made you think you'd be able to even try wrestling?

 

Nash: As I said, I had my leg wrapped against the ringpost the other night and (Billy Gunn) didn't turn my foot and throw my calf against the pole, he threw my shin against the pole. He busted my leg wide open at the shin. I got a staph infection. So the thing knotted up about the size of a softball. I put ice on it for three or four days. It wasn't getting any better, so I put a heat pack on it. I put the heat pack in the microwave for three minutes and put it on my leg. I thought, "F---, this is kind of hot." But I just sat there and said, "This thing is really hot. It hurts!" I was going to do 20 minutes hot, 20 minutes cold. I pulled it off and my entire leg was blistered where the thing was. I basically gave myself second degree burns, but my pain tolerance was so high that I just sat and rode it out. I can get my teeth drilled without Novocaine. I've just got a really high pain tolerance. I don't know if it's God's gift or God's curse, but I was able to wrestle with these bad knees.

 

Keller: Who approached you about becoming a wrestler?

 

Nash: It was kind of my idea. I went down to Atlanta. I was working the strip joint up in Detroit. I was working at BT's on Michigan Avenue. It was the hottest strip joint in Detroit. Some guys came in who were running a scam out of Atlanta. I ended up going to Atlanta and running the scam. I ended up getting arrested by the FBI, incarcerated, the whole deal. When everybody talked who needed to talk, I ended up getting let go. The prosecutor got me out of it. And the guy that served my papers told me, "Hey, they're hiring down at the Cheetah if you need a job." So I got out of jail and went down to the Cheetah when it was the hottest strip club in Atlanta at the time. I started bouncing there. Centre Stage was probably a half mile from there. (Barry) Windham, (Rick) Steiner, and a lot of the guys came down. I became friends with some of the boys. F---, I was on the gas back then. I was probably 370. I was huge. That was back when I could incline 405 to 12. I was a musclehead dude. I made six figures bouncing. When Ole (Anderson) offered me my first contract, he said he'd give me 75 grand. I said, "Who do you think you're talking to?" I have a year-and-a-half old Cadillac. My wife has a brand new convertible Mustang. I'm living in a gated community in Buckhead. I'm making 130, 140 a year. You've got to be kidding me." He said, "That's all I can offer you." I asked my wife. She looked at me and said, "If he offered you 30 and it got you out of the strip joint, I'd say yes." She just wanted me out of the strip joint.

 

Keller: Little did she know.

 

Nash: [laughs]

 

In upcoming installments, Nash talks about how Dusty presented him with the infamous Oz gimmick, his first impression of Vince McMahon, how he got out of his WCW contract early to jump to the WWF, how he got along with Shawn Michaels at first, how he ended up going from bodyguard to champion, the Bret Hart-Shawn Michaels rivalry, and more.

[Guest Some Guy]

Was I Oswald? No. Was I sitting on the grassy knoll with a rifle? Probably. But you know what, if you create the Frankenstein monster, you have a right to drive a stake into its heart. That's the way I feel. If I caused it to die, if my booking was that rotten - well, I don't think it was, but then I didn't have creative control. Hulk (Hogan) had creative control, I wrote a show, and it's Monday at 6 o'clock and Hulk would show up and he'd say, "Brother, that doesn't work for me." Then we were pretty much screwed.

 

So which is it? He deny any blame, take some blame, and then defer the blame over to Hogan all in one paragraph. And why would anyone want to "drive the stake into the heart" of a company that they work for and one that employs so many people? That's pretty cruel actually. In Hogan's book, he expressed happyness that all the territories died because "the beer bellies" were gone. It seems that both he and Nash are fucking assholes who don't give a shit about anyone who might have needed that worl to feed their families.

 

Other than the odd tangent about Schiavo I don't see too many other gross distortions of the truth. He's right about TNA sucking. I have to believe that that he is always in pain because he's had like 987 knee surgeries. I think once they get into his WWF and WCW runs the bullshit will really start to fly.

[Loss]

Yeah, that's when things will get interesting. I think Kevin Nash is saying that he killed WCW, but that it was justified, so he shouldn't get blamed for it anyway. If we want to blame someone, we can just blame Hogan, because Nash has a bad knee.

[goodhelmet]

So which is it?  He deny any blame, take some blame, and then defer the blame over to Hogan all in one paragraph.

I think it was actually something that other writers and bookers had also complained about... Hogan switching up the stories the day of the show. hate Nash or not, that isn't his fault.

[Guest Steffie]

Yeah, that's when things will get interesting. I think Kevin Nash is saying that he killed WCW, but that it was justified, so he shouldn't get blamed for it anyway. If we want to blame someone, we can just blame Hogan, because Nash has a bad knee.

Question: Why should we blame Hogan for killing WCW?

[Loss]

Hogan killed WCW by refusing to work with guys who could have prolonged his time on top. Admittedly, guys like Benoit and Jericho would have been better off programmed with Bret, Flair, Sting and Page, where there was less of a size difference, but Hogan/Booker and Hogan/Goldberg are the types of feuds that needed to last longer and get more focus.

[Guest Some Guy]

So which is it?  He deny any blame, take some blame, and then defer the blame over to Hogan all in one paragraph.

I think it was actually something that other writers and bookers had also complained about... Hogan switching up the stories the day of the show. hate Nash or not, that isn't his fault.

Yes, but read what he said in additon to the Hogan thing.

 

Was I Oswald? No.

Denies killing it all by himself, which he didn't actually do.

 

No. Was I sitting on the grassy knoll with a rifle? Probably

Takes a little bit of the blame for the demise.

 

But you know what, if you create the Frankenstein monster, you have a right to drive a stake into its heart. That's the way I feel.

Justifies playing a role in killing it.

 

If I caused it to die, if my booking was that rotten - well, I don't think it was, but then I didn't have creative control.

Absolves himself of any blame.

 

Hulk (Hogan) had creative control, I wrote a show, and it's Monday at 6 o'clock and Hulk would show up and he'd say, "Brother, that doesn't work for me." Then we were pretty much screwed.

Shifts the heat onto Hogan.

 

He is a true politician.

 

 

Loss:

Hogan killed WCW by refusing to work with guys who could have prolonged his time on top. Admittedly, guys like Benoit and Jericho would have been better off programmed with Bret, Flair, Sting and Page, where there was less of a size difference, but Hogan/Booker and Hogan/Goldberg are the types of feuds that needed to last longer and get more focus.

Very true except for the size comment. Hogan is probably 2 inches taller than HHH and maybe 15lbs heavier. Benoit and Jericho didn't look tiny next to HHH, so I don't think they would have next to Hogan. Jericho didn't really look small against Hogan when they wretled on SD!. The match was booked to make him look small though, with Hogan tossing him around. I think the big problem would be getting Hogan to take moves like the rolling Germans and getting him to job.

 

One thing I can't figure out is why Hogan and Goldberg never had a program together after the Goldberg title win. They could have had Hogan end the streak and take the belt at WW3 and then put it back on Goldberg at Starcade. I don't think losing would have killed his heat if he got it back clean the next month. And this way Hogan would have gotten to end the streak as he wanted and they would have had 2 PPVs that would have drawn good money.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

Hogan and HHH are about the same height. There is very little difference between them.

 

Hogan and Goldberg never had a program because that would have elevated Goldberg. Hogan wasn't elevating anyone.

[Loss]

Benoit and Jericho both added tons of muscle mass between the time they were in WCW and the time they feuded with HHH. Yeah, the 2001 versions of both of them would have looked credible against Hogan, but they were both much smaller in 1998-1999. I do think there would have been a right time for Hogan to do programs with both of them, but it would need to come after they'd either held their own or gotten huge wins over guys like Flair and Bret, proving they can hang on that level. Benoit had built-in feuds with Flair and Bret. Jericho didn't so much, but they could have easily created feuds there. It just seems like a nice starting place for both of them. Then put them over Page, who is legit about seven inches or so taller than both of them, and finally build to a showdown with Hogan.

 

Ideally, WCW could have run the old v new angle in 1999, and if done properly, I think combinations of Hogan/Hall/Nash/Flair/Bret/Sting/Luger/Page/Piper/Savage v Goldberg/Benoit/Jericho/Rey/Guerrero/Booker/Raven/Saturn/Kanyon/Kidman could have played out for two years.

 

The Steiners could play either side of the fence, but making them put over Raven and Saturn in the middle of the ring would have been step one in re-establishing the tag division as something worthwhile.

[Guest Some Guy]

It also would have made Hogan a ton of money. That's the main reason I can't undestand why certain guy hold others down. The business is about making money and the only to ensure that you keep making money is by building new stars to work with.

 

What did you think of the interview, HTQ?

[Loss]

The interview is not over, for the record. There's probably at least 8 or 9 more installments.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

It also would have made Hogan a ton of money.  That's the main reason I can't undestand why certain guy hold others down.  The business is about making money and the only to ensure that you keep making money is by building new stars to work with.

 

What did you think of the interview, HTQ?

A lot of top guys would rather make less and be the only top guy, than make more and share the spotlight with others. Why do you think Hunter kills off any threat to his spot ? More top guys would mean him making more money, and he'd inherit a bigger empire, but he wants the top spot all to himself, and he isn't about to share it.

 

I thought Kevin Nash said a whole lot of nothing.

[Loss]

Also, I think the real frame of mind for a lot of guys is that if they let a lot of guys reach the top, one of them may catch on and get hotter than they ever were, at which point a turnaround will have happened without the established guys being involved. At that point, they can no longer deny that the business has passed them by.

 

In other words, I think even HHH is all for a company turnaround, but not if he's not the central figure in making it happen. His stock falls if others become more successful, or at least that's the way he sees it.

[Guest Some Guy]

It also would have made Hogan a ton of money.? That's the main reason I can't undestand why certain guy hold others down.? The business is about making money and the only to ensure that you keep making money is by building new stars to work with.

 

What did you think of the interview, HTQ?

A lot of top guys would rather make less and be the only top guy, than make more and share the spotlight with others. Why do you think Hunter kills off any threat to his spot ? More top guys would mean him making more money, and he'd inherit a bigger empire, but he wants the top spot all to himself, and he isn't about to share it.

 

I thought Kevin Nash said a whole lot of nothing.

I understand the rational, I just don't get why money wouldn't be the overriding thing. It would be for me.

 

Loss:

In other words, I think even HHH is all for a company turnaround, but not if he's not the central figure in making it happen. His stock falls if others become more successful, or at least that's the way he sees it.

Sure, maybe his stock falls but it's not like he's going to get fired. At least with Hogan and Nash and others you can maybe see the argument that they could be turfed out so they need to keep themselves on top (it actually happened to Hogan in WCW), but HHH isn't going anywhere. I also wonder if HHH realizes that there will not be a company turnaround with himself as the central figure? I wonder if he has deluded himself into thinking that he was a main reason for the 98-2000 boom and that him being on top has nothing to do with the current state of the business?

 

Ideally, WCW could have run the old v new angle in 1999, and if done properly, I think combinations of Hogan/Hall/Nash/Flair/Bret/Sting/Luger/Page/Piper/Savage v Goldberg/Benoit/Jericho/Rey/Guerrero/Booker/Raven/Saturn/Kanyon/Kidman could have played out for two years.

No mention of Jeff Jarrett? Or Sid? What's wrong with you, I thought you'd want this to draw money?

 

I would have loved an angle like that if done properly with the younger guys going over at the proper times. There are 10 different PPV MEs that would've drawn with Goldberg alone if the angles were done right and probably 20 if you factor in rematches. They had such an incredible amount of talent in WCW at that time

[Loss]

Yes, I think he has. Whoever the next generation of top stars ends up being will do the same when it's time for them to go away. The "wrestling is cyclical" line will have to get dusted off.

[Guest Slickster]

What a great interview this is! I can't wait for the next installments.