Ultimate Warrior

[David Mantell]

On 3/17/2025 at 5:05 AM, cad said:

I'm sure it helped that Hellwig seemed to fancy himself a genuine real life superhero.

The flipside of that was Warrior backing out of selling out to Mr Perfect to become heel World champion at Summerslam 92 which took away what would have been the historic cherry on top of that event.

[El McKell]

1 hour ago, DMJ said:

I think the argument for him would be (a) there's plenty of sentimental favorites that people have so why not?

This is not an argument in Warriors favour in the slightest. Everyone votes for who they think is best, we shouldn't avoid a pick because it might be thought of as a weird/bad pick. But this is not a case in favour of Warrior, it does not explain why you or anyone else would vote for him.

1 hour ago, DMJ said:

(b) as the "perfect version" of a wrestling trope. 

We've seen lots of guys whose entire act is basically coming in, squashing dudes, cutting borderline incoherent (but I'd argue highly entertaining) promos, and occasionally getting carried to good-to-great matches. Obviously Goldberg comes to mind. But what about Sid? What about Ryback or someone like Braun Strowman? Hell, Ludvig Borga or The Great Khali would probably fall under that category. Then there was The Renegade, the most obvious clone.

Now, if you loathe that trope - if you absolutely hate the cartoonish aspect of pro-wrestling and want competitive matches, impassioned-but-realistic promos, etc. - there's no amount of Warrior praise that will convince you he deserves to be on a list of greats. But if you're like me and you actually enjoy some of that absurdity, the Ultimate Warrior is, to many of us, the archetype. 

His squashes were the most ludicrous (partially because he could execute the fewest moves). His promos were the most unhinged. His look and mannerisms were the most insane. And then, as others have said, you can actually look at the resume and he has 3-4 great matches (carry jobs or not). That's more than anyone else of his ilk. 

If we're comparing these guys who's case mainly revolves around having a bunch of squashes, I don't think Warrior is some 'perfect version' of that. I think Goldberg is on the same level.

I think when laying out this it's unfair to Goldberg to give Warrior credit for having the "most ludicrous" squashes when Goldberg squashes are usually much more entertaining (which should be the metric we use here) and when Warrior never had a squash as ludicrous as Goldberg vs La Parka anyway. 

"His look and mannerisms were the most insane." I love an Ultimate Warrior entrance but again I think "most insane" is choosing the criteria specifically to favour Warrior. Why can't we just ask the question which is cooler or which gets you more hyped up: Warrior sprinting down the aisle and shaking the ropes or Goldberg walking through pyro and breathing out the smoke?

I also think Goldberg has just as many great matches as Warrior (and nothing so awful/unwatchable as Warrior vs Goldust or Warrior vs Hogan '98).

Goldberg loses the promo comparison but not talking helped his aura. 

[DMJ]

I totally agree with so much of your response and thank you for it. Just to make clear, Warrior won't make my list (either will Goldberg), though I do know this may read like a defense or argument for him. By my own criteria, Goldberg would probably even "score" higher in all but 1-2 categories.

I think you got the gist of what I was saying: Warrior could make someone's list, but it would likely come from someone who just loves Warrior - the larger-than-life character, the unhinged promos - and is making their list at least partially based on personal favorites/preferences, which I then extended by saying maybe this hypothetical voter sees Warrior as "the best version" of a certain archetype (raging psychopath with super physique and limited moveset who is booked as totally/nearly unstoppable for a prolonged time).

You argue he is not that "best version" - if we're being honest, maybe its actually The Road Warriors? - but I can see the other side, even if its misguided or still really comes down to inventing as many reasons as possible to just say "He's the best version because he's my favorite version!" Like you said, its not a great argument. It's an emotional/sentimental appeal. 

Full disclosure, though: Warrior made my list in 2016. He was #85. But...in 2016, I was a WWE/WCW-centric voter who built my list based on my childhood memories, growing up as a wrestling fan during the 90s, and then being an on-again/off-again WWE fan during the 00s and 2010s. My list had guys like Buff Bagwell and Ron Simmons on it. I had DDP at #27 on a list of the Greatest Wrestlers Ever. Mine was not the most educated ballot. But, even then, I think Warrior was defensible just based on him being a personal favorite with a ton of charisma, a great look, and a handful of ultra memorable matches and angles that I and many other fans have emotional connection to (the Papa Shango stuff is practically a core memory for me and I still get a little pissed thinking about how he lost the title to Slaughter at Royal Rumble 91'). It might be blasphemous to some but there's still a part of me that thinks, warts-and-all Warrior is a Greater Wrestler than Brad Armstrong or Tom Zenk (my #97 and #98 10 years ago). I don't necessarily think so now, but in 2016, I was pretty confident with that assessment.

So there could be a voter in 2026 who puts together their own list - I'm actually thinking of sending info on how to participate to some friends and encouraging one to have his son make a list (he's a die-hard fan and is 13 years old) - and their list could be formed on the same knowledge/ignorance that mine was in 2016. I know we don't want to necessarily open up voting to every person whose ever caught a single episode of Raw, but I'd also hope we would want to include at least some voters who are like me 10 years ago: more knowledgeable than 99% of average folks who can only name 10 wrestlers, but considerably less knowledgeable than many people here at PWO.

I also just want to add - I actually think its more fun to argue that someone like Warrior can be #99 than it is to squabble over where Terry Funk or Misawa lands in the top #5, so, please excuse the long-winded answer but this is the kind of discourse I appreciate so much about PWO.