How do you defend when someone says "stop watching

[Guest Sass]

Bite the bullet and admit you're an idiot for watching such a bad show.   It's kinda hard for someone to provide a comeback for that.  Plus, you are.  Simply put, there isn't a good reason to watch WWE programming.  They put on the worst shows on television.  There is something wrong with you.  Admit it, move on.  Lots of people do stupid things, it's only human.

 

Or there's the classic:

 

"Hey, if you don't like reading my posts, stop reading".  Back in the day, man, that one was a killer.

THANK you RRR.

[Guest brian]

WWE for me is like being a parent with a kid who isn't always perfect. I have watched it grow and do great things over the last 20 years, but I have also seen it makes some enormous mistakes.

If my kid looked like he had been beaten with an ugly stick, fucked a dead body, and couldn't make it out of the fifth grade after four years, I'd whoop his ass so hard he'd walk backwards. And then I'd disown him.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

I stopped watching regularly after JR got the shit kicked out of him and lost sight in one eye to further the Batista vs HHH angle. Developments since then haven't exactly motivated me to start watching again. There was only so long I could stand programming leaving a bad taste in my mouth before I realised I was being fed shit. If I buy something and I don't like it, I either get rid off it, sell it or return it. If I see something I don't like, I either make a complaint or turn away. If I think someone is ignorant or stupid, I disassociate myself from them. Maybe I just have standards that aren't by the earth's core but I'd rather watch something I find entertaining and absorbing than something that insults my intelligence and recycles crap in an even crappier form.

 

Anything worth a damn turns up on the net to download and Velocity is their most consistent show and that's free both on my TV and on their site. I still enjoy watching good entertaining wrestling however thankfully now I don't have to watch all the shit that fills the rest of the programming.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

They put on the worst shows on television.

Somebody call the hyperbole police...

 

There are still roughly five million people watching Raw each week. If it was that bad of a show and it was that idiotic to watch, it wouldn't constantly be the top or amongst the top rated shows on cable. I'd say the numbers happen to speak louder than anyone who assumes because they don't like WWE, anyone who watches the show must be an idiot and not a real wrestling fan.

Name a show that has worse acting and worse writing. Even THE PARKERS, which I have seen, is better in those two regards. The fucking PARKERS. Monique and Jenna Von Oy! You would have to look to porn to find as bad of acting, and even porn has more coherant storylines, is more original, and relies less on formula than the WWE. If any other show, that wasn't professional wrestling (whose fans have insanely low standards), provided the quality of story and acting that the WWE does, they'd be off the air in no time. They would be universally panned by TV critics (WWE, in this case, is universally ignored, simply because they're so bad no one takes them seriously).

 

5 million people watch it. So? 300+ million don't. Throwing that shit around doesn't prove or disprove anything. Look at the shows, they're awful.

 

Though I like how you threw that "not a real wrestling fan" in there, some fantastic implications...

[Mad Dog]

I feel completely confident saying that the last month of Raw was the worst month of wrestling tv ever. It's worse than anything WCW ever put out. Even that show where the first hour was backstage stuff.

[Guest EastCoastJ]

Name a show that has worse acting and worse writing. Even THE PARKERS, which I have seen, is better in those two regards.

This is wrestling we're talking about. It's not like the acting in wrestling was award winning when WWE was hot a few years ago either, wrestlers have always looked like the worst, most over the top actors in the world with exceptions like Eddie Guerrero, The Rock, Foley etc. You can't point that out as a reason Raw is bad in 2005 when it's just something that has always been in wrestling. The production, the in ring action and the live variety show element have always been the draw to current wrestling, no one cares about acting.

 

5 million people watch it. So? 300+ million don't. Throwing that shit around doesn't prove or disprove anything. Look at the shows, they're awful.

Well when wrestling was hot 297+ million people didn't watch, that's a really irrelevant point. I do watch the shows. Enough people are watching an "awful" show to make the USA Network happy as anything right now. Their shows are a mix of good and bad. I've certainly seen way worse, and to make a blanket statement like the entire WWE product sucks right now isn't fair considering there is some good to be found in WWE amidst the bad comedy and weird booking.

 

Though I like how you threw that "not a real wrestling fan" in there, some fantastic implications...

Well, it wasn't quite as blunt as calling people who watch WWE television idiots because you personally don't care for it.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

They put on the worst shows on television.

Somebody call the hyperbole police...

 

There are still roughly five million people watching Raw each week. If it was that bad of a show and it was that idiotic to watch, it wouldn't constantly be the top or amongst the top rated shows on cable. I'd say the numbers happen to speak louder than anyone who assumes because they don't like WWE, anyone who watches the show must be an idiot and not a real wrestling fan.

The average IQ in American is below 100, which is the average worldwide. Jerry Springer was once a hit show for featuring nothing other than trailer trash fighting. In a recent survey of 200 Americans only 23 correctly identified the correct location of Afghanistan. People still support a war that was based on little more than speculation which has since been proven to have been nothing but misinformation and lies. 50 Cent is the best selling artist in the USA for doing little more than mumbling badly about things he couldn't get away with if he tried nor would he attempt to but people still buy him as legit. Girls want to grow up to be like Paris Hilton, for crying out loud.

 

Let's not overestimate the intelligence of WWE's current US audience. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good, right or smart. People are essentially stupid unless they are educated and informed on matters and if people honestly find the current WWE product to be entertaining and worth watching, they are stupid.

[Mad Dog]

Excuse me, don't turn this thread into a bash America thread. Especially considering the WWF is doing more overseas shows because the American public isn't going to their shows anymore.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

It's not a bash America thread. It's simply pointing out that their domestic audience on average probably doesn't even recognise the shittiness of the product because they are literally too stupid to notice. I could bash the way my country is going (holding people without charge for up to 3 months? What shit is that? Police killing an innocent Brazilian going to work while allowing a convicted rapist to go free and kill two children... who the fuck is running things?) but that's not relevant to my argument. The fact that the WWE's audience is likely to be literally below average intelligence and therefore willing to accept crap unconditionally due to being easily entertaining and poorly educated is. There is a reason they aren't getting the ratings they did 5 years ago and that's because the majority of people with any sense have tuned into other programming, took an interest in UFC's broadcasts or went back to watching MNF instead.

 

Even their house shows over here aren't selling out anymore so it's not like Britain hasn't cottoned on to the fact their product sucks. The only guaranteed places they can sell out venues right now are Australia and Japan and that's due to the fact they rarely visit those countries.

[Guest EastCoastJ]

They put on the worst shows on television.

Somebody call the hyperbole police...

 

There are still roughly five million people watching Raw each week. If it was that bad of a show and it was that idiotic to watch, it wouldn't constantly be the top or amongst the top rated shows on cable. I'd say the numbers happen to speak louder than anyone who assumes because they don't like WWE, anyone who watches the show must be an idiot and not a real wrestling fan.

The average IQ in American is below 100, which is the average worldwide. Jerry Springer was once a hit show for featuring nothing other than trailer trash fighting.

WWE appealing to the lowest common denominator is nothing new though. You can't say WWE's audience is a bunch of idiots now for watching such dumb television, when it was just as dumb if not dumber when all of us were watching it a few years ago when it was on fire. If it's idiotic to watch now, it was idiotic to watch a few years ago before everyone jumped off the bandwagon as well.

 

It just seems silly to say you don't watch WWE now because of the bad acting and lowbrow approach, when the product you used to support was really no different.

[Mad Dog]

Good point. A lot of people went nuts for the Undertaker's shit in 99. Ugh...... 99 if it wasn't for the tag division in WCW I would've given up on wrestling then.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

Pro wrestling is never going to be the most compelling, well acted, well thought out and well executed medium these days, however 5 years ago while flawed, it was still exciting and interesting enough so people could at least say "Well, that sucked, but when _______ did _____ I couldn't believe it, that was awesome! And did you see... etc" These days unfortunately it is not only poor written and poorly executed 90% of the time, it is not exciting or interesting either. On top of that they have squandered many potential opportunities to improve or generate interest in their product. Even JR has commented on the crappiness and shitty direction the programming is heading in. If even the guys in the company realise how crap it is, how can those outside not realise it?

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

This is wrestling we're talking about. It's not like the acting in wrestling was award winning when WWE was hot a few years ago either, wrestlers have always looked like the worst, most over the top actors in the world with exceptions like Eddie Guerrero, The Rock, Foley etc. You can't point that out as a reason Raw is bad in 2005 when it's just something that has always been in wrestling. The production, the in ring action and the live variety show element have always been the draw to current wrestling, no one cares about acting.

 

And how does this stop the WWE from putting on the worst shows in television? Like I said, wrestling fans have low standards, they don't really expect much, thank you for proving my point.

 

Well when wrestling was hot 297+ million people didn't watch, that's a really irrelevant point. I do watch the shows. Enough people are watching an "awful" show to make the USA Network happy as anything right now. Their shows are a mix of good and bad. I've certainly seen way worse, and to make a blanket statement like the entire WWE product sucks right now isn't fair considering there is some good to be found in WWE amidst the bad comedy and weird booking.

 

And yet with all these good ratings, somehow they can't get the appropriate interest from advertisers. The blanket statement is very fair, I could watch Smackdown or RAW right now and shred it to pieces. It can't hold the criticism. Just cause you can find a few redeeming features doesn't mean the show itself is redeemable. And if you've seen "way worse", then I really feel bad for you. Cause in my time, there are very few things I can think of that are worse than what the WWE is putting out right now.

 

 

Well, it wasn't quite as blunt as calling people who watch WWE television idiots because you personally don't care for it.

 

I said they're idiots cause the show is bad, yet they continually watch it. I'm still dumb enough to check it out every week for a few minutes, but I'm smart enough to tune out after I see that the show still is awful and that it's not worth the suck to get to the good.

[Slasher]

I wonder, does this mean the ones who choose to stop watching it have a higher standard for wrestling?

[Mad Dog]

I wonder, does this mean the ones who choose to stop watching it have a higher standard for wrestling?

No, some people still watch out of a vain hope that things will get better.

[World's Worst Man]

Even their house shows over here aren't selling out anymore so it's not like Britain hasn't cottoned on to the fact their product sucks. The only guaranteed places they can sell out venues right now are Australia and Japan and that's due to the fact they rarely visit those countries.

On the last tour of Japan, their 2 shows drew 50% and 70% houses. Just a little fun fact.

 

I don't really care who watches what. People can watch whatever they want and be entertained by whatever they want. What I have a problem with is people who still cling to the WWE and claim that it's a good product and that they put on great matches. Because the difference is, in the latter case, they can't really intelligently defend their position, while the other side of the debate can. One can draw their own conclusions about that.

 

I will say, if people do think the WWE to be terrible, they shouldn't watch it. I can see watching a show every now and then just to make sure it's still terrible, but watching regularly doesn't make any sense. There just doesn't seem to be anything to gain by watching a god awful TV program.

[Slasher]

I wonder, does this mean the ones who choose to stop watching it have a higher standard for wrestling?

No, some people still watch out of a vain hope that things will get better.

Key word in bold.

[Coffey]

All I know is that if I didn't watch anymore, I wouldn't have seen the Triple H Vs. Ric Flair match from Taboo Tuesday last night. It's probably my WWE MOTY so far.

 

I agree that the last month of WWE TV has been bad. Really bad. Actually, that's probably still an understatement. Still, the nuggets are there. That's part of the reason why I still watch. That's part of the reason why I'll continue to watch.

 

EDIT: That's another thing. If I don't follow the product, I can participate in threads about Matches of the Year and shit and I get a lot of enjoyment outta that stuff.

[Slasher]

That's fine but don't complain if people don't or tell the people complaining not to watch.

[Guest brian]

WWE for me is like being a parent with a kid who isn't always perfect. I have watched it grow and do great things over the last 20 years, but I have also seen it makes some enormous mistakes.

If my kid looked like he had been beaten with an ugly stick, fucked a dead body, and couldn't make it out of the fifth grade after four years, I'd whoop his ass so hard he'd walk backwards. And then I'd disown him.

Quoted for emphasis.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

The "And then I'd disown him" brings it from funny to hilarious.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

I agree that the last month of WWE TV has been bad. Really bad. Actually, that's probably still an understatement. Still, the nuggets are there. That's part of the reason why I still watch. That's part of the reason why I'll continue to watch.

 

EDIT: That's another thing. If I don't follow the product, I can't participate in threads about Matches of the Year and shit and I get a lot of enjoyment outta that stuff.

As I said before, anything worth a shit ends up on the net inside of a week. I've seen both Regal vs Benoit Velocity matches, Shawn vs Shelton from RAW, Styles vs Daniels vs Samoa Joe, Styles vs Samoa Joe, Joe vs Kobashi, Batista vs HHH Hell in a Cell, I'll probably have the HHH vs Flair match by the end of the week... I've not had to buy one tape, pay for one padded out PPV or watch one show that has insulted my intelligence to watch good wrestling. Anything noteworthy spreads like bird flu across the net because people are desperate for that rare slice of quality amongst the crap so even a marginally above average match can usually be found if you look in the right place.

[World's Worst Man]

Anything noteworthy spreads like bird flu across the net because people are desperate for that rare slice of quality amongst the crap so even a marginally above average match can usually be found if you look in the right place.

Not to mention the marginally above-average matches get tons of praise, when they are still marginally above-average matches Going out of one's way to see a **3/4 match gets mind-numbing after a while. For me, anyway.

[Loss]

Their roster now is infinitely better top to bottom than it has ever been, it's just a matter of finding a way to put all of the pieces together effectively.

I would say they had a far better talent roster 4-5 years ago. Now, they have mostly the same guys mixed in with a bunch of others who can't work. And the ones who are talented are either typecast as guys who aren't ever going to make it to the top or they're incredibly stale. WWE has created a tough corner for themselves because fresh talent is what they need, but because the fresh talent isn't as good as a lot of guys that have been on TV every week for 4-5 years, the stale guys end up upstaging the newer stars, sometimes maliciously and sometimes cluelessly. WWE needs to re-evaluate their entire business model and find a way to cycle talent in and out of shows more so they don't burn through their talent so quickly and also so the guys who can contribute aren't so stale and without credibility. What is that solution? Your guess is as good as mine.

[Loss]

Also, so it's known, the reason I continue to watch is because while things probably won't ever change, the possibility is always there. I'm not going to go out of my way to check out every show these days (I currently have four weeks of WWE programming stored on my Tivo and I'm in no hurry to get to it), but I have no problem skimming through the show in 10 minutes or less. That's not asking much from me.

 

Wrestling has never been about the 99% of it that sucks, is embarrassing and is totally forgettable. The same reasons I continue to watch now are the same reasons I've always watched -- because that other 1% has a tendency to be pretty damned good.

 

This leads me to an interesting question that I'll keep my opinion quiet on for now -- if wrestling was great all the time, would the great moments mean nearly as much as they do in the current environment?