El Barbaro Cavernario

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[BillThompson]

Love the guy, but he won't make my list. Provided he stays healthy he's a guy I could see making my list in 5 years or so, but he just burst onto the scene and unless a bunch of pre-2014 Cavernario is unearthed somewhere I just don't think he has the body of work necessary for consideration.

[Dylan Waco]

There were a handful of Cavernario matches a year popping up for a few years prior to 2014. As a result of those matches he was a cult favorite of guys like myself and Schneider. I thought he was one of a handful of guys you could argue was best in the world last year, and given his age I felt what he did was more impressive than what anyone else did. I think Virus and Dragon Lee have had better years than him this year, but he might be number three in Mexico for 2015, and with the coming BOSJ run I could see him cracking my top ten in the World for 2015 by the end of the year.

 

All that said his age, and being on the front end of what I hope will be a great long term run hurts him. I have no problem with him being nominated, but even if he had five more MOTYC between now and next years vote I doubt I'd vote for him just because the perspective I liked to have isn't there.

[Timbo Slice]

When this gets done in another 10 years, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in somebody's Top 25, maybe even Top 10 if they're lucha driven. But now, he's on the outside looking in.

[W2BTD]

When this gets done in another 10 years, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in somebody's Top 25, maybe even Top 10 if they're lucha driven. But now, he's on the outside looking in.

 

There are people making serious arguments for Roman Reigns. Reading that thread immediately made me think about Cavernario. If Reigns is somehow a contender for Top 100 of all time with his shallow resume, then this guy would have to be a mortal lock on any list that ultimately included Roman.

[cad]

So instead of creating a microscope thread for every wrestler sampler I'm planning on doing right now (about thirty), I think it would be easier to go through a few of their big matches, and then make a thread for a hard look if that leaves me wanting to see more. Cavernario is not even thirty years old, so on one hand it's absurd to judge him alongside finished careers, but he has ten years of taped matches to his name, more than a lot of candidates. The list of matches to nominate him was just a link to another board, so I'm going off this site's search function, thecubsfan's MOTY lists, and anything else that looks interesting.

vs Xavier "Monarca" Cruz, July 15 2012
No better way to judge a modern wrestler than by how they perform against Javier Cruz. I couldn't believe Cavernario was just eighteen here. Not just that he seemed advanced for his age, he even moved and wrestled like a guy from a different era. I wanted sympathetic old man selling or grumpy vet brawling from Cruz, but he was the same as he'd always been, just older and balder. He visibly called the match and there were a couple of rough spots, but it was pretty damn good until the ref bump, Cruces Sr. and Jr. performing tandem dives, and the DQ finish. Fifty year old Javier Cruz can't do a job?

vs Rey Cometa, September 19 2014
Already we see some character development from Cavernario, as now he wears a bone in his hair like Pebbles Flintstone. This wasn't an old school hair match, with the wrestlers building heat until they got to a fiery comeback and then putting it all on the line to win the third fall. I mean, they did the last part, but it wasn't substantially different in tone from what they'd been doing beforehand, landing impressive spots and counters with sporadic nods to violence scattered in. It was disappointing after how Cavernario wrestled Cruz and looked different from the typical modern worker. He worked hard to sell Cometa's kickouts but when you start selling every kickout it loses its effect.

vs Titan, May 3 2015
This was a title match that wasn't any different in style from the hair match with Cometa. They did a much better job putting heat on Cavernario here and building to a comeback from Titan. Those slap exchanges had more hate in them than anything in the Cometa match. Not a technical showcase, and everything started to blur together after the figure four spot in the third fall, but I liked it.

[cad]

Cavernario vs Mascara Dorada (3/28/16) was the same kind of match as his title match with Titan. I thought MD was a lot more charismatic and interesting, but maybe that's because I haven't been watching a bunch of his big matches in succession. Cavernario vs Black Terry (6/11/16) wasn't very dramatic and didn't make me root for either guy, but it was a nice look at Cavernario outside of the trappings (or maybe the comfort zone) of big match CMLL style. He can add some nice improvisational spots to a match. Cavernario vs King Phoenix (6/29/18) got some play on this site as a special match right after it happened. It doesn't look like anyone's given it much thought since. Wrestling fandom in the modern era. Cavernario tried to make his part of the match more violent than he usually does. Bit wasted on a guy whose entire offense is an array of flips, though. Fenix's style won out and finally Cavernario did some flips of his own. Too bad, midway through the second fall I was really enjoying it. Shoutout to Hechicero on commentary for calling one of Fenix's dives a Fosbury flop. Wasn't expecting a high jump reference while watching wrestling tonight, although with all of Fenix's leaps and dives maybe that kind of comparison was inevitable.

[cad]

Cavernario vs Titan from Monterrey (3/31/19) had me hooked at first, with Cavernario putting the hurt on Titan and building to a hot comeback. By the five minute mark of the video the brawling was over and they were trading moves, but the submission counters were really cool. Probably the best Cav match I've watched so far. Cavernario and Volador Jr. vs Ultimo Guerrero and Valiente (2/24/17) tested me with two guys who viscerally annoy me (Volador and UG). I was getting into it when UG and Valiente decided to be the rudo team and take apart their opponents, but again that was over pretty quickly. It's hard to get into a match when the characterization/build lasts for like five minutes and the rest of the match is the climax, but that's pretty much been the style from what I've seen. Instead of a war, the hair vs hair match between Cavernario and Rey Cometa (7/1/16) had stage dives, mascots strolling around ringside, and forearm trading that let the crowd boo the tecnico. Gave up on it about halfway through. I knew it would be a struggle going in, but I did watch Cavernario vs Volador (6/20/17) all the way through. There was nothing technical about it, at least not compared to the typical Cavernario match. Mostly I was just irritated by Volador's mere presence. He had a choker on and camo tights. I'm sure he's a great guy but he looks like such a jackoff.

Cavernario can work, but I don't see the style winning me over in if I dive deeper. He's still in his twenties, I don't feel any shame in not rating him.

[Rah]

I wish someone would take him aside and just walk him through putting together a match. He's young, and he'll only get better, but he's often led astray by those he's in the match with. That's why I'd say his peak is En Busca de Idolo 2014 where he was in the ring with better workers who could work around him (vs Hechicero, 4/8 + 6/20 and the trios 5/23). That said, I thought he was clearly the least naturally skilled of the four "rookies" and of the 2014/2015 intake only Blue Panther Jr was worse. He's seemingly had far more success than any of the others, so what do I know?

The hair match vs Felino (2021) got some MotY praise, so I'd check that out if you're still looking for some pieces to complete the puzzle. I don't think that's going to sway your opinions much, but I seem to be out to lunch with modern lucha.