Guest EastCoastJ Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 As epidemic as the issue of early deaths in professional wrestling has become, it seems to me as though the tragedies have probably peaked, and in fact probably peaked a year or two ago. When you look at those who have passed away, most have careers that spanned roughly two decades and either fall into the category of being unhealthily thick in a 1980's sense, or of having substance abuse problems that likely lasted for years. Guys who were considered to have great bodies in the 1980's like Road Warrior Hawk and Hercules were bulky but not cut, and didn't seem to have the cardiovascular conditioning that a lot of bigger guys have today. Diets didn't seem to be nearly as healthy 15-20 years ago, with a lot of guys claiming to drink a dozen raw eggs per day for protein, along with 900% of the recommended daily intake of cholesterol. On top of that, you would have to speculate that guys were taking an insane amount of steroids, and doing all kinds of things without knowledge of the long term consequences, like shooting up with monkey hormones as Hawk did. Unless the period has become romanticized, it seems as though wrestlers partied much harder 15 years ago, with many alternating alcohol, pain killers and cocaine to get to sleep and wake up in the morning, all while working many more dates. If you look at the landscape of wrestling today, it is totally different. Guys play Madden, go out to dinner and surf the internet rather than partying seven days a week. Guys work 3-4 dates per week, and are all around better athletes than wrestlers were years ago. The new generation of stars around who didn't live through the old period and work Mexico, Japan and various territories in the states don't even seem like the same breed of people. Lance Storm, Christian, Edge and John Cena take pride in what they have been able to accomplish without the use of steroids, and they all talk about following these almost psychotically healthy diets. Edge, Christian, Storm, HHH, Matt Hardy and others claim they don't even drink for the most part. The current crop of near-main eventers who didn't live through the old guard -Randy Orton, Edge, Carlito, Ken Kennedy etc- don't have the enormous bodies that would have been necessary in the past to get a chance at the top. A positive to come out of the fact that WWE is the only game in town currently is that careers in wrestling don't have the lifespan that they once did. Guys who could potentially be abusing steroids and overloading on suppliments (Lashley, Masters, Batista) could probably expect to spend five or six years in WWE before being released and either leaving the wrestling business or scaling down to two or three dates a month here and there. The days of spending 20 years in the wrestling business touring the world, doing coke, partying all night and scraping by on a few hours of sleep seem to no longer be the norm. Athleticism isn't only encouraged in 2005, it's a must with the more demanding crowds. It seems to me that the crop of professional wrestlers debuting in 1995 and on, who idolized Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle more than Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior, are living lives no less healthy than any other professional athletes. All major wrestling deaths in the past five years have involved the aftershocks of the heavy partying, rebellious period of the past. Am I wrong in believing that early wrestling deaths is largely a problem of the past going into the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brian Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I hope it is. The travel schedules have seemingly peaked, as well as has the excess of the 80s, and though steroids are still present and often prdeominant, I'd like to think that the pressures of taking them have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastCoastJ Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I think guys that take steroids across the board in all walks of life are smarter about it in 2005 than they were 20 years ago as well. In the 80's, bodybuilders and wrestlers would just overload on them nonstop, people are much smarter with cycles and other suppliments like creatine these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brian Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 The problem with supplements is that for some, we have no idea of the longterm side-effects on the health. So, we cmay come back to something like androstene, which is very popular and just recently banned from most pro sports, could have long-term effects. People know alot more about cycling and there's not as much binges, which used to be a huge problem in bodybuilding back in the day (and I'm assuming happened in wrestling as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Eddie dying has made me wonder a few things. Since pro-wrestling is still frowned apon and laughed at by real sports fans/participants/broadcasters, I wonder if someone like Hulk Hogan or The Undertaker dying would have a big impact? It doesn't matter what wrestler it's ever been, the first things we read about are drug & steroid assumptions and a bunch of other BS. Colin Cowherd of ESPN radio even went so far as to say "who cares that he died? This isn't newsworthy" in regards to Guerrero. It's no wonder wrestling fans are so bitter and jaded. Whenever something like this happens, I get on the 'net and just read a bunch of ignorant fucks spewing ignorance towards the product as a whole. They act like wrestlers aren't real people or something. Eddie Guerrero was my favorite wrestler. Now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bruiser Chong Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Cowherd long ago proved his opinion isn't worth listening to. Also, Bravo's name should be brought up in this discussion, since his death wasn't steroid or drug related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I think wrestling deaths have slowed down for now since most guys don't party like the did in the 80s with nonstop drugs and booze. I do get the feeling a lot of guys now think HGH is a safe alternative to steroids and than in 10-15 years we'll see a lot of guys sick with side effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 I think wrestling deaths have slowed down for now since most guys don't party like the did in the 80s with nonstop drugs and booze. I do get the feeling a lot of guys now think HGH is a safe alternative to steroids and than in 10-15 years we'll see a lot of guys sick with side effects. I'm wondering if Big John Studd's death from Hodgkin's Disease will later be definitively linked to HGH use. I believe Meltzer's "Tributes" book had "before" and "after" photos showing how the bone structure of his face changed over the course of his career, which is supposed to be a sign of HGH use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastCoastJ Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Cowherd long ago proved his opinion isn't worth listening to. Also, Bravo's name should be brought up in this discussion, since his death wasn't steroid or drug related. Totally forgot about how Bravo died, for some reason I was thinking heart attack, and that probably would have made dealing with it much easier for his family, but a little more concentration brought what happened back to me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 If HHH isn't suffering from some moderate to severe HGH related issues within the next 10 years, I'll eat my hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dangerous A Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 A lot of guys who did hit it hard in the 80's and early 90's are now dropping, even if they are clean and sober for years. There are cumulative effects drugs and alcohol do to the body. Plus, everyone's genetics are different and some people's hearts or other vital organs are more susceptible than others. Jake Roberts is still alive and I'm banking a lot of the wrestlers from his era who have passed only did half the shit he did. You just never know when it's going to catch up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 I don't know that I buy that wrestlers don't party and do drugs anymore, considering the reps of guys like Randy Orton and Rob Van Dam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 I never heard stories about RVD other than the weed stuff, and Rob's said that was exaggerated by Heyman to get his 4:20 gimmick over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 A lot of guys who did hit it hard in the 80's and early 90's are now dropping, even if they are clean and sober for years. There are cumulative effects drugs and alcohol do to the body. Plus, everyone's genetics are different and some people's hearts or other vital organs are more susceptible than others. Jake Roberts is still alive and I'm banking a lot of the wrestlers from his era who have passed only did half the shit he did. You just never know when it's going to catch up to you. I think at this point, Jake is the Keith Richards of wrestling. There's no logical reason for him to still be alive considering the sheer amount of abuse he's put himself through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Ditto Scott Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Some Guy Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Lance Storm, Christian, Edge and John Cena take pride in what they have been able to accomplish without the use of steroids, and they all talk about following these almost psychotically healthy diets. Edge has done steroids and probably still does. Cena has worked out since he was a little kid, so it's possible that he's natural. Storm probably didn't take them. Christian did, I'm sure at some points in his WWF career. Both E and C bulked up considerably in a relatively short period of time. That doesn't happen naturally. Whether guys are smarter about steroid use now than they were before is largely irrelevant. Steroids still do massive damage to one's liver and heart, as well as one's joints and brain. Steroids increase muscle mass, the heart is a muscle. Having an increased heart size is not healthy. Not to mention the visual side effect such as body acne and balding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastCoastJ Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Edge has claimed to try steroids one time. He doesn't exactly have the body type of a user. Christian, in the same interview as Edge, said that he never used steroids because he thought they wouldn't help him with his style. I'm sure if Edge was coming clean, Christian would have too, but I know plenty of guys his size who aren't taking steroids. Even if Christian did do a cycle to bulk up, one cycle really isn't that bad for you whatsoever. Steroids as being detrimental to your health is largely overstated. It's like anything else, if it says to take 1 and you take 10, you're going to get fucked. But it's steroids in combination with GH, painkillers, alcohol and this ridiculously high protein diets (which tax the hell out of the body) that usually screw people up, and then people blame the steroids after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brian Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 That's not completely true, Life and death-wise, maybe. But the stress on tendons, that growth in the heart, the reaction of the liver to the increases and the taxing of the joints (and not even the psychological addiction of steroids as well as the psychological effects) are all pretty much there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 People everywhere underestimate who's using roids. A lot of the times I try to stay away from saying who's on and off but I do want to say this. A LOT more people are on the roids than people think and just not in the WWE. Everyone is way too naive on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 A lot of people think that only the obvious jacked up guys take enhancement drugs, but you have to realize that not everyone on roids or HGH looks like Scott Steiner. My favorite example is that Roddy Piper probably owed one of his hip replacements to steroid use and he was never a guy you would even consider on the juice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 A lot of people think that only the obvious jacked up guys take enhancement drugs, but you have to realize that not everyone on roids or HGH looks like Scott Steiner. My favorite example is that Roddy Piper probably owed one of his hip replacements to steroid use and he was never a guy you would even consider on the juice. I'd agree with you that it's not easy for the guy off the street to say "That wrestler's on the juice"... However, if you have pictures of a wrestler early in their career, then one several years later and there's a HUGE difference (see Piper, Hennig, Buff Bagwell), then there's certainly enough to be suspicious about. Hennig used to look like a matchstick when he was jobbing in the WWWF in the early 80s. I'm pretty sure that Piper used to be the same in Portland before he hit it big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Piper looked like a 12 year old in Portland compared to his NWA and WWF stints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Take a look at Piper in that movie "They Live." He was ripped. If you can get a copy of it, check out Dynamite Kid's book, lots of interesting info about roids in there. He points out that a lot of people don't understand that you can go on the juice to slim down too, like Hercules did when he changed his gimmick. He even claimed that Billy Jack Haynes was on roids, which I never would have guessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweetMama Scaat Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Test is PISSED His site I've been up all night and haven't realy slept as everyone knows by know Eddie Guerrero has passed away. Everybody knows Eddie had his demons but he had been clean for a long time, it was way to soon for him to go and he leaves behind to beautifull young daughters and a wonderfull life my heart goes out to them. Eddie was a huge help to me he helped me progress in the ring and we even wrestles ar wrestlemania in houston in 2001 for the european championship. Eddie i pray you are in a better place and THANKYOU for everything you taught me. Now instead of usually talking about what I'm up to I'm going to break down the reality of this business we call wrestling. When I say "who's next" I'm not coining Goldbergs line I'm actually wondering who's next? who's next to die? I can think of at least 15 to 20 people who have died from various things mostly prescription pain killers. For all you wanna be wrestlers who wanna get in this business..escpecially now when wwe doesn't pay you anymore than you would make at a 9 to 5 job let me break some things down for you. When I started wrestling I had never seen or heard of vicodin or percocet or soma. How come so many wrestlers die from these medications and football players and hockey players don't? The answer is simple..wrestlers especially wwe wrestlers work 5 days a week all year long taking bump after bump in the ring, a doctor explained it to me like this..everytime you take a fall in the ring it's like gettin rear ended by a car going 20mph so how many bumps in the ring a night do you take? multiply that by how many times a week you work all year long..that's a hell of a lot of whiplash and pain. I can remember hearing a conversation from some unamed wwe head guys talking about how this certain person needs to go to rehab but they couldnt send him because he was to important to the show..that's the reality people thta is how we are treated...look at me I break my neck in the ring had to have 2 discs taken out of my neck and a steel plate put in and was told at the time by Johny Ace in his exact words were when I asked if my job would be in jeopardy he said "we don't fire people with injuries like that" Hmm that's funny cause 2 months after surgery I got fired because I wasn't working my 7 years of busting my ass for them and putting over the bosses son while my foot was broken in a cast was all forgotten about. I remember when I was bein trained by Bret and I met Bad News Allen he said this to me and I'll never forget it "all wrestlers are to Vince are puppets and when he is done playing with you he throws you away but sometimes he'll dust you off bring you back and play with you some more" That is the truth people...when Johny Ace called me and told me they were releasing me which of course he put all the heat on Vince...I said to him what kind of message are you sending the boys that if they get hurt they are going to get fired? So all the guys who don't want to lose their jobs what do they do...popp a couple of percocet or vicodin and mask the pain cause god forbid they say they are hurt and lose their job...I'm not going to name any names but I know at least a dozen or so wrestlers who are addicted to these things for that very reason...get hurt lose your job...I just turned 30 my back aches everyday, I have a metal plate in my neck and yes I got in the business at the right time and have a lot of nice things but is it all worth it? you guys don't see the ugly side of this business..yes wrestling is entertainment but the bumps and bruises are real and sometimes they don't go away...so think long and hard before you get in this business cause I can tell you first hand that if your not working or making them money they don't give a shit about you....and the sad part is Eddie was clean and I guarantee he won't be the last one to die in the next 12 months..so that's why i say who's next? Don't take your life for granted it's a gift..don't go to bed mad and tell the people you care about you love them because you never know....take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Test may type like a five year old, but he's right. Mixing the enhancing drugs you need to take to get noticed in WWE with the painkilling drugs needed to work their schedule is a recipe for having your very own tribute episode of RAW. Someone in the wrestlin business needs to step up and take care of their workers. It's disgusting that Vince could be worth nearly billions yet he can't be bothered to take care of his employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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