Carlito

[Guest Alfdogg]

Over the past several months, I've seen people talking in a very negative light about his ring work, and it's really intensified over the last month or so. I've even seen some people go so far as to lump him in with the likes of Heidenrich and Tomko. The phrase "Carlito and Masters" I've noticed has been used in reference to more than just their on-and-off tag team, as well. In a chat I was in a few weeks ago, when Carlito was taking on Shawn Michaels for the Taboo Tuesday spot, the guys I was talking to seemed pretty merciless in their negativity towards him. A lot of people (not in that chat) said that match was so awful, and seemed to imply that Shawn simply couldn't "carry" him, but Shawn seemed to sandbag him on a couple moves (the top rope bodypress and a clothesline bump over the top).

 

I don't think all the hate he gets is fair. Look at it this way: Carlito has only been an active wrestler on the main roster for about six months. I hate this comparison being used when in reference to guys like Randy Orton and now Mr. Kennedy, but the Rock was certainly no better in the ring in his first six months or even his first year than Carlito is now. Same goes for HHH, and you could go even longer than that in his case. I don't see any reason why Carlito can't improve and be as good, if not even better, in the ring than either of those guys if they stick with him.

 

Basically, my point is that a lot of people are way too quick to write off a new guy if they come in and aren't as good in the ring as someone like a Shelton Benjamin or Rob Conway. Guys like Snitsky, Heidenrich, Tomko, etc. may never be that good, but I can see it in Carlito down the road. Even Masters, I could see distancing himself at least from the other hosses and getting to a point where his ringwork isn't completely shit on every time out if enough effort is put in by all parties.

 

Thoughts?

[Coffey]

Eh, he's just not a good worker. He can sell and bump well. Obviously he's a good talker. He's even got a good gimmick and an interesting, original look. He can be successful, he's just not going to be putting on unforgetable matches anytime soon.

 

I don't think the comparison to an early Rock should be made simply because The Rock was more athletic than pretty much anyone, even when he was a terrible worker.

 

I want to throw out that I don't think Shelton Benjamin is a great worker either. I see a lot of people talk about him in a positive light, the same way people talk about Carlito in a negative light, and I don't see it.

[Guest Dirty Hippy]

In fairness, he debuted Oct 7, 2004 vs Cena, so it's been more than a year on the main roster. That being said, I for the most part agree with you. He is to me somewhat bland in the ring, but not in any way offensive. He's got a good character to work off of, a decent finisher if he is ever allowed to use it, and as a second generation wrestler, you at least assume he has been immersed in wrestling most of his life. As long as he keeps progressing and doesn't regress, I have no problem being patient and watching him develop.

As for that match against HBK, I watched it waiting for it to be his coming out party, so to speak. It didn't happen, and as it ended I wondered what happened. I didn't analyze it deeply while watching, but it just seemed slow, with little energy. I'd have to go back and watch it again, maybe it was Michaels sandbagging him.

Anyways, I don't think the comparison to the worst of the worst in the WWE is fair at this point. I'm not one to hate any big guy automatically , but even within that framework, there are some stiffs in the WWE. Comparing Carlito to the likes of Tomko and Heidenrich isn't right.

[Guest Alfdogg]

He got injured almost immediately after his debut, though, and didn't return to the ring until April or May. So he's really only been active as a worker for a little over 6 months, that's what I meant.

[Loss]

According to Konnan, Carlito is capable of much more that he isn't allowed to do. Apparently, WWE thinks they'd have trouble keeping him a heel if he did all of his highspots. Not that that makes him any better a worker, but his matches would probably have more heat if he was able to do what he wanted.

[JHawk]

According to Konnan, Carlito is capable of much more that he isn't allowed to do. Apparently, WWE thinks they'd have trouble keeping him a heel if he did all of his highspots. Not that that makes him any better a worker, but his matches would probably have more heat if he was able to do what he wanted.

The problem with that is Carlito's gimmick is so good ... and he's so good at it ... it's hard to keep him a heel as it is.

 

I'd like to know what the excuse is for them not allowing their babyfaces to do all their highspots.

[sek69]

Heels are the ones not allowed to do highspots, WWE doesn't want people cheering heels because they started busting out the cool shit.

 

Carlito's been wrestling for a few years in PR before he went to WWE so I think he's capable of more than what we've seen so far. It hasn't helped that most of Carlito's opponents in WWE so far haven't exactly been ring generals, and the one time he was matched up with one (HBK) the guy decided to wear his pissy pants and sandbag him.

[Coffey]

Where did you guys hear that HBK sandbagged Carlito in that match?

[Mad Dog]

I've seen him before his WWF run and he wasn't very impressive. I don't know what these so called high spots were but asking him to get more complicated than a full nelson was asking for trouble.

[Guest Alfdogg]

Where did you guys hear that HBK sandbagged Carlito in that match?

I didn't hear it anywhere, it was obvious just from watching the match. In particular, the rollthrough on the bodypress, and a clothesline to the outside spot early on in the match.