Fixing the WWF in 1995

[JaymeFuture]

So for this week's podcast we are returning to our booking committee format for a discussion re-booking the WWF from January 1995, in order to try and make something more out of what was the nadir of company history in the eyes of many, and we're looking to get some feedback on what you think needed to be done to make this company succeed during a period where popularity fell, and house show and PPV numbers sank to all time lows.

On the premise that you can do whatever you want with the talent there and the talent incoming (but can't do anything outside the boundaries of what was possible in reality), how do you realign everything in 1995 to save the year from the depths it sunk to?

As always, we'll be reading the best feedback/ideas on the show and crediting you accordingly. So what would you have done?

 

EDIT - The show discussing Fixing The WWF in 1995 and taking your feedback, is now online and available to listen to at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/6yfk8e/SCGRadio64-FixingTheWWFin1995.mp3

[NotJayTabb]

The main area that needs focus is on the world title, and that means making a few changes to Diesel. I wouldn't be opposed to him having a long term reign, but it needed to play to his strengths. Nash wasn't convincing as a smiling baby face - his look and promo style require him to have a bit more edge. The guy is dressed in black, for goodness sake, he needed to be an edgier character and times had changed since the 80's - having a badass face champion could definitely get over.

 

Don't book him vs Bret at the Rumble - it's his first PPV title defence and going to a non finish (or worse, winning) against someone the fans like more is a big no. You need to give him a comprehensive win over an upper mid carder - maybe Owen or Backlund. Give him the Michaels match at Mania, but don't let Michaels control as much of the match. Make Michaels sneaker, hiding behind Sid and cowering from Diesel. Basically make the fans want to see him get beaten up.

 

The heel pool was pretty thin, so building guys up would be a must. King Mabel should never have happened- use Feb/Mar/Apr to tone down the goofy country singer aspects of Jeff Jarrett's gimmick, give him a push to the KotR and book Diesel vs Jarrett for Summerslam. Jarrett is another guy who can make fans want to see him get beaten, It'd be a better match than Diesel vs Mabel and it wouldn't hamper most of Nash's moveset due to being too heavy to lift.

 

There's loads that could be said for the undercard, but the big issues need to start from the top.

[C.S.]

The heel pool was pretty thin, so building guys up would be a must. King Mabel should never have happened- use Feb/Mar/Apr to tone down the goofy country singer aspects of Jeff Jarrett's gimmick, give him a push to the KotR and book Diesel vs Jarrett for Summerslam. Jarrett is another guy who can make fans want to see him get beaten, It'd be a better match than Diesel vs Mabel and it wouldn't hamper most of Nash's moveset due to being too heavy to lift.

 

I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree with this. Of course Mabel shouldn't have happened, but Jarrett wouldn't have been a great substitute (and I like Jarrett). Much better match, obviously, so there's that - but no one would've believed that Jarrett would actually win the title (just as they didn't believe Mabel would win). That was the problem with most of Diesel's defenses, and this era in general. Definitely build guys up, but create believable heels who could plausibly take the title. Too many PPVs were main evented by champion vs. midcard heel who has zero chance in hell of winning.

 

Also, on the one hand, you say to tone down the goofy country music aspect of Jarrett's character, but on the other hand, that would only be replaced by the midcard goof "King" gimmick, which every heel played up to maximum silliness. Only face KOTRs (Bret, Austin, etc.) were allowed to avoid the silly costume and "royal" trappings.

[Death From Above]

Just looking over the PPV results of the year, did they make a big mistake turning Bigelow face? As others will say they were so thin for top heels. Basically, they kicked Bigelow out of the Million Dollar Corporation for Sid, but Sid wasn't really around that much longer. Bigelow would have given you at least one other credible, big monster for Deisel, and Bigelow was good in the ring too. Bigelow ended up in that feud with Tatanka (who really seemed to flop as a heel if I remember right) and it just feels like with hindsight sub-par use of a pretty useful piece of the puzzle.

 

I'm not saying this "fixes" the year by itself by any means, but it might have been a bit better as a start.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I would have turned Luger heel, and had him win the 1995 Rumble to set that up as the Mania match. Michaels wasn't ready to main event yet, and Luger was being wasted by this point.

[Matt D]

Turn Razor. It basically fixes everything.

[Infinit]

They shouldn't have burned through the Sid feud so quickly (and on the IYH ppvs) and have Sid vs Diesel main event Summerslam.

[Slasher]

 

 

The heel pool was pretty thin, so building guys up would be a must. King Mabel should never have happened- use Feb/Mar/Apr to tone down the goofy country singer aspects of Jeff Jarrett's gimmick, give him a push to the KotR and book Diesel vs Jarrett for Summerslam. Jarrett is another guy who can make fans want to see him get beaten, It'd be a better match than Diesel vs Mabel and it wouldn't hamper most of Nash's moveset due to being too heavy to lift.

Also, on the one hand, you say to tone down the goofy country music aspect of Jarrett's character, but on the other hand, that would only be replaced by the midcard goof "King" gimmick, which every heel played up to maximum silliness. Only face KOTRs (Bret, Austin, etc.) were allowed to avoid the silly costume and "royal" trappings.

Austin wasn't a face when he won the KOTR. In fact he proves the argument wrong that you couldn't have a serious heel KOTR winner. It is just how you book them. Owen was an egomaniac with comedic undertones so he was silly with his win. Mabel, I don't know what they were thinking with that but I doubt he was meant to be a joke really.

 

About Diesel, his problem besides being booked like a total babyface, was that he essentially took the belt from a guy the fans respected a lot in Bret Hart. Yes he actually beat Bob Backlund for it but it was right after Bob won it from Bret and I don't think he had a fair enough opportunity to win it back from Backlund before Diesel swooped in. Its not a big deal in the grand scope of things but all those little things counts. Having to face Bret and then a Shawn Michael hellbent on turning himself babyface against the intention of the gameplan so early in his reign did not help. His first real decent feud since winning was against Sid, which was the spring-a good 6 to 7 months into his reign. Then Mabel? Not good at all.

[C.S.]

Austin wasn't a face when he won the KOTR. In fact he proves the argument wrong that you couldn't have a serious heel KOTR winner. It is just how you book them.

 

Yeah, total brain fart on my part. But I have to believe they saw something in Stone Cold by then. Even if they didn't yet envision him as the standard bearer of the company, they had to know there was something there. So, saddling him with a hokey crown gimmick would've been counterproductive. I agree that it worked for Owen.

 

I disagree with whoever suggested Bigelow. The guy was a career midcarder who was never credible as anything more than that. His run in ECW and feud with Goldberg are proof of that. I liked Bam Bam a lot, but he had a ceiling, and midcard was it. When he won the ECW World Title, it only dragged down the prestige of that belt and made it seem less important IMO. As for the Goldberg feud, no one in their right mind thought Bigelow had a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and he didn't.

 

The real solution here: Give Backlund a real reign and have Diesel take it in a similar surprise house show win a few months later. That way, he's beaten a heel with actual momentum, and there's more time for real feuds instead of filler opponents that stack the deck against his reign.

[Slasher]

Bam Bam might have only been a guy with midcard as a ceiling but you cannot deny that he was a guy who was hurt by a nonsensical babyface turn. I don't think he would have had a good run as a heel if he was going to lose to Lawrence Taylor, but that was something that definitely hurt his potential ceiling as a heel, doing those things back to back. If Bam Bam wasn't booked to face LT and he was allowed to be the monster he was earlier on, I think his place in the WWF at the time would have been more valuable than what it ended up being and he most definitely could have been a viable Diesel challenger...at least better him than MABEL.

[C.S.]

Bam Bam might have only been a guy with midcard as a ceiling but you cannot deny that he was a guy who was hurt by a nonsensical babyface turn. I don't think he would have had a good run as a heel if he was going to lose to Lawrence Taylor, but that was something that definitely hurt his potential ceiling as a heel, doing those things back to back. If Bam Bam wasn't booked to face LT and he was allowed to be the monster he was earlier on, I think his place in the WWF at the time would have been more valuable than what it ended up being and he most definitely could have been a viable Diesel challenger...at least better him than MABEL.

 

"Better than Mabel" is a pretty bottom of the barrel designation. You could plug anybody into that category. Even Brooklyn Brawler would be "better than Mabel" - or at least more interesting. That doesn't make Bam Bam a viable or good choice. The LT loss and face turn didn't help, but you could also argue that main eventing WrestleMania with LT was the highlight of Bigelow's career, his most interesting feud, and a lot higher than he was ever going to reach otherwise. All three are true, in a way.

[Slasher]

It is as true as the idea that Big Show's biggest match would be the one against Mayweather as he managed to morph into some kind of avatar of all the good things that a pro wrestler offered to the mainstream fan compared to the unbelievably heel-like persona that Mayweather was becoming in his rise in fame. It doesn't mean it did anything good for him besides finding a reason to develop his knockout punch finish. Just because being put up against LT in a celebrity match gave him exposure doesn't mean it was a positive for him going forward. The loss being used as a catalyst for a babyface turn involving him getting rejected by the evil stable for being a loser and having Diesel have to save his ass effectively put an end to Bam Bam, period. There is a difference between Bam Bam and the Brooklyn Brawler who was never put in a position to be taken seriously like ever. Sure, Mabel was scrapping the bottom of the barrel as far as finding world title challengers but Bam Bam would have definitely gone much further in a title program if you even just plug him in Mabel's booking trajectory from February (before the LT feud) to Summerslam when Mabel got his title shot. I am not saying he would have been a world champion caliber guy or anything but if they were gonna slum for a summer challenger, Bam Bam really wouldn't have been a bad choice at all. Though personally I think they should have had Owen Hart or Undertaker or DB Smith in the role anyways.

[NotJayTabb]

 

The heel pool was pretty thin, so building guys up would be a must. King Mabel should never have happened- use Feb/Mar/Apr to tone down the goofy country singer aspects of Jeff Jarrett's gimmick, give him a push to the KotR and book Diesel vs Jarrett for Summerslam. Jarrett is another guy who can make fans want to see him get beaten, It'd be a better match than Diesel vs Mabel and it wouldn't hamper most of Nash's moveset due to being too heavy to lift.

 

I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree with this. Of course Mabel shouldn't have happened, but Jarrett wouldn't have been a great substitute (and I like Jarrett). Much better match, obviously, so there's that - but no one would've believed that Jarrett would actually win the title (just as they didn't believe Mabel would win). That was the problem with most of Diesel's defenses, and this era in general. Definitely build guys up, but create believable heels who could plausibly take the title. Too many PPVs were main evented by champion vs. midcard heel who has zero chance in hell of winning.

 

Also, on the one hand, you say to tone down the goofy country music aspect of Jarrett's character, but on the other hand, that would only be replaced by the midcard goof "King" gimmick, which every heel played up to maximum silliness. Only face KOTRs (Bret, Austin, etc.) were allowed to avoid the silly costume and "royal" trappings.

 

I suggested Jarrett as it's hard to think of heels in the WWF at the time who were credible AND could put on a decent match with Diesel. For example, I'd buy Sid or Bundy against Diesel, but I wouldn't buy a PPV to watch it. Jarrett was IC champion and was credible enough to have a competitive PPV match with Shawn Michaels later in the year, so a bit more build and a few tweeks (better haircut, less goofy outfits) would make him a credible challenger for the 2nd biggest show of the year. As regards KotR, I'd have him avoid the goofy aspects of the title, but instead play up the fact he beat 3 men in one night, and maybe use it as an excuse to add a few regal colours to his attire (purples, gold) to make him look a bit more dignified.

[Slasher]

Jeff Jarrett is a guy who the KOTR designation would have meant corniness or cheese in his character. Adding royal colors to his gaudy get up wouldn't have helped at all. Also, this may be odd to say but Jarrett was a credible challenger to Shawn Michaels only because Shawn was a big bumping heel/high selling babyface. He was never booked on the strength of his offense or ability to beat people. The name of the game for him was to survive onslaughts by big faces and heels and hit his spots at the right time for close victories. He only became marketed as a winning type wrestler when he started his world title push in 1996. You just can't book Diesel the same way as you did Shawn Michaels against Jeff Jarrett. Diesel has always been booked as a guy who was a heavy hitter and probably a big reason why Shawn won anything as his second. He was booked at the Royal Rumble to be one of the biggest offensive threats in the WWF. What can Jeff Jarrett even possibly do against that? A simpler way to look at it is- is Jeff Jarrett a credible challenger to the Undertaker? Sid? World champion era Yokozuna? The answer is no-and Diesel was being pushed as a guy on that level.

[Gregor]

I like the idea of the Bigelow feud. For that to work, Bigelow probably would have to win the title, or else he'd look like a choker. He could take it at the first IYH (which would establish that important things could happen on those shows) and then lose it back to Diesel at SummerSlam. From there, either the renewed push keeps a capable wrestler in the promotion longer than it did in actual 1995, or he still does jobs on the way out, but they mean a little bit more because the guys defeating him get wins over an ex-champion.

 

I don't think you can focus on challengers who would have good matches with Diesel. If you've made Kevin Nash your champion, then you've already decided to sacrifice main event match quality for whatever qualities you think he provides as champion. It's more important that your challengers look like threats, a difficult proposition when you have a seven-foot champion.

[JRH]

I wonder if it would be possible to turn Undertaker heel in 1995. He was pretty much spinning his wheels during that year, so a heel turn would be something at least. He also had credibility so he could feud with the top guys like Diesel, Bret, Razor, and Michaels. I would have changed his character though, make him darker (not ministry-era style darker mind you) and get rid of the campy horror movie aspects of his character like the coffins and such. Maybe even have him turn on Paul Bearer and take him off tv (he could still work backstage as a road agent).

[Bierschwale]

I think that Jarrett works if you actually give him a full royal band of merrymakers. It's not Diesel vs. Jarrett, it's Diesel vs. Jarrett, The Roadie, the Blu Twins, Dutch, plus Lawler and any of his cronies. Really any white guy who was in Memphis/SMW who wasn't nailed down could be brought up as a fool for Diesel (and Bret, connecting the Lawler feud) to have to wreck while dumb-ass King Jeff plays the mouse.

[The Following Contest]

I always thought a Diesel heel turn against Bret Hart at the Royal Rumble could have set up a nice Bret vs. the scheming Shawn and Diesel angle culminating with face Bret beating heel Diesel at Wrestlemania and then setting up Bret/Shawn for Summerslam. It would have screwed with what eventually happened in 1996, but I think Bret-Diesel and then Bret-Shawn > Shawn-Diesel, Mabel-Diesel.

[Slasher]

When did they turn Diesel face officially? In hindsight he probably would have been better off being a heel going into a title reign. They worked the Mania match as if Shawn was the babyface and Diesel was the unsympathetic figure. You could have had Shawn turn babyface officially first with the Sid angle, have Sid terrorize him a bit longer then finally have Diesel turn babyface in his save. This way you have a cleaner matchup at both the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania since Diesel wasn't gonna take the majority of the cheers anyways and still be able to run 6 months or so more of Diesel the babyface (if absolutely necessary) champion with a clearer rogue's gallery of heels to work with.

 

Jeff Jarrett has done nothing to earn the status of a guy with a fairly large stable behind him. Plus wasn't the Million Dollar Corporation around too? Could be rather redundant to have two heel stables that size running around. If you absolutely must book Diesel vs Jarrett for the belt, you should just have the Million Dollar Corporation taking him on as a valued member who DiBiase has identified as the best chance of bringing the belt to his stable. It would tie in nicely with the corporation feuding with Diesel.

 

I thought Bam Bam would have been a good challenger to Diesel but actually putting him over during the Diesel push? Not gonna work. Diesel really should have the belt for as long as he did. It was really only the best way to feature him as a top level main eventer. Cutting his long legs underneath him to put the belt on Bam Bam is a quick admission that Diesel isn't the guy. He either needs to win it when he did and have that run OR not even give him the belt until later on, perhaps during his tweener heel run taking it from Shawn instead of Sid but obviously he was gone to WCW by then anyways.

[Gregor]

I thought Bam Bam would have been a good challenger to Diesel but actually putting him over during the Diesel push? Not gonna work. Diesel really should have the belt for as long as he did. It was really only the best way to feature him as a top level main eventer. Cutting his long legs underneath him to put the belt on Bam Bam is a quick admission that Diesel isn't the guy. He either needs to win it when he did and have that run OR not even give him the belt until later on, perhaps during his tweener heel run taking it from Shawn instead of Sid but obviously he was gone to WCW by then anyways.

There are plenty of reasons why it might not have worked, but I don't see Diesel needing the belt for a full twelve months as one of them. Bigelow can win through some form of cheating/interference, and then you have Diesel getting revenge and chasing the belt for a few months, stuff he'd never done before. It's a more compelling motivation than he had for any of his actual title defenses that year, and, if nothing else, it forces the WWF to book a heel strongly, something they totally failed to do in the first half of the year (and really didn't truly accomplish until Diesel's turn).

 

The WWF still had the mentality that face champions needed long runs at that point, but they weren't that far away from shedding that view, and it's not like their fans had trouble at first accepting top faces who didn't have long reigns. If Diesel doing a pair of title switches really would have signaled that he wasn't the guy, well, that's how it ended up in real life, too. The reality upon which we're trying to improve is one in which a guy has a weak run on top, jumps to the rival company shortly thereafter, and plays a big role in pushing them ahead for a while. How much worse could things go? I can't imagine there are many hypothetical scenarios in which things turn out worse for the WWF than they actually did.

[Slasher]

So because things turned out a certain way, it is ok to undermine the spirit of his push? I don't get that. Diesel was booked as a big time force in the WWF up to his title reign. He was supposed to be the next big thing. Not Shawn Michaels. Not Bret Hart. Diesel. You admitted that the WWF booked their babyface aces as long term champions. You don't think deviating from their obvious formula for a 7 foot 300 pound badass and having him lose the belt in quick fashion isn't severely undercutting the nature of his push? That is like WCW booking Bill Goldberg to go undefeated and winning the belt only to lose it to someone like Lex Luger a month later. Bam Bam isn't the guy you want Diesel chasing. There is nothing inherently interesting about Bam Bam as something equal to a cowardly heel champion or whatever the hell you are suggesting here. Bam Bam is a Hogan era monster heel challenger of the month type guy. He's not the one you break from script to wreck Diesel's push for. In fact, the only dude that they could try that tack with is Shawn Michaels due to the nature of their relationship and Shawn being much better equipped to slide into the shithead heel champion that plays keepaway with the belt from Diesel. So no I guess it isn't sacrilegous to claim that its ok to take the belt off Diesel in quick fashion, but I can't see how it can possibly be a good thing to do either. Again, it doesn't matter that he ended up going to WCW or that the WWF would soon thereafter change how they booked guys on the top of the cards. That wasn't their plan in 1995. They fully intended for Diesel to break out and be the next Hogan. They intended for him to be involved with the championship and overall main events for the next however many years. It didn't work out. So they changed their thinking and made Shawn their guy. They saw Diesel walk out for a big money deal that they had no intention of anticipating the night they put the belt on him. Everything that happened was a result of their failure to get him over enough in a pitch perfect way. But giving the belt to Bam Bam would most absolutely not have been a better outcome for anybody at all except Bigelow himself. Bam Bam wasn't a guy they were going to buy tickets for. There is no need or reason to go against their deep rooted philosophy to try something different with Diesel the babyface ace for a contrived chase against Bam f'n Bam. Diesel is a guy who if he has to chase people, it is a big monster threat like Sid or an undead zombie like Undertaker or a conniving former best friend who is a coward and will resort to any tricks to stay alive like Shawn...not a guy someone here called a midcarder and a mid tier corporation guy who lost to Lawrence Taylor. And by the way, one last thing...Diesel is the world champion. People want to be the world champion. Hence he has to defend his title. That is all the motivation you need in the world to be compelling enough if his challenger is compelling enough to begin with and not 1/2 of a midcard tag team who won the KOTR in one of the poorest moves they would make in that era.

[Bigelow34]

Just looking over the PPV results of the year, did they make a big mistake turning Bigelow face? As others will say they were so thin for top heels. Basically, they kicked Bigelow out of the Million Dollar Corporation for Sid, but Sid wasn't really around that much longer. Bigelow would have given you at least one other credible, big monster for Deisel, and Bigelow was good in the ring too. Bigelow ended up in that feud with Tatanka (who really seemed to flop as a heel if I remember right) and it just feels like with hindsight sub-par use of a pretty useful piece of the puzzle.

 

I'm not saying this "fixes" the year by itself by any means, but it might have been a bit better as a start.

 

Funny enough Sid actually outlasted Bigelow. Bammer left in November, Sid in January.

 

I do think Bigelow could have stayed heel a touch longer and been Diesel's first challenger. After he fails, THEN DiBiase boots him for losing to LT and Diesel. Then you can do the Sid stuff from there with their first match at KOTR, some sort of tag at IYH2 and a blowoff at SummerSlam. The Sid matches were not that great but certainly were more passable than Mabel and Sid was at least a believable threat.

[Gregor]

So because things turned out a certain way, it is ok to undermine the spirit of his push?

Yes, exactly. Diesel's title run was a flop critically and financially. Who cares about the spirit of a push like that? I get what you're saying, but we have an actual reality in which they stayed the course/trusted the process/kept the faith/whatever cliche you want to use, and with six more months of a strong push the guy didn't take.

 

Would Bam Bam briefly on top change anything? Probably not. I liked the idea just because it meant that they'd have gotten more out of their roster than they actually did, when they pretty much wasted Bigelow after WM. He was a big, scary dude who got some slight mainstream attention. Why not try to do something with that? Saying that he was just a midcarder isn't really convincing. He was a midcarder because that's what they made him. I don't know if they could have removed the stigma of the loss to LT in time for a switch before SummerSlam; that's a genuine concern.

 

And by the way, one last thing...Diesel is the world champion. People want to be the world champion. Hence he has to defend his title. That is all the motivation you need in the world to be compelling enough if his challenger is compelling enough to begin with and not 1/2 of a midcard tag team who won the KOTR in one of the poorest moves they would make in that era.

Mabel wasn't the only challenger who flopped against him. It's like the saying about how if everyone you meet is a jerk then chances are that you need to look in the mirror. Diesel clearly wasn't compelling enough for his title defenses to be interesting on their own. I suggested that, after six months with the belt, he spend three months getting revenge and chasing the belt. That's a new situation for him, and maybe that would've sparked some interest. It might not have been enough motivation to get people excited, but it was more motivation than he got.

 

No, it doesn't conform to 1995 WWF's ideas about face champions. That doesn't mean that the best answer is to give Diesel the same risk-free reign but with slightly better challengers. It's not like his run was this close to being a success, and maybe it would have worked if only he'd had better opposition (and, again, they didn't seem to know how to build up doomed challengers anyway). The Goldberg/Luger comparison was unfair. Six months is a lot longer than one, Diesel wasn't undefeated and thus didn't have a large part of his appeal based on that, and Goldberg was far more over.

[C.S.]

The problem with this thread, and all of the other ones like it, is that everyone re-books a reign, territory, etc. with a modern revisionist mentality. "Let's have so-and-so drop the title for a few months to this not over at all but we like him flavor of the month heel." No! That kind of shit did not happen in 1995. In 1998, yes. Now, yes. Back then, no.

 

Bam Bam as a challenger would've been a box office flop, LT loss or not. The guy was never anything more than a midcard act. Like I posted earlier, when he won the ECW World Title, it devalued that belt for me. Don't get me wrong, I liked Bam Bam, but he had a ceiling regardless of whatever "what if" scenarios people want to pose.

[Matt D]

The answer is still heel Razor paired with Dibiase, and probably eventually usurping him.