Guest EastCoastJ Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I started this thread over at the DVDR too, but I am particularly interested in some of your opinions on this as a lot of people over here seem like they watch a lot of television runs from 1980's territories. I was watching an old Memphis run of tapes from 1984 and 1985 over the weekend and I had forgotten just how awesome the Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage feud was. Both guys were just fantastic in every single aspect of their game at the time. I was trying to figure out who was more impressive and I was having a really tough time. So, the question posed, in their prime, whenever that might be for you personally, who was the better all around performer? I've got to go with Randy Savage by the slightest margin possible. At his absolute peak (1985-1989) I think he was maybe as good all around as anyone that I have ever seen. He just has this incredible energy that jumps through the screen and was so athletic, which is pretty much the only thing I could come up with that would edge him past Lawler. It's such a tough call though. Who would everyone go for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 6 months ago, I would have said Savage without blinking. Now, aftter having seen Lawler's work covering the 70s up until early 90s, there is no doubt in my mind Lawler was the better performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I'm looking forward to this best match project because I want to see what the best matches from there are. Currently, I hate a good deal of Memphis wrestling and I want to see if that will change. It's going to be tough to beat Savage though. He was awesome in that WWF DVDVR set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Both had pros: Lawler One of the best face brawlers ever. Great emotion in matches. Savage Innovated heavyweight pro wrestling in the U.S., crazy over at times, worked great as a heel when with Elizabeth. Both had cons: Lawler Couldn't really wrestle worth a shit. Wrestled the same match pattern year after year, time after time eclipsed in sheer formula only by Hulk Hogan in modern wrestling history. Savage Couldn't call out a match to save his life. Was better in terms of fan response with Elizabeth, wasn't really tip top until she was with him. Great when he was smaller, skills quickly eroded when he put on more size after his first WWF title reign. To answer the question: So, the question posed, in their prime, whenever that might be for you personally, who was the better all around performer? In a regional sense, Lawler is almost untouchable by anybody. There are few that are even in his ballpark as a beloved regional star. His great in ring performances (even if they were all the same) led to stuff like 75 shares on local television and the stellar Kaufman stuff. On a national level, Savage is by far the better performer. When he was put on the big stage, he ran with it, overcoming the prime of Hulkamania to carve his own niche in the WWF through genuine fan adoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 If anything, my opinion of Savage has gotten *worse* since seeing the DVDVR matches. He's great when he wants to be, but he's so inconsistent and it's frustrating. He was capable of working two types of matches -- lighthearted spotfests like the one against Steamboat at Wrestlemania III, and matches where he played pinball for a bigger guy, like his matches with Hogan. Those have their advantage, but he just wasn't all that versatile beyond that. I used to think Savage was the type that could work with anyone, but after watching the set, I'm now convinced he was a guy that could only work with guys who weren't that good in the first place. When he's in with a peer, his performance tends to suffer. The only time I think he's really produced a great match against a true peer was against Steamboat in Toronto on 07/27/86, a match I *much* prefer to Wrestlemania III. I'm not saying he's a bad worker by any means, I'm just saying that matches that look awesome on paper for Savage rarely are, while the ones that look questionable are usually pretty good. How can he have better matches with Hogan and Warrior than Steamboat, Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Jake Roberts and Bad News Brown? I don't understand it. Contrasting that, I enjoy Lawler's game a lot. He does a lot less than Savage in the ring, but he does it so well and has mastered his schtick so much that he's created a style that would work with anyone. He very well may be the only guy I can think of who has legitimate claim to being both the best face of all time and the best heel of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweetMama Scaat Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Can you guys give some details and elaborations on Lawler during this time period. All I remember is him fighting the Moondogs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Matches of Lawler's that are must-see: Lawler v Terry Funk 08/81 Lawler v Dutch Mantel 2/7/82 Lawler v Dutch Mantel 2/14/82 Lawler v Dutch Mantel 3/1/82 Lawler v Bill Dundee 6/6/83 Lawler v Bill Dundee 10/19/85 Lawler v Bill Dundee 12/30/85 Lawler/Mantel v Dundee/Landell 3/24/86 Lawler v Austin Idol 4/27/87 I'm still working through a lot of the Lawler I have, actually, but this is all excellent stuff I think everyone should see. I've reviewed the majority of these matches in my pinned thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 What are these DVDVR matches I keep hearing about? Could someone fill me in? --- I'm going to say Savage/Steamboat > Lawler/Kerry Von Erich. The coolest thing about Lawler was he could make you believe that he really hated who ever he was fueding with. His matches seemed real at times like you were actually watching two men beat the shit out of eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 DVDVR is doing a Best of the 80s project, territory by territory, and they started with a 100-match WWF set for everyone to rank, in order. I saw lots of Savage I hadn't seen before after watching that set and my opinion of him changed a little. And Savage/Steamboat is better than Lawler/Von Erich, but the Wrestlemania III match is still a lighthearted spotfest with no in-ring story to speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 And Savage/Steamboat is better than Lawler/Von Erich, but the Wrestlemania III match is still a lighthearted spotfest with no in-ring story to speak of. Steamboat has commented on this. Going in to the match, Savage and Steamboat knew they were only getting 13 minutes and both wanted to get as much "stuff" in as possible to steal the show. You can tell that the match is more of a "Macho Man" match as they clearly had choreographed the match before hand and were going to cram as many spots as they could in those 13 minutes. The thought of there being a "spotfest" in 80s WWF doesn't sound right, but these two pulled it off. On the Best of the 80s DVD, Steamboat comments on the match and although it is not overt, you can tell he isn't as high on the match as many others and would have liked to have more time with Randy like he did with Flair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I do think Savage and Steamboat had a great, bloody, hate-filled match that took its time developing in Toronto on 07/27/86. That's the match I wish WM3 had been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 And Savage/Steamboat is better than Lawler/Von Erich, but the Wrestlemania III match is still a lighthearted spotfest with no in-ring story to speak of.Agreed. All through the 80s and early 90s I was as quick as anyone to call Savage and Steamboat as good as wrestling got, but the match doesn't stand the test of time for shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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