Billy Goelz and other 50s finds

[ohtani's jacket]

The WWE had a false copyright claim on that match. The guy who sponsored the Gunkel match brought it to their attention and they were able to reverse it.

Apparently, the next match he is sponsoring is either Jack Desek vs Fritz Von Schacht or Rocky Columbo vs Larry Chene.

These matches aren't on the list that Ken Viewer made. I will keep digging for a better list. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Here is the list of stuff that hasn't been transferred -- http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=005317

[fxnj]

The Thesz/Silverstein match was uploaded before but got blocked by WWE because some indy dude named Ruffy Silverstein had a WWE tryout once. Well worth a watch for anyone that hasn't seen it before. Steve Yohe did an excellent write-up on it.

[ohtani's jacket]

@Matt D You really need to check out the new upload of Crybaby Bill Corby. Brilliantly entertaining match. The great Jack Little says the fans at the Hollywood Legion are eating it up -- "this is their whipped cream on the apple pie." Corby is your kind of heel, and there are a group of ladies at ringside who get heavily involved. I don't know if the guy who runs this YouTube channel still lurks here, but this upload was a delight. Thanks, buddy! Los Angeles was the best. 

[Matt D]

10 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

@Matt D You really need to check out the new upload of Crybaby Bill Corby. Brilliantly entertaining match. The great Jack Little says the fans at the Hollywood Legion are eating it up -- "this is their whipped cream on the apple pie." Corby is your kind of heel, and there are a group of ladies at ringside who get heavily involved. I don't know if the guy who runs this YouTube channel still lurks here, but this upload was a delight. Thanks, buddy! Los Angeles was the best. 

Will do. Thanks for the heads up.

[Matt D]

Yeah, that was about eight minutes of pure entertainment. He's definitely my kind of heel, always on, totally committed, and able to be both dangerous and credible with his offense and a complete coward when he loses advantage. He was lightning quick when taking offense, like how he was ready for Lawrence's initial somersault, but then he was just as quick to try to dive behind the ref when the tide turned. And the fans responded accordingly. A group of female fans in the front row throwing jelly beans at a heel because he tried to pull the tights to get a pin is the most 1950s Americana thing possible. Thanks for the heads' up.

[ohtani's jacket]

Another Classics poster has sponsored some Chicago footage. Thanks, Matthew Gromala. The matches are Verne Gagne & Bobby Bruns vs. Al Williams & Rudy Kay (5/12/50) and Lou Thesz vs. Bronko Nagurski (10/5/51.)

The tag match is fun. Al Williams and Rudy Kay were two of Russ Davis' favourites, and he actually has some decent one-liners for a change. Williams and Kay control the bout for the most bout, and the faces mostly retaliate, but it's good fun. Gagne doesn't do a whole lot since it's mainly a heat seeking brawl, but he's super young and super fit. 

I liked Thesz vs. Nagurski. It was minimalist, but I enjoyed watching Thesz sell for Nagurski. Nagurksi was well past his prime, but a monster. It was fun watching Thesz figure him out. 

[Al]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 6:45 PM, fxnj said:

The Thesz/Silverstein match was uploaded before but got blocked by WWE because some indy dude named Ruffy Silverstein had a WWE tryout once. Well worth a watch for anyone that hasn't seen it before. Steve Yohe did an excellent write-up on it.

A jobber in 1985 used the name Jim Londos. The chutzpah is admirable.

[JustYourAvgBozo]

On 2/3/2020 at 7:52 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Gypsy Joe vs. Leon Kirilenko wasn't the famous Gypsy Joe. This guy had a wild Ron Jeremy look that seemed out of keeping with the 1950s. It reminded me of Baron Michele Leone. These guys tumbled about for a bit but didn't have a license to really get going. 

I enjoyed the match because Joe was heeling it up so much, the fans would rather cheer a Russian than him. Lol.

Watching Joe made me think of my dad, who passed in 2005, so I have a Gypsy Joe story from him for everyone (Ferdinando Carmine Mucciolli is his birth name, later changed to Joe Dorsetti); it involves Billy Goelz as well. (Because "of course it does"; these two were each others' most-frequent opponent.)

My dad was a pre-teen in early 1950s Kenosha, Wisconsin (right on Lake Michigan just above the Illinois state line) and he had a buddy who was not exactly the kind of guy you'd want your kid hanging around with. (Spoiler: Guy would grow up to end up in and out of jail a few times. Dad still kept in touch with letters.)

One evening, they're walking around town (Dad lived over a tavern on 53rd Street with his mom & stepdad) and see a big commotion at the local Italian-American Club; which was about the size of your VFW or American Legion halls. They're having wrestling that night. His buddy found a way to sneak in through the back door and my dad went in with him. Nobody said a word about them sneaking in.

They had a couple of matches, nothing he'd remember. (Most smaller shows only had 3 matches; main event was almost always 2-of-3 falls, especially if a title plays into it.)

Then the main event, Gypsy Joe versus "The Mayor Of Fox Lake [Illinois]" Billy Goelz. (Yes, they would announce him as that. Don't think it's for real; he's just that synonymous with the town.) A title may have been involved; possibly the Midwest Jr. Heavyweight belt-they fought for it constantly. (Dad could never recall the town Billy was from until I found his info online in the early-2000s and asked "Fox Lake?" "THAT'S IT!")

Joe was a staller. Like Gorgeous George, don't touch him until he's ready. Jaw at the fans who booed him. His valet would help him with his robes and sashes. (Also was his wife, something a future tag partner of his would use as part of his gimmick: The Sheik Of Araby. Joe and Sheik would win the first set of Midwestern Tag Titles later on.)

Billy is getting steamed having to wait for this. He wants to wrestle.

Joe holds off, then the bell rings to start. They lock up. Joe shoves him away. He flexes. (He's got a basic 1950s look: kinda flabby. Think Rusev.) Fans boo. My dad and his buddy join them.

Joe sees my dad and his friend. He steps out of the ring and calls them over. "Hey kids," Joe bellows, "come here a minute!" They come down to ringside. Joe flexes an arm. "Check the muscle. Show these fans how strong I am!"

Dad's buddy gives the bicep a squeeze, then stands back so my dad gets a chance. Joe laughs, "Haah ha! See! All muscle here! Tell them!"

My dad and his friend walk back up the aisle. Get halfway up. Dad turns, sees Joe still gloating. Crowd gets kinda quiet, getting bored with this. Then my dad yells, "Ah, it's like a marshmallow!"

Fans started laughing and pointing at Gypsy Joe. Joe takes a step like he's gonna go after them. My dad and his buddy run out the front door.

Obviously he doesn't know who won, but he remembered that moment after all that time. I've heard the story a bunch of times, and I believe it 100%. (Honestly, if he was gonna lie, he could have said Buddy Rogers was involved, not Gypsy Joe & Billy Goelz; two guys I have never even heard of until I started doing title history research. It adds up, even if the card isn't listed. But they did wrestle in Kenosha every so often, and Dad would go. Even if he snuck in...lol.)

Edited July 20, 2020 by JustYourAvgBozo
More detail on background

[ohtani's jacket]

Nice story!

There's a few more Gypsy Joe and Billy Goelz matches in the Davis collection. Hopefully, they see the light of day at some point. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The latest sponsored video from the CFA is Larry Chene vs. Rocky Columbo. Chene is a guy we have a few matches from. Columbo is a guy we had no footage of. The sponsor chose this match because he wanted to see him wrestle. They work a long 30 minute draw. They do some nice wrestling but it's a slow bout and you don't get a lot of the sound from the area, so you're stuck in the booth with Davis. The match is in colour.

[Matt D]

59 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

The latest sponsored video from the CFA is Larry Chene vs. Rocky Columbo. Chene is a guy we have a few matches from. Columbo is a guy we had no footage of. The sponsor chose this match because he wanted to see him wrestle. They work a long 30 minute draw. They do some nice wrestling but it's a slow bout and you don't get a lot of the sound from the area, so you're stuck in the booth with Davis. The match is in colour.

We'll hit it on Friday for NFF for a full review but I think you're underselling it. They really go hard in the first ten minutes and Chene has this way to make sure he bumps himself 30% more than he ought to at times. Davis seems to switch which one is which at times, mind you.

[ohtani's jacket]

May have been the mood I was in. I'll watch it again after your review. I was wrong about it being the only Columbo match we have. Apparently, there's a clip of him wrestling Mike Dibiase in Dallas.

[ohtani's jacket]

I haven't gotten around to revisiting the Chene match yet, but there's another sponsored upload from the Davis Collection. This time it's a women's match -- Rose Roman vs Ramona TeSelle. No sound, which might be a blessing. Typically solid women's match. Women's wrestling in the 50s was a lot different than people might expect. You'd think it would be all hair pulling and scratching, but they're technically sound wrestlers in the Mildred Burke ilk. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Y'know, I never watched Chene vs. Cholak before. What a fantastic bout. Cholak was fucking huge. An absolute beast. And he could wrestle too. But the working over he gave Chene, and Chene fighting to stay in the fight despite the cut. This was great stuff. 

[ohtani's jacket]

We have another sponsored match from the Russ Davis Collection -- Jean Noble vs. Joan Ballard (no sound.) Noble was the girl who did the Yulie Brynner gimmick. Nice action. Loved the takedowns and mat wrestling, as well as the brawling. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The CFA released a Hans Schmidt match in colour. Unfortunately, it's against Yukon Eric so it's pretty slow going, but at least you get to see Schmidt in living colour. 

[Matt D]

Has anyone actually e-mailed them on how much it is to restore a match and what else is in the collection waiting to be restored? In the video description, they say:

If you are interested in sponsoring the digitization and preservation of other matches from this collection, please e-mail [email protected].

[ohtani's jacket]

http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=005317

[Matt D]

Very interesting, thanks. So assuming that this was about half of the episode of the show with Dick the Bruiser vs Bill Melby too, that'd be $225-250 or so. There's still a lot left. In all honesty, probably $50,000 worth to transfer, at least, minus duplicates. Full matches from the 50s seem like a more worthwhile effort to crowdfund then the short and scattered 70s clips restorations, to be honest.

[ohtani's jacket]

Bobby Nelson & Bert Ruby vs. The Great Balbo & Sam Hallock (3/18/52)

This was a match from Fred Kohler's television show, Wrestling From Rainbo Arena, which aired on the ABC Network. The commentator was Wayne Griffith. The first two falls have some nice action. Ruby & Balbo were really good. Ruby was a barefoot Hungarian, and as we know, Hungarian wrestlers are generally excellent. About halfway through, Ruby & Balbo finally lock up and have a breathtaking exchange that is incredibly skillful. Things slow down a bit in the third fall, and the finish isn't the greatest, but definitely worth watching for Ruby & Balbo. I think we have a couple of other Balbo matches, but this is the only Ruby that I know of. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Don Arnold vs. Edmund Francis (10/30/52)
Bobby Ford and Robert Rouche vs. Ali Pasha and Tommy O'Toole (10/30/52)

This was more footage from Rainbo Arena. Arnold and Francis had a rugged encounter. I really liked the spot where Francis missed a punch in the corner and smashed his knuckles on the turnbuckle. Both guys took spills to the outside. Great camera angle from ringside. Match is JIP like the opening bouts on French Catch broadcasts, but looked like a good preliminary bout. The tag was two good-looking young guys vs two evil henchmen. Pasha we've seen a lot of in classic footage. O'Toole is in a Los Angeles match against Warren Bockwinkel. It was straight forward pro-wrestling, but I liked the way O'Toole worked over the young guys and the babyfaces had some decent flurries. Not a bad match. Wayne Griffith is a million times more tolerable than Pappy Davis. Hopefully some more of this Rainbo footage exists on 16mm film.

[ohtani's jacket]

Warren Bockwinkel vs. Billy Varga

Nick's old man was a savvy old bastard. This was a masterclass in a veteran worker frustrating a young, stronger opponent. At first glance, Varga should have won this, but he dropped the opening fall unexpectedly and was playing catch up the rest of the way. If you're a Nick Bockwinkel fan, you really ought to check out the old man. I'm sure you can find similarities between the two. Good, competitive match. 

[strobogo]

It's really interesting how common tap outs were for submissions in the 50s, all over the world. You'll see it in US, JWA, and French Catch pretty regularly in the 50s. I wonder when and why that went away in pro wrestling. I wonder why that went away in pro wrestling for so long before returning once MMA popped off in the US. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Billy "Red" Lyons vs. Hans Schmidt

This was a great little match. It was easily the best Schmidt match I've seen outside of Chicago, and also the best match of his I've seen from later in his career. They basically played a cat and mouse game of Schmidt pummeling Lyons and Lyons using his speed and quickness to escape. Really good small vs bigger man bout that wouldn't look out of place on today's screens. It was interesting to watch Schmidt work a quicker pace and scramble more. The finish was kind of unusual. Lyons was counted out because a female fan wouldn't let him back in the ring. I'm not sure if it was a plant or adlibbed. I assume if he was supposed to get back in the ring that he would have broken free. Perhaps he was supposed to be counted out from fatigue and the women was a genuinely concerned fan. In any event, a unique finish. 

Larry Chene vs. Bobby Nelson (1954)

This was a classic pro-wrestling story -- young, athletic guy gets frustrated by a wily veteran who knows all the tricks. Kohler used to run this sort of match up a lot, and Davis has a lot of experience commentating over these types of bouts. The difference here is that Chene can really fight. He looks fantastic as a back alley brawler to the point where you're glad to see him ditch the All-American shtick and abuse Nelson instead. They do this really cool spot where Chene has Nelson in a flying head scissors and Nelson falls backwards almost like a Samoan drop. Chene almost gets crushed from the impact but manages to hold onto the head scissors. The DQ finish was a joke given how much shit they'd done throughout the bout, but I still came away from this thinking Chene is a guy that needs to be on everyone's radar.