Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 If the WWE lived and breathed on their television product, they'd be dead. It's because their infrastructure is so strong and they have so many revenue-generating streams that it's still profitable. Shane is the one involved in putting the show on TV, he's in negotiations and meetings, he's making the business contacts, he's making deals for the show to be seen around the world so the WWE can go on international tours and actually make money. But shit, the guy doesn't decide whether Sheltons Mama is fat, black, and serious or fat, black, and loving. Which do you think is more fucking relevant to running the company? From WWEs corporate website. "Since July 2003, Shane has served as Executive Vice President of WWE Global Media, overseeing international TV distribution, live event bookings, digital media, consumer products and publishing." Stephs role is so much more limited than Shanes. Hers is with, as you said, "creative", but that doesn't necessarily correspond to what you were initially saying with ... It's also a good possibility that this kid will end up running WWE one day, since it seems like Steph and Hunter will inherit the lion's share of the operation when Vince die Unless Shane has a drastic change of mind in the next few years, it looks like Steph and her offspring will be the future of WWE. If you think that over-seeing the writing team is more important to the WWE than the business end, then I will stand by my original statement of ... You don't follow the company very much, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Well if Steph's booking drives the company into the ground like a lot of people claim it has been, it's gonna make Shane's job a lot harder. How's he gonna book international tours or live event bookings if no one wants to see the product his sister's putting on TV? He's already lost what was considered WWF/E's "home" in MSG. If she has people on her staff that piss off the talent to the point they leave, how's that going to help Shane? Everything that WWE does stems from what their creative department puts out. If you don't get that, then I have to pose the question of who's really not understanding the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 What Steph does is playschool, it doesn't take a lot of talent to do it. She's not really an integral part of the process. Most international tours don't have current television, the fans there go on the brand identity the WWE has developed over the past few decades as well as the novelty of going to a big wrestling show. If the WWE didn't have the outlets to get their television out there, then they could put on the best show ever and it wouldn't matter because no one would see it. The in-ring product couldn't have been what drove the WWE to it's success in the 80s and 90's simply because it (a)wasn't as good as its competitors and (b)wasn't very good, period. Obviously it had qualities that appealed to the masses, but what made the WWE different from everyone else at the time? Well, they had better marketing. Vince is a marketer. What Shane is doing right now? Marketing. Steph? Not so much. Vince was able to get his show out to more cable companies and on more televisions than anyone else and supported that with magazines, videos, merchandise, etc. That's what made the WWE different. That's what made them succeed. They had the infrastructure to support their product where other promotions didn't and soon fell to the wayside because they couldn't keep up. You take away Steph, you can find someone to replace her pretty easily. It used to be a 2 person job once upon a time. It's not exactly the hardest job in the world, there are probably a dozen people here who could do it better. Can you say the same for Shanes job? This is like discussing chess with a checkers player. Right now you're looking at the company on a singular level, you think what you see on TV is it and it's the most important thing in the business. It's not. It's been shitty for years and the ratings have declined as well as the buyrates yet the WWE is still profitable. There is clearly something else driving the company, there is more going on than what you see on TV. The person running the company in the future will need to know a lot more than what storylines are going on, doncha think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 What are the two moments that made the WWF/E what it is today? 1. Vince takes over from his dad and makes the creative descision to go towards guys like Hogan and Piper. Do you think Wrestlemania would have been a success with Bob Backlund and Pedro Morales in the main event? 2. Russo's creative team ditches the cartoon era for the Attitude Era. Case in point: Steve Austin, Ringmaster = Flop. Steve Austin, redneck asskicker who flips everyone off = biggest draw in wrestling history. Sure, marketing plays an important role. I'm not saying Shane doesn't have a key role in the company. What I'm saying is that what the marketing people promote depends on what the writers come up with. Look at the Lex Express. They marketed the hell out of that, and it failed. Why? Because it was a shitty creative move. It's been shitty for years and the ratings have declined as well as the buyrates yet the WWE is still profitable. The WWE is making money on international tours, because most of the places they've been going to hadn't seen live WWE programming for a long time if ever. They're coming out for what might be a once-in-a-lifetime event. The more they tour, the smaller the houses get. They're also making money on their DVD releases since they own almost all US wrestling footage from the 70s on up. How many DVD releases of recent PPVs are big sellers? It's mostly stuff like the Ric Flair set and the ECW releases. Other than WrestleMania, not much of the current product really sells a lot of units. You have to realize that the WWE is still profitable, but the amount shrinks every year. Houseshow attendance is getting embarrassingly small, TV has to go to smaller venues to keep up the appearance of a sellout crowd, and there's not a whole lot to suggest things are going to change anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 What are the two moments that made the WWF/E what it is today? 1. Vince takes over from his dad and makes the creative descision to go towards guys like Hogan and Piper. Do you think Wrestlemania would have been a success with Bob Backlund and Pedro Morales in the main event? Do you think Hogan and Piper would have been successful for the WWE if there wasn't a Wrestlemania? If McMahon didn't aggressively persue television stations across the country to get them to put his programming and only his programming on their channel? If McMahon didn't bring in "stars" from outside the business to bring in some added attention? I'd say there is a greater chance of success by having Bob Backlund in the Main Event at Wrestlemania than by having Hulk Hogan just do a bunch of non-televised live events. There's a reason why companies aren't competetive with the WWE today, and it's not because their creative isn't as good - it's because they don't have the television, and they don't have the capital. 2. Russo's creative team ditches the cartoon era for the Attitude Era. Case in point: Steve Austin, Ringmaster = Flop. Steve Austin, redneck asskicker who flips everyone off = biggest draw in wrestling history. Russo didn't even have a creative team, for one. It was him, Ed Ferrara, and Vince McMahon. And do you think, at any time, Vince McMahon would have said "Hey, Russo, I think it's time you run the entire company because you do a damn good job in writing dialogue for a porn star/wrestler?" And it was having Mike Tyson appear at WM 14, and all the publicity it got, which really helped launch the WWE to the next level. Publicity? Marketing. Sure, marketing plays an important role. I'm not saying Shane doesn't have a key role in the company. What I'm saying is that what the marketing people promote depends on what the writers come up with. Look at the Lex Express. They marketed the hell out of that, and it failed. Why? Because it was a shitty creative move. But when it comes to _running a company_, which do you think is more relevant: the ability to promote, or the ability to come up with creative ideas? Vince McMahon is not a very creative guy, that's clearly shown from his television. Vince McMahon is a helluva promoter. The Creative staff is a dime-a-dozen, it's something that can be exploited, but it's not what drives the company. Everything which takes the idea and puts it out there, THAT'S what drives the company, that's how they make money. The WWE is making money on international tours, because most of the places they've been going to hadn't seen live WWE programming for a long time if ever. They're coming out for what might be a once-in-a-lifetime event. The more they tour, the smaller the houses get. And how do you know which city to go to, which venue to choose, who your local promoter is, where to do your publicity, etc? I don't know, you don't know, I bet Steph doesn't know, I bet Shane does know. Don't you think that knowledge is relevant when running a company? They're also making money on their DVD releases since they own almost all US wrestling footage from the 70s on up. How many DVD releases of recent PPVs are big sellers? It's mostly stuff like the Ric Flair set and the ECW releases. Other than WrestleMania, not much of the current product really sells a lot of units. How do you know which stores to put your DVD's in? Which websites do you advertise them on? Which studio to print them? How to get the lowest cost possible to produce and the highest possible, saleable, price to sell them at? Why do I have the feeling that Shane would have a better idea in how to do this than Steph? Why do I have the feeling that things like these have absolutely nothing to do with the creative team, or ones ability to manage a creative team? Here, you don't have to answer any of this. I'll give you a gift. Just answer this one question: How does Stephs job make her more qualified to run the company than Shane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 You seem to think that marketing is more important than the actual wrestling product of a wrestling company. That seems like putting the cart before the horse. Any marketer worth his or her salt knows that polishing a turd is part of the job, but you can't seriously suggest that marketing is more vital to a wrestling company than wrestling. You see it in the music business all the time, you can promote anything for a short time and be successful, but if the product can't back it up you won't have long term success. And to answer your question: How does Stephs job make her more qualified to run the company than Shane? Because WWE is a wrestling company and it's her job that ultimately decides how well Shane can do his job. If she cranks out compelling TV and quality storylines, the tickets and DVDs will sell themselves. It's only when Steph fails at her job that Shane's got to work harder at his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Not to disrupt the dialogue, but while were on baby matters does anyone know if there is anything to the rumour about Angle boffing Dawn Marie on the road with his wife leaving and Dawn being released as a result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Not content to merely burn bridges with WWE, Test decides to pour gasoline all over any remnants of the bridge. What? That Steph is pregnant with HHH's kid maybe it'll be a bot and he'll come out with bad hair and spitting water and ask when he's getting the strap...lol...I really am happy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Where was this quote taken from? That is nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 His website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 http://www.andrewtestmartin.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bruiser Chong Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I forgot about the existence of Test until I read this. And I'm competely serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweetMama Scaat Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Its the damndest thing every time Test talks he either says something witty or fairly insightful. Whoda thunk it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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