Vince's Plan to Bury TNA

[Guest brian]

I was talking about how he specifically chose to use the American flag style mouthguard.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

I was talking about how he specifically chose to use the American flag style mouthguard.

I think that's just one of the generic designs available from most retailers (Unbreakable mouthpieces, Opro, Biteme, CustomGuards etc).

[Guest brian]

I jut really felt that the dramatic shift in character and the focus on submissions (they really worked hard to get the anklelock over, moreso than in the past) at that point made the mouthguard more than just a coincidence.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

I think the mouthguard in theory just works well with his gimmick and ring attire so it's a no-brainer for him to go with a flag design. Obviously the practical side of protecting his teeth from further problems is also a factor, however it is entirely possible Couture and Angle know each other from back in the day and/or Kurt noticed Randy wearing it on PPV and figured he'd get in on the act. or he went to one of thr above manufacturers and chose their stock design... we'll probably never know. I reckon it's probably a BiteMe mouthguard though. Most of the big US names from footballers players to UFC guys use them.

 

I think the anklelock as a submission that is built to in itself is a little off as I've injured people in training with them without holding them for 30 seconds however within the parameters of wrestling it's completely viable and believable. Which is the other confusing part of how they could get this to work: how do you try to re-educate the WWE audience so moves that weren't first time finishers before that they are finishing holds/techniques now they are being used by another group of wrestlers? On Velocity for example Jamie Knoble uses a float over kimura just like the finish of Karo Parisyan vs Dave Strasser, however Scotty 2 Hotty weathered the hold and finished the match whereas Strasser tapped to save his shoulder. Same move, different effect and result due to the different environments and people involved. Whereas at an MMA event people would think the end is near, the WWE audience clearly expected more to happen in the match before it ended. It's arguable the anklelock wouldn't be perceived as a legit submission had Ken Shamrock, a legit submission fighter, already appeared in the WWE to give it credibility in the eyes of the fans so again the question is what can actually be sold as real because it is real and what can be sold as real even though it's contrived and how is the audience going to be educated to respond appropriately?

 

So the question is, without basically totally destroying what kayfabe they have left, God knows that Hardy/Kane/Edge/Lita angle basically took a huge dump on what was left, I can't see how an angle like this could be executed without a great amount of effort and flawless execution, which I don't think at this point the E would be capable off.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

K-1 is primarily a vehicle for legitimate combat sports, freakshow fights aside, and I think they'd be better off trying to steal some of boxing's market. They've tried in the past by bringing in guys like Botha and could have really pushed themselves to the top had Tyson signed the paperwork to fight Bob Sapp. I can't see them gaining much from WWE aside from extra advertising and I don't think they'd want to compromise their credibility for the sake of a few more US buys.

Considering their audience in the US is so small, I think the benefits outweigh the costs when it comes to gaining exposure to a potential audience of 4 million+ people. K-1 compromising their credibility worries? Sapp/Kimo anyone?

 

If the UFC could get a big name professional wrestler in the octagon, I think they would be willing to cross-promote with the WWE. We're talking about potentially huge buyrates here. It's probably never going to happen, but Dana is a guy who brought Sean Gannon in, he brought Tito and BJ back, TUF is more pro wrestling than MMA at this point - I'm sure he'd go against his old statements about Pro Wrestling if the opportunity presented itself.

 

Brawl 4 All? Are you serious? Do I have to explain the difference between boxing and MMA to you? MMA style matches are very easy to transfer to professional wrestling, and I wouldn't expect anything beyond 5 minutes. The idea is to build up badass MMA guys, use them, then put over a professional wrestler who you expect to build around by having him win in equally dominating fashion.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

K-1 is primarily a vehicle for legitimate combat sports, freakshow fights aside, and I think they'd be better off trying to steal some of boxing's market. They've tried in the past by bringing in guys like Botha and could have really pushed themselves to the top had Tyson signed the paperwork to fight Bob Sapp. I can't see them gaining much from WWE aside from extra advertising and I don't think they'd want to compromise their credibility for the sake of a few more US buys.

Considering their audience in the US is so small, I think the benefits outweigh the costs when it comes to gaining exposure to a potential audience of 4 million+ people. K-1 compromising their credibility worries? Sapp/Kimo anyone?

 

If the UFC could get a big name professional wrestler in the octagon, I think they would be willing to cross-promote with the WWE. We're talking about potentially huge buyrates here. It's probably never going to happen, but Dana is a guy who brought Sean Gannon in, he brought Tito and BJ back, TUF is more pro wrestling than MMA at this point - I'm sure he'd go against his old statements about Pro Wrestling if the opportunity presented itself.

 

Brawl 4 All? Are you serious? Do I have to explain the difference between boxing and MMA to you? MMA style matches are very easy to transfer to professional wrestling, and I wouldn't expect anything beyond 5 minutes. The idea is to build up badass MMA guys, use them, then put over a professional wrestler who you expect to build around by having him win in equally dominating fashion.

Kimo and Sapp both have wins in MMA so they are legit fighters, even though they are arguably not very skilled ones.

 

Gannon was brought in because he got national press and international attention due to the Kimbo fight. Tito only came back because they offered to bump up his salary on the condition he also served as TUF coach. BJ has been brought in in the hope that Hughes either squashes him to erase all doubt as to who is the champ or so BJ can be used as the anti-Couture, a fighter willing to move up a weight for more of a challenge and championship opportunities. As for how old Dana's statements are, he made his intentions clear on during a radio interview a few months ago that he has no interest in dealing with the WWE because he feels they operate in two different areas with different goals.

 

Brawl 4 All was the WWE's attempt at cashing in on the UFC at the time however it ended with so many injuries to so many people and buried the one person they'd hoped would be pushed after the whole thing was over. I believe it had been planned as an annual event before the injury list convinced them otherwise, which is possibly why the McMahons apprehensive to take Kurt up on his idea.

 

As for explaining the difference between boxing and MMA, if you'd like I could get amateurs and pros in both fields to explain them to you instead. Incidentally, Brawl 4 All was neither, it was more like san da rules (strikes with takedowns) minus the kicks.

 

Also K-1 is THE promotion in Japan. I don't think the US market is much of a concern for them as they have dozens of top backers and sponsors for both them and their fighters. It'd be like American football trying get big over here in Britain, they know they don't have a huge amount of interest in our market so they don't try push it since they are financially secure due to their exisiting fanbase.

[Guest Famous Mortimer]

Is K-1 still the biggest thing in Japan though? I seem to recall reading Pride beating them in the NYE ratings. But anyway.

 

If they were going to do it with UFC, simple problem is all UFC's best fighters are below 205. Can you imagine any 260 lb. WWE monster being willing to put over Chuck Liddell?

 

The only problem UFC is going to encounter is, people are going to get sick and tired of seeing mostly uninteresting fighters sit around and make breakfast in TUF and they only run shows...how often? Six weeks? Two months? They're never going to be any sort of competition to WWE unless they have weekly TV, which, when you've got people beating other people up for real, might be a bit difficult.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

Is K-1 still the biggest thing in Japan though? I seem to recall reading Pride beating them in the NYE ratings. But anyway.

 

If they were going to do it with UFC, simple problem is all UFC's best fighters are below 205. Can you imagine any 260 lb. WWE monster being willing to put over Chuck Liddell?

 

The only problem UFC is going to encounter is, people are going to get sick and tired of seeing mostly uninteresting fighters sit around and make breakfast in TUF and they only run shows...how often? Six weeks? Two months? They're never going to be any sort of competition to WWE unless they have weekly TV, which, when you've got people beating other people up for real, might be a bit difficult.

UFC uses it's TV show as a means to create understanding of and interest in their product. They promote MMA shows primarily with TUF as the vehicle for fans to learn the techniques, training and faces involved in the sport while creating recognisable marketable fighters who they hope the audience will care for and support in the future. The highlight shows are there to showcase fighters and introduce the audience to them. The Fight Night shows are little freebies to give people a taste of actual UFC

 

UFC events are every 2 months, much like the old WWE PPV timetable some feel they should go back to. This is due to NSAC regulations so they don't run events with injured fighters and also due to the time needed to book the card, negotiate with the camps, allow the fighter training time, book the venue, line up possibly replacements if a fighter is injured in training... trying to do that on a weekly basis would be insane. Which is likely why they don't consider themselves competition for the WWE since they have no desire to ramp up their schedule to that level since it would probably lead to the NSAC shutting them down.

 

K-1 is still huge although I don't know how the K1 NYE did against the PRIDE NYE show, I'll probably bother one of our Japanese mods about it later.

[Guest savagerulz]

from the Observer via DVD message board:

 

Johnny Ace has been given word from Vince to sign anybody TNA is interested in, even if it is guys that were just  released. Some office workers have been told the idea is to sign them with lengthy no-compete clauses, then bury them so bad that by the time they go to TNA, they are damaged goods. Dave says management see this as a  pivotal year for TNA, and doesn't  want them to become legit competition.

 

 

 

well, I guess we know why they re-signed Haas.

We don't know if the report is true though of it it's just a fabrication or exaggeration, much like many or most other things that we read on sites. Heck, even the more credible sites and reporters have had their share of false reports in recent months. So lets see how Haas and other are used before we conclude that the report is a fact. That goes beyond just how Haas and whoever is immediately used, as impacts aren't always immediate.

[Guest Some Guy]

Haas had problems with one writer (Dave Lagana), but no one else apparently.

 

He and Eddy got into a shoving match after Haas and Shelton didn't let up on him during a match in which he hurt his elbow. But they made up and Eddy put both Haas and Shelton over pretty big in his book.

 

BTW, Eddy'd book is very good. On highlight is him saying that Kevin Nash is evil.