Fans Respecting wrestlers in the WWE

[Resident Evil]

So I was just watching some Dynamite Kid towards the end of his run in All Japan and thoughts of respect came through my mind. DK was still an awesome striker (in fact; he was heads and shoulders above any of the other 5 guys in the match) but it was obvious he was hurt and not the same wrestler he used to be. However, the fans love him and I mean loved him. The pop he got here in this particular match and the pops he was getting against the Malenkos were unreal. In fact, the pops were as good as they ever had been during his career. To me, it came across as one thing and one thing only -- That is of course respect.

 

This in turn brought me back to thinking about the fans respecting wrestlers in the WWE which is something I've been doing a little bit over the last while or so. The WWE is an interesting place as far as seeing how the crowds as a collective group react to certain things.

The quality of the WWE booking is varied usually pandering to the horrible side, the WWE seemingly has its own way of thinking and from the looks of it like to do things out of spite or whatever else; the fans are now more unpredictable than ever before and it has seemingly caught on (Thank you Canada) that it's okay to rebel against what the WWE is doing. All of this brings us to the fact that the crowd is doing whatever it wants.

So it makes it all the more impressive whenever a wrestler truly gets over with the fans especially considering that the WWE crowds are the largest in North America. There are a certain group of wrestlers that from what I've seen have gained the respect from the crowd and no matter what they do are going to have a sizeable portion of the crowd cheering for him.

Now this isn't necissarily (I don't know how to spell that word) a list of an internet smark but a list of who I believe the overall crowd truly respects. They are:

 

The Undertaker -- Definitely more respected among the fans than the smark community where he's generally underrated. It's just not the locker room boys. Myself, who has been a Taker fan and a Taker disser(mostly during biker Taker) at times now loves the Taker. I respect his longevity, his toughness, his ring presence and his wrestling skill. I can't see myself ever turning my back against him as a fan

 

Shawn Michaels -- Definitely more respected by the crowd than the smark community he has gotten to a point where he's always cheered by the audience. Yes, he's a face but like I was talking about before the crowd today is more rebellious but yet they don't boo Michaels

 

Eddie Guerrero -- Perhaps the king of respect in the WWE. He was just too good at what he did for the crowd to hate. Face/heel/tweener or whatever. Eddie exuded charisma and talent in the WWE and the fans new it.

 

Chris Benoit -- There was a point not too long ago where Benoit had his name chanted in every single match for quite a long streak. Along with Eddie he may be the king of respect in the WWE thanks to his legit super work ethic in the ring and his no nonsense charactor which has and always will be seen as cool.

 

Rey Mysterio Jr. -- I think the fans recognise his hard work and his ability to be in top notch matches all the times. Plus he has the size thing going for him as it's difficult not to respect such a small wrestler who uses so much fighting spirit to climb even the largest mountains

 

 

Yes, there are others as well. Some wrestlers like HHH I believe have partial respect. Matt Hardy has the respect thing going for him too. I think a lot of it comes down to being a wrestler that is charasmatic and talented enough to reach to the audience. The other big thing is longevity. The 5 wrestlers I mentioned earlier have all been around for awhile and during that entire time they have delivered for the most part for their audience. Throw in a touch of notsgolia which comes with the longevity and you got a bunch of wrestlers that the fans no matter what the WWE does will probably never turn against.

 

Just a few thoughts to pass time before LOST comes on. What do you guys think?

[Strummer]

If you look back, I would add Andre to the list. He was well respected by fans even after his heel turn. They were booing him but in a way it was out of respect and fear. Of course he lost the respect of smart fans during the 80s boom, but he generally was well thought of his entire career.

[Coffey]

Konnan talked about this in his shoot interview. All the "smart" fans seemingly act like they're above the business. They do nothing but bad mouth every wrestler that isn't a "smark darling." The business that they seemingly grew up on and loved, they constantly bash. I think that shows a lack of respect. Then, of course, you get into the whole "we're negative because we care" argument, which is a different topic altogether.

[Guest EastCoastJ]

Konnan talked about this in his shoot interview. All the "smart" fans seemingly act like they're above the business. They do nothing but bad mouth ever wrestler that isn't a "smark darling." The business that they seemingly grew up on and loved, they constantly bash. I think that shows a lack of respect. Then, of course, you get into the whole "we're negative because we care" argument, which is a different topic altogether.

I totally agree with Konnan. The fact that a self-obsessed band of idiots at a Ring of Honor show would claim to be the most respectful and knowledgable group of wrestling fans in the country in one breathe and then disrespectfully heckle one of the biggest legends in Mexican wrestling history (Konnan) tells you pretty much everything you need to know. It's a shame Konnan wasn't 5'6", 160lbs and a spotfest worker or Japanese. Maybe then he might have been more up to the "standard" of Ring of Honor fans and they wouldn't have had to teach him a lesson. Nevermind the fact that for the last decade Konnan can draw 12,000 fans at will in Mexico when he is promoted right, or the fact that he is one of the most knowledgeable people in the world when it comes to promoting and marketing wrestling. He's moves at the pace that his 42 years of life and 20 years in the business allow him too. If that's not a reason to boo him out of a building, I don't know what is.

[Guest Local Jobber R]

The Undertaker -- Definitely more respected among the fans than the smark community where he's generally underrated. It's just not the locker room boys. Myself, who has been a Taker fan and a Taker disser(mostly during biker Taker) at times now loves the Taker. I respect his longevity, his toughness, his ring presence and his wrestling skill. I can't see myself ever turning my back against him as a fan

I was a fan of the biker Taker myself since it made him into a real person. He was not a zombie from the clint eastwood western movies or evil cult leader, the Undertaker was the American Badass! The biker character was somewhat more believable and respectable since he was just a wrestler that was into motocycles and not something I would see in a Troma rental.

 

Shawn Michaels -- Definitely more respected by the crowd than the smark community he has gotten to a point where he's always cheered by the audience. Yes, he's a face but like I was talking about before the crowd today is more rebellious but yet they don't boo Michaels

Never really cared for the DX character myself but when HBK got in the ring you knew you were going to get your moneys worth. You knew that you were going to see something special.

 

Eddie Guerrero -- Perhaps the king of respect in the WWE. He was just too good at what he did for the crowd to hate. Face/heel/tweener or whatever. Eddie exuded charisma and talent in the WWE and the fans new it.

Never cared for the early Latino Heat character which looked like an over the top Cheech & Chong. When WWE finally let him be himself he was getting the biggest pops in the company when he started to use the tried and true CHEAT TO WIN character. His matches were so different then the norm in whatever fed he was working in that he stood out as the guy that could do everything. Eddie Guerrero was probably the greatest jr heavy to ever work in the USA.

 

Chris Benoit -- There was a point not too long ago where Benoit had his name chanted in every single match for quite a long streak. Along with Eddie he may be the king of respect in the WWE thanks to his legit super work ethic in the ring and his no nonsense charactor which has and always will be seen as cool.

I could watch Benoit vs Kurt Angle for 6 straight hours if given the chance. Just like Guerrero his jr heavy style was fun to watch since it would incorporate highspots, some matwork, and some sick suplexes. Beniot's matches had something for everybody, its hard to hate his matches. Hell he even made Mark F'N Henry look good.

 

Rey Mysterio Jr. -- I think the fans recognise his hard work and his ability to be in top notch matches all the times. Plus he has the size thing going for him as it's difficult not to respect such a small wrestler who uses so much fighting spirit to climb even the largest mountains

The respect for Rey Mysterio Jr. comes from being the one that took the mexican style of wrestling to the mainstream. For that alone he will forever be respect...now the current WWE angles kind of shits on that but the powers that be are just jealous of him. Now I don't know why Juventud Guerrera or Psicosis or even Konan don't get the same type of respect but I guess it has to do with them not getting a chance to shine outside of the "cruiserweight division".

 

If you look back, I would add Andre to the list.

Its hard not to respect Andre the Giant. To bad he was'nt healthy during the WWF 80's boom.

 

What all of these pro-wrestlers have in common is the fact that when it came to PPVs they knew these wrestlers were going to give their all. It didn't take much buildup for me to want to watch these wrestlers on PPV. You knew that Undertaker was going to give his opponet one hell of a brawl in the gimmick match be it in the cage or casket or buried alive match. You knew that HBK was going to take some death deflying bumps. You knew that Eddie Guerrero was going do his trademark highspots and might even take it to the outside for some brawling or bring the comedy. When it comes to a Benoit match you knew you were going to see the suplexes, the headbutt, the submission moves and if it was a special match maybe he would bust out some of his old moves from japan. Rey was the ultimate underdog, he was the wrestling equivalent to Rudy from Notre Dame...you just wanted to see him hit the hurricana to win the match. As for Andre the Giant well he was the GIANT damn it he could knockout his opponet with a simple slap or headbutt!

 

rant over

[The Thread Killer]

Konnan talked about this in his shoot interview. All the "smart" fans seemingly act like they're above the business. They do nothing but bad mouth ever wrestler that isn't a "smark darling." The business that they seemingly grew up on and loved, they constantly bash. I think that shows a lack of respect. Then, of course, you get into the whole "we're negative because we care" argument, which is a different topic altogether.

Yeah but here's the thing. He sucks. And YES, I own Bob Barnett's ENTIRE Classic 90's Lucha collection, so I saw him in his so-called prime. He sucked then too...except he was on steroids. If you pay to buy a ticket, you can boo the guy. I wouldn't deny him his constitutional right to suck, but the fact is that his act is stale, stupid, and annoying. In the name of all that is good and decent...the man wrestles with his pants hanging down around his knees and throws his freaking SHOE at people. What's to respect?

 

I don't think I'm above the business...but if I pay to see a show that you're on, then put some damn effort in, rather than walking like you have spinal injury, spouting the same old "Lemme speak on dis, where my dawgs at" crap, and then hurling your footwear. Or don't. If you want to suck, go ahead and suck...but don't cry when people boo you.

 

I respect the fact that Charles Ashenoff helped broker the deal that brought many legends of Lucha Libre to North America. I respect the fact that he was hugely over in Mexico, and made a ton of money. He drew some major houses there, no doubt. But that doesn't make him good. I've seen probably over 100 matches with Konnan in them, and I can't remember enjoying his work in any of them. Sorry.

 

Regarding the first post, the reason that DK got so much respect in AJPW before he retired is because Japanese fans have very good memories, unlike many North American fans. If you were once good, or if the fans know that you destroyed your body giving them you best, like Billington did...they will be loyal to you and never forget you. In North America, it's much more what have you done for me lately, and out of sight, out of mind.

[sek69]

Konnan probably wasn't the best person to make the point, but it was still a valid point that the "smartest" fan sometimes is the most disrespectful to the business.

 

I know, the old "you buy a ticket, you can boo who you want" argument. That's true, but I've always said just because you have the right to be an asshole, that doesn't mean no one else has the right to point it out. I hate when fans do chants like "You Fucked Up" as if the guy who just blew a spot and landed balls-first on the ropes needed reminded of that fact.

 

To me, one of the best moments in wrestling was when Hogan got the standing ovation on the RAW after WM 18. Yeah, you can be cynical and say he was milking it, but everyone in that arena was giving props to the man who they grew up watching. They weren't just cheering him for the night before, they were saying thanks for the last 20 years that made the business what it is now. I'm not even a Hogan fan, and I appricated that.

[Guest EastCoastJ]

There is a difference between booing a guy and flat out disrespecting him though. People booed Johnny Jeter in OVW because he was so good at getting his character over that people were trying to stab him in the parking lot. People booing Konnan in Ring of Honor is a bunch of obnoxious fans who think they are above the business hijacking a show to publicly tell a guy that he isn't worthy of their respect because he doesn't fit into their narrow viewpoint of what a good wrestler is. Konnan might suck in the ring even in his prime, but so did almost every one of the biggest draws in wrestling history pre 1995 and they are all certainly worthy of the respect of anyone who considers themselves to be an open minded wrestling fan. I don't see anything admirable or intelligent about a bunch of idiots trying to get themselves over at the expense of a guy who has positively impacted the wrestling business a million times more than they could ever dream of doing. Someone looks really bad in a situation like that, and it's not Konnan, it is Ring of Honor and their bratty fans.

 

I recognize that if you buy a ticket to a show you can say whatever you want, but just like ECW fans, I think that the type of fan who would try to assert their insider superiority over Konnan has absolutely no idea what a tool they come off as to anyone who follows the wrestling business respectfully and in terms of more than just star ratings.

[sek69]

The mid 90s provided a simple way to distinguish between the two types:

 

Fans chanting "ECW" at an actual ECW show: Fans who bought a ticket and are using the opportunity to show how hyped they are about seeing their favorite promotion.

 

Fans chanting "ECW" at a WWF show that happened to take place in Philly: Douchebags who are trying to get themselves over despite the fact they paid money to see the promotion they love to bash.

[Guest Famous Mortimer]

Konnan might suck in the ring even in his prime, but so did almost every one of the biggest draws in wrestling history pre 1995

Firstly, Konnan was nowhere near one of the biggest draws in history. Second, he sucks worse than lots of people who were the big draws. If I went to see an ROH show and Konnan was on it, I'd boo him. He's a crap worker, and to say people shouldn't boo him because of what he's done for the business is a little bit too far the other way from what you were arguing against. You can have too much respect for a carny sideshow fight, you know.

[kjh]

I don't think I'm above the business...but if I pay to see a show that you're on, then put some damn effort in, rather than walking like you have spinal injury

That may be because he's been putting off hip replacement surgery for ages.

[Guest EastCoastJ]

Konnan might suck in the ring even in his prime, but so did almost every one of the biggest draws in wrestling history pre 1995

Firstly, Konnan was nowhere near one of the biggest draws in history. Second, he sucks worse than lots of people who were the big draws. If I went to see an ROH show and Konnan was on it, I'd boo him. He's a crap worker, and to say people shouldn't boo him because of what he's done for the business is a little bit too far the other way from what you were arguing against. You can have too much respect for a carny sideshow fight, you know.

I didn't say Konnan was one of the biggest draws in wrestling history, I said that some of the biggest draws in wrestling history were absolutely abysmal workers (see: Hogan, The Sheik, Bruno, Bobo Brazil, Andre the Giant etc). Konnan is certainly no slouch either though. He and Vampiro were doing a few of the biggest houses in North America recently.

 

I guess we just have a difference of opinion.

[The Thread Killer]

Konnan probably wasn't the best person to make the point, but it was still a valid point that the "smartest" fan sometimes is the most disrespectful to the business.

 

I know, the old "you buy a ticket, you can boo who you want" argument. That's true, but I've always said just because you have the right to be an asshole, that doesn't mean no one else has the right to point it out. I hate when fans do chants like "You Fucked Up" as if the guy who just blew a spot and landed balls-first on the ropes needed reminded of that fact.

It all depends. I attended a lot of ECW shows, and I never ONCE chanted "You Fucked Up." I wasn't inclined to do it before, and after reading Foley's first book where he talks about how JT Smith practically killed himself trying to entertain the fans, knocked himself out, and then the fans chanted that at him...let's just say even if I HAD chanted that before, I wouldn't have done it again.

 

I respect the business. I LOVE the business. I respect a lot of guys in the business, but then again I loathe a lot of guys in the business too, especially when they do things that hurt the business. Sometimes I wonder...do fans like US here at NMB respect the business MORE than some people in the business, like Kevin Nash, or Bill Goldberg?

 

To me, one of the best moments in wrestling was when Hogan got the standing ovation on the RAW after WM 18. Yeah, you can be cynical and say he was milking it, but everyone in that arena was giving props to the man who they grew up watching. They weren't just cheering him for the night before, they were saying thanks for the last 20 years that made the business what it is now. I'm not even a Hogan fan, and I appricated that.

It's funny you mention that. I can't STAND Hogan. I hated him as a teenage fan during his prime in the 80's and I hated him from a smark's perspective during the 90's...however during his brief post WM18 run, I actually liked the Hogan character. I cheered for the Hogan character then. I would have been one of the ones cheering that night, swept up in the emotion. I think that was probably as close to honest as you'll ever see Hogan. And what did he do? Put over a ton of guys, like tapping to Angle. I actually respected Hogan during that period.

 

There is a difference between booing a guy and flat out disrespecting him though. People booed Johnny Jeter in OVW because he was so good at getting his character over that people were trying to stab him in the parking lot. People booing Konnan in Ring of Honor is a bunch of obnoxious fans who think they are above the business hijacking a show to publicly tell a guy that he isn't worthy of their respect because he doesn't fit into their narrow viewpoint of what a good wrestler is. Konnan might suck in the ring even in his prime, but so did almost every one of the biggest draws in wrestling history pre 1995 and they are all certainly worthy of the respect of anyone who considers themselves to be an open minded wrestling fan. I don't see anything admirable or intelligent about a bunch of idiots trying to get themselves over at the expense of a guy who has positively impacted the wrestling business a million times more than they could ever dream of doing. Someone looks really bad in a situation like that, and it's not Konnan, it is Ring of Honor and their bratty fans.

 

I recognize that if you buy a ticket to a show you can say whatever you want, but just like ECW fans, I think that the type of fan who would try to assert their insider superiority over Konnan has absolutely no idea what a tool they come off as to anyone who follows the wrestling business respectfully and in terms of more than just star ratings.

See, if I had been at that show I probably would have booed Konnan. Even though he was coming out in his pre "lemme speak on dis" persona, I find him annoying and I would have booed, because I don't enjoy seeing him wrestle. I don't see where just because somebody wrestled, and they were a draw they automatically deserve the fans respect. Respect is something you earn, it's not just handed to you on a silver platter.

 

That may be because he's been putting off hip replacement surgery for ages.

You cannot possibly be dense enough to think that I would boo a man for limping. You know what walk I was talking about, read the quote in context.

 

Have you ever SEEN the way he used to walk to the ring in WCW? What about now, when he walks to the ring in TNA? Wearing a bandana over his face, and waving his arms around like a wannabe gangsta rapper, with his pants hanging down around his kness?

 

Terry Funk can barely walk to the ring nowadays. I wouldn't boo him for that. I WOULD boo him if he was trying to act like some sort of reject from Grand Theft Auto, and tried to cover up his injuries by acting all cool.

 

I didn't say Konnan was one of the biggest draws in wrestling history, I said that some of the biggest draws in wrestling history were absolutely abysmal workers (see: Hogan, The Sheik, Bruno, Bobo Brazil, Andre the Giant etc). Konnan is certainly no slouch either though. He and Vampiro were doing a few of the biggest houses in North America recently.

 

I guess we just have a difference of opinion.

Nobody can argue Konnan has been a huge draw. As I said earlier, I wouldn't even argue that behind the scenes he has done a lot to advance Lucha in North America. However, when you strip all that away, and watch one of his matches, in my opinion he is not entertaining to watch. So I boo him. I don't think that makes me a bitter smark, or above the business.

 

Let's look at the other side.

 

I don't know about any of you, but I have spent thousands of dollars on pro wrestling. Literally thousands.

 

- I paid for EVERY wrestling WWF PPV from WM 12 all the way up to WM XIX. (When the Triple H/Booker T angle made me swear off WWE for good.)

 

- I bought EVERY ECW PPV, and tons of their other shows from (shudder) RF video. I used to happily drive from Toronto to Buffalo to see them live.

 

- I ordered every WCW PPV from Starrcade 93, until Halloween Havoc 1998 (when I finally gave up on them because I couldn't take it anymore.)

 

- I paid hundreds of dollars for Lucha from Bob Barnett.

 

- I paid hundreds of dollars for ROH. I have been buying TNA PPV's since almost day one.

 

- I don't even want to GUESS how much I have spent on Puro, but if I did know, and my wife found out, she'd probably kill me.

 

NONE of that is counting what I've spent on books, T-shirts, and tickets for live events, which we all know are not always cheap. I would probably have enough money for a down payment on a house if you added up all the money I have spent on wrestling in my life.

 

I am a paying customer. I would never throw an object at a wrestler, or spit at them, or even chant something at them which was disrespectful, personal, or racial in nature. To a degree, I respect anybody who has the guts to get in there and put their bodies on the line to entertain the fans.

 

I remember the argument that came out, when Kobashi came to ROH to fight Samoa Joe. Some fans started chanting "This is awesome" about three seconds into the match. Online I saw some fans complaining that ROH fans are too smarky, and that they think they're part of the show, and that they ruin the shows, and blah blah blah.

 

Guess what? If I had been there, you can bet your ASS I would have been chanting "this is awesome." For my money, Kenta Kobashi is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. He's past his prime now, and wrestles pretty much the same match every time he fights...but at his best HE might have been the best in the world. (Hell even now he's better than most of the WWE IMO.)

 

Here he was, in a small little hall in New York, fighting the man who might be one of the best NOW, in North America. The very idea of being able to witness that in person, in front of you, knowing that it was likely a once in a lifetime thing. Knowing that Kobashi had never toured the USA before? And he might not again? You're damn right I would have been chanting "this is awesome." I would have been in full on fanboy mode, and fuck anyone who thought I shouldn't be.

 

I am a pro wrestling fan. I'm a mark I guess.

 

"IT'S STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT!"

 

Well, maybe I'm not that bad.

 

However...

 

Too many wrestlers look at the fans like cash machines. There is a core audience for wrestling that will never go away no matter how bad the product gets, because they love wrestling that much. The fact that the WWE still has an audience right now proves that point. Far too many wrestlers think fans are stupid marks who will take whatever they give them, and like it.

 

I don't think that wrestling fans should be expected to just sit there and take whatever is thrown at them quietly, and be so happy for the privilege of seeing it, no matter how bad it is. There is nothing wrong with booing a bad match, and I don't care WHO is in it.

 

There IS something wrong for having no respect whatsoever for the business...and that goes for fans and wrestlers.

[Coffey]

Wow, good reply. I can't follow that up.