What do you want out of the wrestling folder?

[Loss]

We've had a mild slow down in traffic and I just wanted to get a feel for what it is you guys would like to see more of in the wrestling folder. By that, I mean, do you want to go back to doing the Thoughts On The Following Wrestlers posts every day? Do you want to talk about matches more? Do you prefer that we talk about current wrestling or past wrestling? Do you want more talk about Puroresu? About lucha? About the indies? Should we focus mostly on WWE?

 

Basically, any feedback/suggestions you have on making the wrestling folder a better place can be put in this thread. Have fun.

 

[Marty]

My opinion? No change.

 

I think things are fine the way they are as the material that's generally here is enough to keep me coming to this forum. The problem is a lack of interest at the moment, as my head is turned towards other things. Having a dull current product normally doesn't help, but that hasn't stopped me from posting lots in the past. There's always wrestling's history we can talk about, which we've been doing anyways.

 

Eventually, when I get motivated, I'll do another "Thoughts On The Following Matches" thread. Or someone else can feel free to do so. Wrestling just hasn't been an attention-grabbing priority at the moment, though.

[sek69]

I would assume discussion would mainly focus on WWE since its what most of us have the greatest access to. I'd like to talk more about TNA but its on at 4pm here and I don't get home from work till 5:30. Even the replays are off-schedule now since baseball season started.

 

I was kind of digging the Thoughts About These Wrestlers threads, but there's only so much you can do with them.

 

Perhaps I should start reviewing WWE DVDs for kicks. If people like Scooter can get a following I should be able to put some quality slop together.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

More threads with my name in the title.

 

You know I bring the gangbuster numbers.

[Marty]

Perhaps I should start reviewing WWE DVDs for kicks. If people like Scooter can get a following I should be able to put some quality slop together.

Me too. I own roughly 30 WWE DVDs. Might as well think about doing something useful with them.

[goodhelmet]

We've had a mild slow down in traffic and I just wanted to get a feel for what it is you guys would like to see more of in the wrestling folder.

It still has to be the busiest folder on the board.

 

do you want to go back to doing the Thoughts On The Following Wrestlers posts every day?

They were fun but there was rarely any real information shared that hasn't been said elsewhere. Occasionally, a nice little discussion would branch out but you had to wade through a bunch of nothing posts (Mine included) to get to some quality discussion.

 

Do you want to talk about matches more?

Of course, but as you have found out, there is no point in talking matches when it is a one person conversation.

 

Do you prefer that we talk about current wrestling or past wrestling?

Both!

 

Do you want more talk about Puroresu? About lucha? About the indies?

Yes, yes and yes... BUT... this is only worthwhile if other people are there to talk about the matches.

 

Should we focus mostly on WWE?

This is going to happen regardless.

 

Now, onto the question posed in the topic. If we don't have a large population of posters familiar with puro, we can always create posst that can educate people or help people track down matches. I tried this with the Kawada Recommendations and it died a quick death. Why should I invest that time if noone appreciates it?Personally, I am willing to post Observer news as time permits when I start recieving it. I ordered last Tuesday (or Monday?) and haven't recieved my first issue. But as HTQ pointed out, why take the time to type all of that if no one appreciates it or responds to it? That is why he stopped typing them up at TSM.

 

I think we also have to get away from generalizations.. and get to specifics. I fall in this trap, Loss falls into this trap, we all fall into it. We have an opinion on a topic and we start dropping cliches and generalizations while lacking specifics to really drive in our point. Not always, but I think as posters, we should really be aware of this. This is one of the reasons why I haven't contributed to your Hidden Gems thread, Loss. It would require me to watch the matches and try and make a worthwhile contribution so I don't become what I despise.

 

Another thing I would liek to see from different posters is more discussion in the What Are You Watching thread and longer pieces. testing is over for me and I am coasting the rest of the way. Ishould be much more active in this folder the next month.

 

 

Perhaps I should start reviewing WWE DVDs for kicks. If people like Scooter can get a following I should be able to put some quality slop together.

Me too. I own roughly 30 WWE DVDs. Might as well think about doing something useful with them.

What ever you guys do, don't just give some PBP and slap a star rating to it. That is the laziest and worst kind of writing you can do when it comes to generating meaningful discussion.

[Marty]

Me too. I own roughly 30 WWE DVDs. Might as well think about doing something useful with them.

What ever you guys do, don't just give some PBP and slap a star rating to it. That is the laziest and worst kind of writing you can do when it comes to generating meaningful discussion.

I don't intend to do play-by-play. I think it's boring, let alone its lack of ability to generate discussion. The big issue for me is getting a notepad handy, not to jot the moves of the match down, but to cover things that are happening and why they are happening. I have a bad memory otherwise.

[goodhelmet]

That's the idea!!!!

[Coffey]

I'm not a big fan of the "list" threads, especially when it pertains to years. I can't remember '97 from '98 or '99. Just like I can't remember '90 from '91 & '92. Especially now that there's Raw and Smackdown every week and about fifty PPV's a year. I can't even remember the names of all the PPVs anymore.

 

I like threads that spawn differing opinions and discussion. When it's just come in, name a match and dip that discussion doesn't really happen unless someone forces it. It's like all the discussion seems forced. Like someone has to take the "devil's advocate" role to even get the ball rolling. We usually just converse about something that we all share a similar opinion on. It doesn't bring a lot of discussion, just a lot of agreeing.

 

I liked when we were doing the talk about certain wrestlers. I didn't like that we had, like, five at a time. I like to learn shit about dudes whenever possible. If we, for example, could combine what we've been doing into like one big daily thread I think it'd bring more discussion and we might even learn some shit. Like, have a thread about a certain wrestler. We can list what we like and dislike about them. Talk about the matches that they've had that we think are the best and possibly list the matches of theirs that we've seen which are the shits. Actually, a wrestler a day is probably too much. That forces the discussion to come to a halt at the end of the day. Maybe we could even list matches by certain people that we've seen that are obscure so others can seek them out? Something like that. Like their early days and whatnot.

 

Also, I think we should focus LESS on Puro because of the people that we have here. I mean, I know that personally my experience to Japanese wrestling is very low...and I've actually went out of my way to read about it and buy tapes and shit. So, I'd like to think that my knowledge is above average.

 

I'm a bigger fan of us talking about our opinions instead of commenting on what people at the Wrestling Observer typed out and what not. I mean, I like to hear about the little nuggets too. I'm glad I know about the Lita/Edge/Hardy shit and all that. I don't think that Meltzer's opinion is anymore valid that that of Loss or Goodhelmet or Sek though. We can have the informative news threads, like releases and whatnot, but I don't like it when it all becomes speculation and shit.

 

We never talk about the indies either. We don't talk about Ring of Honor, TNA or OVW...ever really. Are there people that we should be on the look-out for that haven't had MotYC's in RoH?

 

I don't mind reading tape reviews and shit but I think that's more main page shit. All you can talk about in the forums as it pertains to that is stuff like "good article" or "i agree." "Hey guys, I posted my new article on-line today!" "Great read man."

 

You know, "natey2k4" or whatever the fuck his name is at TSM has a good idea. He just starts threads that ask a question and discussion takes off from there. Shit like should WWE have video packages for all PPV matches? Stuff like that will get differing opinions. I think he's a shitty poster but he has the right idea. If the original post were to be more descriptive and whatnot, like we're capable of here, we'd probably stumble onto some good threads.

[Guest Some Guy]

I like the "thoughts on the following wrestlers" thread. If it was limited to one well known guy (like the first one on Sting) or 5 lesser known (rather than 10) I think we could get some mileage out of them.

This is an awesome suggestion and one I'm going to implement.

 

Especially if someone were to say that they loved such and such match and then came back and backed it up with a break down of the match similar to GH's ones on Eddy/JBL 1 & 2.  Those were the best match reviews I've ever read.  They actually told you why the match was good, rather than simply PBP and snowflakes with no reason, like SK and others.

Agreed. GH's writeups of those matches were terrific.

 

Maybe do a "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" type thread where people would break down matches, rather than lumping it all into a "What are you Watching?" thread.  I do like that thread, if for no other reason than you get an idea of what footage people have.

That's not entirely the way I like to write about matches, but admittedly, it does have its good points. Sometimes, wrestling can be so complicated that doing one particular move or finish has explainable advantages and explainable disadvantages, so it's not really "good" or "bad", because that's too general. I guess it's all in how it's explained.

 

I would reallly like if a couple of people would take the time to do a "Best of (Wrestler X)" type thread where they would breakdown a series of matches of a given wrestler, like the Dustin thread at the DVD board.

That would be awesome.

 

As far as Puro and Lucha, I don't watch it so I can't very well comment on it.  As soon as I get through the hours of RoH stuff that GH sent me I will be able to comment more on at least certain ROH workers.

Likewise.

 

TNA's timeslot sucks and so does the product for the most part, so other than a few drive by posts at TSM I really don't have too much to say about it.  I've seen enough to know what the main problems in the company are and what its strenghs are but I don't watch the show enough to get into specifics.

I'm in the same boat.

[goodhelmet]

I like the "thoughts on the following wrestlers" thread. If it was limited to one well known guy (like the first one on Sting) or 5 lesser known (rather than 10) I think we could get some mileage out of them.

See, Loss used to start these at SNKT with the Wrestler of the Day threads. Unfortunately, it would be a brief bio with little or no relevant discussion afterwards. Occasionally, there would be some good debate but there were also alot of "Haven't seen much so I can't comment" type replies. In that instance, the people who posted that could have generated discussion by asking for match recommendations or what made that wrestler appealing in the ring but it harldy ever happened.

 

Especially if someone were to say that they loved such and such match and then came back and backed it up with a break down of the match similar to GH's ones on Eddy/JBL 1 & 2. Those were the best match reviews I've ever read. They actually told you why the match was good, rather than simply PBP and snowflakes with no reason, like SK and others.

Man, you really need to get out more but I do appreciate the compliment. It makes me feel like my posts don't always go unnoticed.

 

I would reallly like if a couple of people would take the time to do a "Best of (Wrestler X)" type thread where they would breakdown a series of matches of a given wrestler, like the Dustin thread at the DVD board.

I agree. I'll look through my stuff and see if I have enough from any one wrestler to start working on it.

 

As far as Puro and Lucha, I don't watch it so I can't very well comment on it.

Have you ever seen it? If not, you really need to and I ca help you out with that. Are you not interested because of previous stuff you had seen?

[Loss]

Now is as good a time to ask as any.

 

To get an idea of what you guys have seen so I'll kinda know where to drive the discussion, what year did you start watching? What promotions did you follow? Have you seen any puro? If so, what? If everyone could kinda give a general idea of what they've seen and what their favorite and least favorite stuff has been, that would be great.

 

This topic has given me many good ideas, actually. Thanks to everyone that has provided any type of feedback.

[Guest Some Guy]

I like the "thoughts on the following wrestlers" thread. If it was limited to one well known guy (like the first one on Sting) or 5 lesser known (rather than 10) I think we could get some mileage out of them.

See, Loss used to start these at SNKT with the Wrestler of the Day threads. Unfortunately, it would be a brief bio with little or no relevant discussion afterwards. Occasionally, there would be some good debate but there were also alot of "Haven't seen much so I can't comment" type replies. In that instance, the people who posted that could have generated discussion by asking for match recommendations or what made that wrestler appealing in the ring but it harldy ever happened.

 

What I think needs to be done to generate discussion is ofr a fight to be picked with someone who posts something without explanation. If said I really loved Viscera/Mark Henry from some PPV in 99 or 2000 and didn't give any reason and no one called me on it then no discussion would happen. If you called me on it and I came back with some rationale then a discussion could get going. BTW, I hated that match.

 

Especially if someone were to say that they loved such and such match and then came back and backed it up with a break down of the match similar to GH's ones on Eddy/JBL 1 & 2. Those were the best match reviews I've ever read. They actually told you why the match was good, rather than simply PBP and snowflakes with no reason, like SK and others.

Man, you really need to get out more but I do appreciate the compliment. It makes me feel like my posts don't always go unnoticed.

Point me in the direction of a reviewer who takes the time to back up his opinion with something more than PBP and stars. As I've told you before, I never would have bothered to watch either match had you not given me a reason to. If you just said, "I really liked the match because Eddy bladed ::ECW ECW ECW::" I would have missed out on a very good match.

 

I would reallly like if a couple of people would take the time to do a "Best of (Wrestler X)" type thread where they would breakdown a series of matches of a given wrestler, like the Dustin thread at the DVD board.

I agree. I'll look through my stuff and see if I have enough from any one wrestler to start working on it.

It wouldn't even have to be 50 of whatever guys matches, like 5 or 10 would get the job done. I'd prefer they be guys who's matches haven't been seen by everyone. So Benoit, Eddy, etc.. would be sort of a watse of time. Guys like JBL, Dustin, etc.. who most people overlook because of who they are or who their dad is are of more interest to me that and Puro guys.

 

As far as Puro and Lucha, I don't watch it so I can't very well comment on it.

Have you ever seen it? If not, you really need to and I ca help you out with that. Are you not interested because of previous stuff you had seen?

I'm just not a big fan of Lucha, but I do like Puro. I;m very interested in seeing Misawa and others who people are always pimping. If you have some of that stuff throw it on the next shipment.

[Loss]

I'm going to address some of these things specifically tomorrow, but I just wanted to say that if any of you know of any good posters that you think would fit in here, especially in this folder, PLEASE invite them along. That means, Dazed, if there's anyone at Something Awful who you think would fit in, link 'em and pimp the site. We obviously don't want it to be TSM-lite here, but if there are good wrestling posters that aren't here that you think would fit in here, invite them. We have a great group of posters, but I think we need a few more voices in the crowd.

 

PS -- Anyone with extensive knowledge of something obscure (territories, MMA, lucha, indies, etc) would be a huge coup.

[sek69]

Now is as good a time to ask as any.

 

To get an idea of what you guys have seen so I'll kinda know where to drive the discussion, what year did you start watching? What promotions did you follow? Have you seen any puro? If so, what? If everyone could kinda give a general idea of what they've seen and what their favorite and least favorite stuff has been, that would be great.

 

This topic has given me many good ideas, actually. Thanks to everyone that has provided any type of feedback.

I started watching when I was about 5, so that would have been around 1983-ish. My grandfather was a wrestling fan, we used to watch Saturday Night on TBS. He spent winters in Florida and he used to go the shows down there, as he was a fan of Dusty Rhodes.

 

I started watching the WWF between WM 2 and 3. I actually remember watching the match where Hogan got squashed by Bundy that left him having to have taped ribs at WM 2, but I really started watching the WWF full time during the build to WM 3. I remember seeing Andre walk out during Piper's Pit and just thinking "whoa, that dude's not human".

 

A lot of the wrestling I watched in the early days was thanks to ESPN, they aired AWA and World Class TV shows. I remember watching the Rockers vs Rose/Somers bloodbath when it happened, thinking it was the best thing I've ever seen. I also remember my grandfather and my dad both on the edge of their seats watching the Hennig/Bockwinkel one hour draw on New Year's Eve.

 

I've watched some puro, probably more than the average wrestling fan but not nearly as much as the hardcore puro guys. I've seen all the must-see classic matches and I'm familiar with the top names, but not so much on the up and coming guys.

[Guest Bruiser Chong]

But as HTQ pointed out, why take the time to type all of that if no one appreciates it or responds to it?

I don't think it was lack of appreciation. I loved checking out the old Observers HTQ posted at TSM. I rarely posted anything because I thought it'd be pointless to join in if I had nothing to say. That doesn't mean I didn't get anything out of it, though. They can create some discussion, but stuff like that for me is just more fun to go through, maybe learn some new things and that's that. A post saying "thanks" would probably be in order, but once again, I didn't want to post when I felt I couldn't add anything of worth to the thread. I'd love to see more old WON posted here. Can't say I'll be a regular contributor to the threads, but I will certainly be a faithful reader. Just my two cents.

 

To get an idea of what you guys have seen so I'll kinda know where to drive the discussion, what year did you start watching?

 

1991.

 

What promotions did you follow?

 

WWF.

 

Have you seen any puro?

Not really. Truth be told, I'm not dying for that to change, either. I try not to let the opinons of others ruin what I like, but the aura puro elitists carry is a complete turn-off. I feel that if I ever got into any of it, posting or discussing it would be near impossible because the purists tend to tear people not as well-informed about it to shreads.

[Loss]

BTW, sek, I'm assuming you invited artDDP. You rock for doing so! Glad to have you here, art!

[sek69]

Indirectly, yeah I did. He was interested in the Kevin Nash Torch interview so I pointed him to the thread about it here.

[goodhelmet]

what year did you start watching?

Before most of the people here were born... around 1980 or so.

 

what promotions did you follow?

As a kid? World Class, Georgia, WWF, NWA tv, AWA, UWF, GLOW... anything wrestling related. Now... anything wrestling related.

 

Have you seen any puro? If so, what?

Don't make me break out my tape and DVD collection.

 

I'm just not a big fan of Lucha, but I do like Puro. I;m very interested in seeing Misawa and others who people are always pimping. If you have some of that stuff throw it on the next shipment.

Ask and you shall receive

 

What I think needs to be done to generate discussion is ofr a fight to be picked with someone who posts something without explanation. If said I really loved Viscera/Mark Henry from some PPV in 99 or 2000 and didn't give any reason and no one called me on it then no discussion would happen. If you called me on it and I came back with some rationale then a discussion could get going. BTW, I hated that match.

Why did you hate that match? you can't leave that unanswered!!!!

 

I agree with you 100%. I haven't seen Brock-Taker in awhile and you took me to task when I was going off memory, not real analysis. Things like that need to be done.

 

I don't think it was lack of appreciation. I loved checking out the old Observers HTQ posted at TSM. I rarely posted anything because I thought it'd be pointless to join in if I had nothing to say. That doesn't mean I didn't get anything out of it, though. They can create some discussion, but stuff like that for me is just more fun to go through, maybe learn some new things and that's that. A post saying "thanks" would probably be in order, but once again, I didn't want to post when I felt I couldn't add anything of worth to the thread. I'd love to see more old WON posted here. Can't say I'll be a regular contributor to the threads, but I will certainly be a faithful reader. Just my two cents.

Sometimes, a simple PM message would do. I never read HTQ's posts at TSM so I can't comment on that but if I continue to post Observer news and notes and get neither response or discussion generated, I would cease to type them.

 

Not really. Truth be told, I'm not dying for that to change, either. I try not to let the opinons of others ruin what I like, but the aura puro elitists carry is a complete turn-off. I feel that if I ever got into any of it, posting or discussing it would be near impossible because the purists tend to tear people not as well-informed about it to shreads.

I hate, hate, hate that term... puro elitist. People who support a product faithfully will always be labelled. ROHbots, WWE Sheep, ECW mutants, Puro elitists, White Trash (WCW). If other people's love for a product is what is keeping you from exposing yourself to Japanese wrestling then you are only doing a disservice to yourself. There are hundreds of matches that are so great that you can't help but be more critical of match you once considered a ***** match. I loved Bret-Owen from WMX. Now, it probably isn't even in my top 100 favorite matches. It's called growth. At one time, my limited viewing made me appreciate the American stuff more, but I was also ignorant of the great stuff that was out there. there are always people who will look to tear you apart for being less informed. Then there are posters such as myself and loss who (at least I think we do) go out of our way to open people up to matches and styles. So, since my favorite matches tend to be Japanese matches, does that make me a puro elitist? How many times have I heard someone rip on Japanese wrestling as a whole simply because they didn't want to accept the fact that there are better performers, matches and eras than their own personal favorites. The gist is that it runs both ways. For every good Japanese match, I could show you a bad Japanese match if not 2 or 3. Smae thing applies to American wrestling. The key is to expose yourslef o it and get the most you can with what is available.

[Guest Dazed]

1) do you want to go back to doing the Thoughts On The Following Wrestlers posts every day?

 

Yes, but I think there was too much. If there were say two wrestlers at a time, and the thread was done twice a week, it gives far more scope for discussion. With the current rate of 6 or 7 a day, you're discussing nearly 50 people a week. There's no way for decent discussion to break out there.

 

Do you want to talk about matches more?

 

Yes, but there's an inherent problem here... most matches worth discussing fall into either the "Shawn / Taker HIAC" category, where it's been discussed to death, or it's pretty obscure and so most people haven't see it. If we could operate some sort of way of getting tapes to each other or something, there's a lot more scope for discussion. Sadly, the only regular access we all have to the same material is WWE, and there's typically very little worth discusing.

 

Do you prefer that we talk about current wrestling or past wrestling?

 

Both! A discussion of the evolution of wrestling would be fantastic.

 

Do you want more talk about Puroresu? About lucha? About the indies? Should we focus mostly on WWE?

 

All of them! However, the point I made above about match availability stands.

[Loss]

Goodhelmet nailed it. Bruiser, if you ever change your mind, ask Will, or me, or someone around here, and we'll show you the way without jumping down your throat. I can understand being turned off by that type of fan, but I just don't want it to be the reason you're hesitant to watch anything from Japan.

[Loss]

My opinion? No change.

 

I think things are fine the way they are as the material that's generally here is enough to keep me coming to this forum. The problem is a lack of interest at the moment, as my head is turned towards other things. Having a dull current product normally doesn't help, but that hasn't stopped me from posting lots in the past. There's always wrestling's history we can talk about, which we've been doing anyways.

Ooh, I'm going to do a Montreal thread.

 

Relax, I'm kidding.

 

 

Eventually, when I get motivated, I'll do another "Thoughts On The Following Matches" thread. Or someone else can feel free to do so. Wrestling just hasn't been an attention-grabbing priority at the moment, though.

I think I'm going to combine a point you made with a point Coffey made. Instead of doing a *daily* TOTFW, I'll probably post a *weekly* one. Anytime you want to post a match one, feel free as well. We can find other stuff to talk about in the interim, and that way, we don't cycle through the discussion material so quickly.

[Loss]

I would assume discussion would mainly focus on WWE since its what most of us have the greatest access to.  I'd like to talk more about TNA but its on at 4pm here and I don't get home from work till 5:30. Even the replays are off-schedule now since baseball season started.

I have yet to be able to catch an episode of Impact myself. It's over by the time I get home from work on Friday afternoons, so I don't have a way to watch it. What a lousy time slot!

 

I know Coffey is a TNA follower, and I'm sure others are out there as well, so we just need to work on attracting those people to the board.

 

I hate to keep going back to *that* board, but is there anyone in the TNA folder at TSM that's particularly great that doesn't post here?

[Loss]

Perhaps I should start reviewing WWE DVDs for kicks. If people like Scooter can get a following I should be able to put some quality slop together.

I'd be interested in hearing it. One of my favorite things about you, even though we often disagree on wrestling, is that you're not afraid to challenge conventional wisdom when you think it's wrong. That would translate well to PPV discussion.

 

[Loss]

More threads with my name in the title.

 

You know I bring the gangbuster numbers.

That you do.

 

If we want wrestling history, HTQ is the man. If he doesn't know, he likely has the Observer with all the info on the subject. He also has a great understanding of what works and what doesn't in wrestling, which makes for good discussion.