Antonio Inoki vs Shinya Hashimoto

[fxnj]

Ace of 80's NJPW vs the 90s. Who you got?

[EnviousStupid]

Inoki is probably better at working more styles and has the better match catalogue, but Hash was never frustrating like I've found Inoki to be across the 80s. Outside of how other wrestlers were shafted by him, Inoki just is not as consistent as his contemporaries, and has a tendency of forcing matches to work in his favor, even at the detriment of everyone around him. Off the top of my head I can think of matches with Choshu, Saito, tags with Fujinami where he does this, and the best explanation I can give for him doing it is sheer vanity. Whereas with Hash, if he's working with guys who are limited or inexperienced but have some kind of martial arts background, he's making them look great and accentuating their strengths. He was arguably the highlight of both NJPW's interpromotional feuds with WAR and UWF-i. His rivalry with Ogawa in his final years with New Japan is an all-timer. I'm inclined to say that in-ring, he was doing Inokiism better than the originator.

[fxnj]

Hash is probably the most frustrating worker I've seen, though I mainly say that because I tend to have sky high expectations for him between the hype surrounding him and the fact that I started out with what seems to be his best stuff (vs. Zangiev 1989, Choshu G1 96, Ogawa 1999-2000 series, Kawada 2004). I have immense respect for his performances in those matches, with the Kawada one being one of the best performances I've ever seen from anyone. I just wish he hit that level more often. The biggest thing seems to be a similar issue with what people see in Brody where you want him to just be a badass brawler who stiffs people and does epic staredowns, but instead you often get him spending huge chunks of the match doing a bunch of matwork that he sucks at. I have no idea how anyone can watch Hash/Hase G1 93 back-to-back with pretty much any one of Inoki's big matches vs. Andre/Fujinami/Choshu/Saito and think Hash's matwork looks good. He wasn't exactly some beacon of consistency in smaller tags/6-mans either. There's probably some gems if you know where to look, but I recently watched several 1994 tags and a 6-man opposite Fujiwara, and all of them had Fujiwara working circles around him. None of them were nearly as good as Inoki/Hase vs. Fujiwara/Ishikawa also from 1994 either.

Inoki seems a very misunderstood worker. I've seen it implied that Hash was a guy who was every bit as good as the best AJPW guys but rubes just didn't get his work because not enough head drops or flippies. That description seems far more apt for Inoki. Often when I read others talk about Inoki I'm wondering if I even watched the same match others are talking about. I've been looking for these mythical Inoki matches brought down by his ego since the DVDVR 80's set and I've yet to find them. The story of the Saito matches, for example, is pretty much the opposite of that with Inoki allowing Saito to out-wrestle him for large portions of their matches before something happens at the end that stops Saito from putting him away. It seems that what others take as ego-tripping I see as him knowing how to play the ace role better than anyone else and using that ability to create unforgettable moments. For a guy with a rep for refusing to give anything, he also has amazing understanding of when and how much to sell for an opponent to get the crowd involved. Like, just watch the 4/85 Brody match and see Inoki put on a masterclass in crowd control. I really can't imagine Hash getting a match nearly that good out of Brody. Basically, I see Inoki as a much more well-rounded worker who also does Hash's calling card of simply worked cinematic spectacles better than Hash himself. 

[ohtani's jacket]

When I watch Inoki, I’m looking for mat heavy bouts that contain a lot of striking and quasi-shoot style work. I can’t stand Inoki matches against foreign guys unless they’re early in his JWA days or against a guy like Backlund. There are a lot of Inoki vs. foreign guy matches out there, and those are matches that people gravitate towards because they’re names they know. Those matches tend to inform most of the opinion surrounding Inoki. A lot of Inoki vs. native matches seem innately boring to the average fan despite their merits. Throw in the crazy stories people hear, and the prevailing image of him being the Hulk Hogan of Japan and holding other wrestlers down, and you have the basis for the lack of enthusiasm surrounding Inoki as a worker. I don’t think he was some super genius as a worker, but I like the aura surrounding younger Inoki as an athlete and a  fighter, and there are select matches I like. He was pretty good in the early years of NJPW in terms of brawling with foreigners as it was an extension of the stuff he’d done in JWA, but after the proto-MMA stuff takes off, it’s hard to watch him fighting run of the mill foreign guys. 

Hashimoto is similar in the sense that I’m  looking for something specific from him and it’s actually quite minimalist. I’d rather watch Hashimoto have a low key struggle with a Fujiwara or Regal than a Tokyo Dome main event. I don’t mind his mat work, largely because it’s Hashimoto doing it so I can get behind it. I don’t think a dude his size is going to be a naturally gifted athlete, but he can still be effective. I don’t like post-98 Hashimoto much outside of the odd performance here and there. I think the Ogawa feud killed his career and he was never the same afterward. 

it’s a tough choice, but if you were to tell me there was a great undiscovered Inoki and Hashimoto match out there, and I could only choose one of them, I’d have to go with Inoki at this stage. 

[Phil Schneider]

As someone who put the DVDVR New Japan set together, there was plenty of Inoki stinkers, we just didn't put them on the set. If he was working someone below him in the hierarchy, he would take a bunch of their stuff, shrug it off, hit an enzigiri and pin them. Big match Inoki rules, but I have to go Hash here, I have his bandana hanging in my closet, I just can't be impartial 

[Mr JMML]

I just enjoy Shinya Hashimoto way more than I enjoy Inoki's work.

[Tetsujin]

I think it's closer than people here make it sounds. Both are really good at their prefered style, but can be inconsistent out of their confort zone. Their input is often quite great, with both having strong, accurate offence and detailed selling, and both have enough charisma to carry lesser matches and/or opponents. I also believe both reached their max level considerably less often than other top tier contenders, though,but obviously when they did it was as good as any pro wrestling ever.

Idk man, it's hard. I think Hash was better a bit more, and his rewatch value is higher than Inoki's, if only for his matches being shorter. Also, Hash is one of the only guys with a 5* match in my book (G1 96 with Choshu) and Inoki is not (although I have the 75 Robinson match at 4'75*).

[Microstatistics]

If this poll had been done a couple of years ago, I would have gone with Hashimoto without a second thought. I still picked him but it is fairly close. Similar aura and big-match output. Inoki had greater longevity and variety but Hashimoto has him beat with it comes to consistency and reliability.