Why did the lighter weights die off in America?

[David Mantell]

Bounced from the French Catch thread:

Quote

What I wonder is what went wrong with lighter weight wrestling in America?  There was George Bothner in the early years of the C20th, he later referreed Caddock- Stecher and ran legendary shooter gym Bothner's Gym in New York.  After that you get the odd name like Ad Santel or Benny Sherman but by the start of the 30s there was virtually nothing left below Light Heavyweight and that title was also exiled to Mexico in the late 30s.

Why did the three lighter weight titles get bounced off to Mexico in the late 1930s with the NWA World Light Heavyweight Championship following in the late 1950s?

Why was America unable to come up with its own versions of George Kidd. Rene Ben Chemoul, "Le Petit Prince" Daniel Dubail, Johnny Saint etc etc.  Was George Bothner a household name and pals with Babe Ruth like Strangle Lewis was?

Why did Europe, Mexico and Japan managed to make stars in the lighter weights but not America?

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't know the exact reasons, but there was clearly an emphasis on size in America and a larger focus on heavyweight titles. Where that emphasis originated from, I don't know. Lightweight wrestling wasn't the only form of wrestling that fell by the wayside. Women's wrestling and minis wrestling was also marginalized after being fixtures of the Golden Age of professional wrestling. I don't think lightweights ever completely disappeared from the sport, but certainly by the time the 80s rolled around there was a lot of pressure on lighter weight wrestlers to bulk up. I don't think that pressure ever completely disappeared. If you look at the Mysterio that broke through in the WWE, he is far more jacked than he was in ECW or WCW. Japanese and Mexican wrestlers are generally of smaller stature than their American counterparts, so that likely played a role in the development of their wrestlers. However, in both countries, the lightweight wrestlers tried to climb the weight divisions. Fujinami, for example, was one of wrestling's great lightweights, but harbored a desire to wrestle in the heavyweight class. In the US, where weight classes mattered less, small wrestlers also aimed for the world title. 

I suppose the true answer is that until Mysterio arrived on the scene, there wasn't a Petit Prince level talent working in the States. Some very good workers, but no-one spectacular. 

[Timbo Slice]

Danny Hodge was a star, especially in the Oklahoma territories, after finishing his amateur career and was highly regarded even though junior heavies weren’t highly featured in the 60s and 70s. He’s probably the best analogue for the majority of the French footage we have, but he was an outlier for the time. 

[strobogo]

Post WW1/2 nutrition might actually be a legitimate factor in this

[Timbo Slice]

And Hodge crushing too many apples with his double-tendoned hands only made fewer pieces of fruit for folks. 

[El-P]

My answer : 'murica, fuck yeah !

Ya know, "bigger is better" mentality and such things.

(the posterboy of it being, well, that Hogan guy in the 80's)

[PeteF3]

3 hours ago, El-P said:

My answer : 'murica, fuck yeah !

Ya know, "bigger is better" mentality and such things.

(the posterboy of it being, well, that Hogan guy in the 80's)

I mean...yeah, fair, but it's not like the lighter weights completely died off in boxing. Even if the heavyweights were the main attractions, Sugar Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, Sugar Ray Leonard, Hitman Hearns, up through Floyd Mayweather were all big stars. Same with UFC. 

[El-P]

1 hour ago, PeteF3 said:

I mean...yeah, fair, but it's not like the lighter weights completely died off in boxing. 

Of course. My answer was obviously half-way in jest.

[David Mantell]

14 hours ago, Timbo Slice said:

Danny Hodge was a star, especially in the Oklahoma territories, after finishing his amateur career and was highly regarded even though junior heavies weren’t highly featured in the 60s and 70s. He’s probably the best analogue for the majority of the French footage we have, but he was an outlier for the time. 

IiRC he was a junior heavyweight. The kids today use "Cruiserweight" and "Junior" to mean anyone not elephantine but back in the day it was used to mean the equivalent of Mid Heavyweight in the UK. Some wrestlers were champions even at Light Heavyweight (#3 division) as a preparation for an eventual heavyweight push - case in point Verne Gagne.

This also happened in Britain - most extreme case in point Dynamite Kid going from beating Jim Breaks in 1977 for the same British Lightweight Championship that Nino Bryant holds today to being a roided-up WWF World Tag Team Champion just 9 years later. Slightly less extreme example Danny Collins' progression from white meat blue-eye British Welterweight Champion Danny Boy Collins in 1984 to heel British Light Heavyweight Champion Dirty Dan Collins by 1997 - had accumulated injuries not taken their toll and led to a slowdown (and five year sabbatical 2002-2007) he might have made British Heavyweight Champion by 2000 and has indeed in later life been World Heavyweight Champion for the Knight family's WAW and several UK New School promotions.