Questions for Harley Race?

[floyd]

Wow What a fantastic guy to interview.

 

I'd also echo Tim Cooke's question about Race' thoughts on Japan and wrestling Baba, Jumbo, etc..

[Guest DietSoda]

Ask him his thoughts on how tough Kirshner was to beat the count out on a piledriver.

[Ditch]

On what piledriver? Was there a legit injury or something?

[ohtani's jacket]

Ask him his thoughts on how tough Kirshner was to beat the count out on a piledriver.

Now that was funny.

[Loss]

Ditch, he's referring to a debate about Harley Race that took place at this board a while back, with the main complaint being that the piledriver is supposed to be a brutal finisher, and he used it as a mid-match transition.

[Childs]

As an aside to that debate, I've noticed in watching lots of New Japan from the 80s that it wasn't hugely atypical for guys to use the piledriver on the floor as a mid-match transition spot. The move was built up as a killer in the U.S., but it really wasn't treated with the same reverence in Japan. Maybe Harley did it in the wrong context while working some U.S. promotions, but he wasn't the only one doing it.

[Ditch]

Found this writeup of the RF shoot, which adds a bunch on top of the book:

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=47938

 

It's going to be tricky because I want to include book and shoot notes as background, but I'm not sure if I should post them along with the interview or before. Good problem to have though.

[Ditch]

Just got done with round 1 with Harley. He had to break it off early because Ted DiBiase called to invite him to a triple wedding; all of Ted's sons are getting hitched at once. A little more guarded than Scott Norton but still answered most things. The rest will have to wait for a Monday, which he says are his best days.

 

At first he'd answer the phone and I couldn't understand what he was saying, it sounded like "Whirly". But now I realize he's saying "World League", as in WLW. Makes sense that his wife gave me that number, not their home phone.

[Guest kidd]

He had to break it off early because Ted DiBiase called to invite him to a triple wedding; all of Ted's sons are getting hitched at once.

What I wouldn't give for a family portrait from that event of of all the bride's and Ted Sr.'s wife in dresses and Poppa and the 3 sons all sporting the million dollar man tuxes at the wedding. That would be PRICELESS...

[Ditch]

My last question to Harley was a general "what other Japanese guys besides Baba and Jumbo stood out" deal, and he got about three sentences out when the phone rang. He said "Yoshimura" was the best wrestler at the time he first went to Japan ('67?), and and I figured that he maybe got a name mixed up because I ain't heard of no Yoshimura. But I did a search today...

 

http://www.puroresu.com/personalities/yoshimura_michiaki/

 

Anyone know more than what's there? Any footage?

[Indikator]

Ask Yohe, I think there is a match with him against Beyer out on DVD. IIRC he also had a "legendary" match against Karl Gotch around 1960 that probably isn't on tape. Legendary as in "the Japanese hold it in high respect" (Like Inoki vs Roland Bock)

Beyer he had to wrestle a Japanese broomstick called Michiaki Yoshimura. One could assume that Harley thought he was the toughest guy over there.

[Ditch]

Beyer he had to wrestle a Japanese broomstick called Michiaki Yoshimura. One could assume that Harley thought he was the toughest guy over there.

Huh?

[Indikator]

Yoshimura sucked so Harley did probably not praise him for his armbars or spinning toe holds

[Ditch]

Finally wrapped things up today. The biggest thing I'm taking away is that the WWE/Morishima thing isn't dead the way it was reported. Not a heck of a lot of details on anything, but he answered most questions.

 

High praise for Yoshimura, who Harley wrestled a lot in his JWA run.

[PeteF3]

Yoshimura sucked so Harley did probably not praise him for his armbars or spinning toe holds

You're thinking of Toyonobori, the guy that Beyer wrestled and carried to a 60-minute draw. He was a yokozuna who the JWA had in mind as the heir apparent to Rikidozan.

 

Michiaki Yoshimura was sort of the Jumbo to Rikidozan's Baba. There's only a little bit of him on film but he looked like a good worker, as an underdog babyface type.

[Ditch]

Here it is:

http://pulsewrestling.com/2008/11/25/pulse...iew-book-notes/

[Indikator]

-Trevor Murdoch knocked out a NOAH wrestler during one of his tours in Japan, and the wrestler yelled at him- in English- in front of everyone in the locker room. He wasn’t invited back, but Harley was able to get him into NOAH’s dojo, where he improved and regained NOAH’s respect. Murdoch got a dark match and while there caught Chris Benoit’s eye, leading to him getting signed by WWE.

 

His 2002 tour

 

NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 1

24. August 2002 @ Differ Ariake in Tokyo, Tokyo (Japan)

Vader and Trevor Rhodes beat Takeshi Morishima and Masao Inoue (12:56 Minutes)

2 NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 2

25. August 2002 @ Tokorozawa Hall in Tokorozawa, Saitama (Japan)

Akitoshi Saito and Yoshinobu Kanemaru beat Scorpio and Trevor Rhodes (13:56 Minutes)

3 NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 3

27. August 2002 @ Town Gymnasium in Bunsui, Niigata (Japan)

Akitoshi Saito besiegte Trevor Rhodes (8:03 Minutes)

4 NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 4

29. August 2002 @ Movement Park Gymnasium in Nagano, Nagano (Japan)

Vader, Scorpio and Trevor Rhodes beat Tamon Honda, Masao Inoue and Junji Izumida (8:34 Minutes)

5 NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 5

31. August 2002 @ Tsukuba Kapio in Tsukuba, Ibaraki (Japan)

Takeshi Morishima besiegte Trevor Rhodes (12:26 Minutes)

6 NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 6

1. September 2002 @ AI-Messe in Yamanashi, Yamanashi (Japan)

Akira Taue, Tamon Honda and Junji Izumida beat Vader, Bison Smith and Trevor Rhodes (11:17 Minutes)

7 NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 7

2. September 2002 @ Citizen Gymnasium in Isesaki, Gunma (Japan)

Akira Taue and Mohammed Yone beat Bison Smith and Trevor Rhodes (13:19 Minutes)

8 NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 8

5. September 2002 @ Korakuen Hall in Tokyo, Tokyo (Japan)

Yoshihiro Takayama besiegte Trevor Rhodes (4:22 Minutes)

9 NOAH Navigation Over The Date Line - Day 9

7. September 2002 @ Prefectural Gymnasium in Osaka, Osaka (Japan)

Jun Akiyama and Akitoshi Saito beat Bison Smith and Trevor Rhodes (13:36 Minutes)

 

I wonder which match it was. I guess Takayama was his punishment. Man, I really want to see that match right now

I wonder how the knocked out guy could be. Pretty much anybody outside of Mori/Kanemaru and Inoue had a high standing, and AFAIK Mori and Kanemaru are not fluent in English from the times I was around them. But I know that most foreigners kayfabe at some point (I recommend it in fact) so I am indecisive about them

[Indikator]

"Harley was the first to do the kneedrop"

 

I seriously doubt that. Around 1958 a Swiss guy worked as Ludwig Von Krupp in NYC and when he went back to Europe prior to Races debut he introduced the Top Rope Kneedrop (aka Bombs Away) there and incited a riot. I can't remember who he got it from, maybe Buddy Rogers.

 

Great link by the way. It would be awesome if somebody would update the TSM shoot interview notes like that

[kjh]

Has Harley never heard the story about Killer Kowalski ripping off part of Yukon Eric's ear while performing a knee drop in a match that happened when he would be 8 or 9 years old? Maybe he invented it in kindergarten?