RAW talk

[Mad Dog]

Lawler blasts everyone though because in his mind he was the greatest wrestler to ever walk the face of the earth and the second greatest was Bill Dundee.

[Loss]

Lawler blasts everyone though because in his mind he was the greatest wrestler to ever walk the face of the earth and the second greatest was Bill Dundee.

Lawler's definitely up there for what he accomplished in his own territory, and it saddens me that he embarrasses himself so much now in WWE. He could have been NWA World Champion at any point from 1973 to 1987 or so and it would have worked. He wrestled the exact same arena every week year after year after year and still managed to draw big numbers almost every time out for 20 years, and that's incredibly hard to do when Monday night wrestling at Mid South Coliseum is something that happens every single week. He's probably the greatest interview of all time -- only Ric Flair, Jim Cornette and Mick Foley come close. Foley is probably level with him actually, Flair is just a step behind him and Cornette shamelessly ripped off Lawler's style, only making it more hyperactive, which he himself has admitted. He's wrestled as a top face and a top heel and did both roles in excellent fashion, and his early days in the WWF feuding with Bret Hart were great until they turned him into a cartoon character by 1995 or so. In terms of making people truly believe in an angle, selling an upcoming match, getting the crowd involved and playing a role, he's as good as any wrestler ever.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

Part of me thinks Lawler is more than a little bitter over ECW gaining more exposure than Memphis did, Kauffman angle aside.

[Loss]

The USWA never tried to expand like ECW did. Only once did they have anything to do with a PPV, and it was a collaborative effort. Longevity isn't even close, considering Lawler was the top star in Memphis from 1973 to 1997. The reason Memphis lasted as long as they did was because they *didn't* try to break new ground -- they were content to run spot shows all around Memphis, Kentucky, Arkansas and at farthest, Evansville, Indiana. Had the USWA ever made a serious bid to go national and it failed, I'd be more inclined to say he was bitter.

[Guest HungryJack]

More exposure possibly, but there's no way you can say that ECW drew more money and was more successful than Memphis was.

[Mad Dog]

He's just in that school of thought that thinks Memphis was the greatest thing ever.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

The USWA never tried to expand like ECW did. Only once did they have anything to do with a PPV, and it was a collaborative effort. Longevity isn't even close, considering Lawler was the top star in Memphis from 1973 to 1997. The reason Memphis lasted as long as they did was because they *didn't* try to break new ground -- they were content to run spot shows all around Memphis, Kentucky, Arkansas and at farthest, Evansville, Indiana. Had the USWA ever made a serious bid to go national and it failed, I'd be more inclined to say he was bitter.

Whether Memphis/USWA actively tried to expand or not, I don't doubt that Lawler at least wishes Memphis could have been bigger, and that when he sees an inferior copy of Memphis gained national press and notoriety it undoubtedly rubs him the wrong way, and I feel plays a part on his anti-ECW feeling.

[Strummer]

if you've seen the ECW DVD, you know that Lawler really does dislike ECW, it's not a work. From watching the DVD, one of the big reasons was that he thought the wrestlers were too small to be believable. In fact he made reference to this on commentary at the ECW Raw in the Manhattan Center in 97

[Loss]

There's probably truth in that. Do you think there are similarities between them, though? When I see ECW, I see more FMW/IWA influence than anything stateside, really. The booking style was its own animal -- I don't know what I would call the influence there.

[Loss]

I don't doubt that he really feels that way, but I think the ECW and Monday Night Wars DVDs were every bit as much a work as the weekly TV.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

There's probably truth in that. Do you think there are similarities between them, though? When I see ECW, I see more FMW/IWA influence than anything stateside, really. The booking style was its own animal -- I don't know what I would call the influence there.

When it was Eastern, ECW was undoubtedly influenced by Memphis, because Eddie Gilbert was booking, and when Paul E took over it was still influenced by Memphis, but also by Florida, because Paul E broke in in Florida. As ECW went with more and more extreme stuff, it became less and less Memphis/Florida influenced, simply because they were going into areas that neither Memphis or Florida did, and they became similar to FMW/IWA, but I don't think they were influenced by them to anywhere like they were by Memphis and Florida.

[Strummer]

I don't doubt that he really feels that way, but I think the ECW and Monday Night Wars DVDs were every bit as much a work as the weekly TV.

MNW most likely, but I honestly didn't get that vibe from the ECW DVD. Vince never saw ECW as a threat, so he allowed a more accurate portrayal

[sek69]

I was amazed by the fact that they kept continuity on the "Lawler Hates ECW" angle from 1997, but they can't bother to remember anything that happened on RAW more than two weeks prior.

[MyOwnSummer]

 

Also the colour of the briefcase somehow changed in the last 7 days.

Edge bent the other briefcase over HBK's head pretty bad last week.

[Guest Some Guy]

I think that Lawler's assertion that ECW guys were too small is insane considering he's under 6' himself and Bill Dundee is like 5' 2" or something.

 

With Lawler it probably has more to do with the fact that ECW was actually portrayed pretty well by the WWF in 97 and USWA, despite having a long term relationship with Vince never got much pub at all outside of a few mentions here and there. I suspect it is partially a work because USWA and ECW worked together in 97 and Lawler worked a few ECW shows, doing his anti-ECW gimmick.

 

In 97, JR was a face announcer and so was Vince, ECW was a face promotion in the Northeast, so having them run it down would get them heel heat, Lawler was still a heel at that point in WWF so it made sense for him to be the one who kicked off the angle. I think they could have done a lot more with ECW than they did and funded it better to be another official breeding ground for talent.

 

Plus, in his book Lawler brags about "Creating" hardcore wrestling in Memphis with the Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl. I would assume, that he rightly believes that they did it better than ECW ever did, they drew more money in a smaller terrritory and that he might feel slighted that Heymen gets tons of credit and he is perceived as the joke that he currently is, rather than a true legend and great overall talent that he was.

 

So, it is probably a partial shoot and partial work.

[Al]

There's probably truth in that. Do you think there are similarities between them, though? When I see ECW, I see more FMW/IWA influence than anything stateside, really. The booking style was its own animal -- I don't know what I would call the influence there.

What people miss often is that ECW had a forerunner in Philly, Tri-State Wrestling. That promotion ran in the early 90s and featured Eddie Gilbert, Cactus Jack and Terry Funk, among others. They frequently held barbed wire matches, and in addition had such brainstorms as the fan participation lumberjack match, the reverse cage battle royal, and the last blood battle royal. It's the promotion that featured Gilbert and Foley's best of 3 falls match, where each fall was a different gimmick (as an aside, this had fun results, the second fall was a stretcher match, where a wrestler had to beat his opponent so badly that he could return for the third fall, and the final cage match ended in a double DQ). They also featured matches such as Owen Hart vs. Takayuki Iizuka. ECW was very much simply a continuation of that promotion.