Mad Dog

That's the point though. We as Americans tend to root for assholes because they're funny, do what we want to see, etc. That was what I was getting at. Hulk Hogan is the pro wrestling equal of Bugs Bunny. So the negative qualities he showed as a face make perfect sense in that kind of context.

Bugs and Wile E. only worked that one cartoon right? That really did introduce a certain arrogance to the character that never really was shown in the Road Runner cartoons. But those were really just big spotfest type shows. No real substance other than the big spots.

I'm not sure. I think you would get really wonky results with so few people in this kind of vote. A small group of voters have conspired to screw teams over in the past. 2 or 3 low votes would cost him dearly with so few votes that he might easily fall to 3 or 4 on a greats list. Jumbo and Lawler would probably have a big variation but not fall as far as Flair might for some people.

All it takes is a couple of 8 votes and Flair will drop like a rock in such a small sample size.

They both died before they got the chance to be a real disgrace in the ring. You don't hold Jerry Rice's last 5 years against him when you call him the greatest of all time at wide receiver. Him staying too long doesn't erase the fact that he holds essentially ever relevant record at the position. The same should apply to Flair. The fact that he held on too long doesn't take away from the fact that he had a solid 8-10 years of being an elite pro wrestler.

Yeah. That's actually a perfect example of Bugs pulling a Hulk Hogan. I find it interesting Sam didn't get mentioned. But he seemed to be more of the monster heel variety than the stooge heels that Bugs had faced off with. Though, again, the Hulk Hogan comparison holds up well with Sam as Bugs wasn't afraid to use dirty tactics. And there was the cartoon where Bugs dug his way into the prison and Sam was just some poor schmuck doing his job that Bugs essentially fucked over.

You forgot the double turn that Bugs and Daffy did in Duck Amuck.

I would have fewer problems with Brock Lesnar getting in than I do with Angle and would have with Edge.

Looking over the list. Angle, Undertaker, Michaels and Steamboat are the weakest candidates as far as drawing power goes. I think Undertaker is probably the worst as there's solid numbers to back his case up for being a poor draw on PPV.

Yep. Hennig MIGHT be the guy with the worst record as a main event draw to ever appear on the ballot. I'm trying to think offhand of who would be worse. HHH and Angle were both pretty spotty as draws. Angle bombed so badly so quickly in 2001 that they did the hotshot back to Austin.

No one watches Smackdown so it doesn't count.

I think if more people saw his run as AWA Champion they would be more open to admitting his flaws as Mr. Perfect.

I think they're the bottom 3 and Batista is probably the 4th worst candidate on the list. I just think it's ridiculous if Edge gets in over any number of those people. I mean, why the hell is Moolah on the list at all? She's disliked strong, and for good reason but her impact on women's wrestling is undeniable and you really can't start adding other women until you have Moolah and Burke sitting in your HoF. This is why his HoF is stupid. Guys that are still active and modern get weighted far too heavily against older wrestlers with clearly better credentials.

Because Hennig was awesome in the AWA and looked like a superstar that was just on a different planet from everyone around him.

I only would vote for Hennig over Edge because I see his run as AWA Champion having more merit than any of Edge's big moments. By which, I mean that Hennig had the entire promotion built around him for that reign where Edge never had any of his reigns as the centerpiece of the WWE. EDIT: And Morales sucked hard but he was a proven draw, he had some big programs and he was the no. 1 or 2 face in the WWWF throughout the 70s.

I was thinking about this thread the other night when I was watching some Bugs Bunny cartoons. I think Hogan is just how Americans like their good guys. Look at Bugs as an example. He was a poor sport, he was a jerk, he started shit with people, he treated his friends poorly, etc. Yet you still rooted for Bugs in the cartoons even when he was the antagonist to Elmer, some random hillbilly or Daffy. I think Hogan might just be a cultural product.

Going back to Edge. Just in his field alone I would vote for the following over him: Batista Curt Hennig Ivan Koloff Fabulous Moolah Pedro Morales Dick Murdoch Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson)' Sgt. Slaughter Jimmy Snuka Sting Mr. Wrestling II

HHH has an amazing ability to come off poorly in any given situation.

I've really come to see Vince's side of things for the Montreal screwjob. I kind of think if I was in his position I would've done the same thing. Hart leaving with the belt would've killed the company and it's easy to say now that he would've dropped the belt on Raw.

I take issue with the training part a little. DG has essentially become the no.2 promotion in Japan and most of that roster was trained by Ultimo Dragon. That's a pretty big deal. This would be like if Shawn Michaels' Texas Academy had become huge and become second to only the WWE. He essentially trained an entire promotion that has become a big deal. It might not be Hogan and Luger but it's still a big deal.

Because Meltzer's HoF sucks.

I think Ultimo Dragon is a combo guy. He should get in as a worker/booker/owner. He has made a huge impact on the Japanese scene this decade as he took essentially his training school and turned it into a promotion that surpassed All Japan and is going to surpass NOAH and become the second biggest Japanese promotion. He deserves Hall of Fame for that. I also don't think he was that bad after his surgery. Sure, he wasn't quite the same but I've seen plenty of good matches with him in CMLL and DG over the years.

Chavo's real downfall as a worker was aping Eddie's act after his death.

You know, I can forgive spot blowing but Sabu really broke that pet peeve of mine. I hate when guys blow a spot and instead of just moving on and adjusting, they go right back and retry the spot they just fucked up. That's where Sabu's spot blowing would really piss me off sometimes.

I would say in 2002, Chavo was a better worker. Was Edge ever the best worker in one of his big matches or in the top half of workers in a match? Look at some of his biggest matches. He was either 5 or 6 out of the Smackdown Six and let's be really honest, Edge was just along for the ride for that series. He got to be that role player in the NBA that gets to come in and score 6 pts. and leave the heavy lifting to the stars. In the big Hardys/Dudleys/E&C stuff, he was maybe better than D-Von in those matches. In E&C, Christian carried that team during promos, in the ring and in just about every way. I'd even argue that during the Brood days that he was worse than Gangrel was in the ring. During his big main event run, he was maybe better than Taker and Batista. I would argue he isn't even Lex Luger level. He hasn't had any year that comes close to 1989 and 1997 for Luger. People like to forget that Luger was the hottest babyface in the United States in 1997 and him beating Hogan on Nitro was a big deal. A bigger deal than anything Edge was involved with. And Edge didn't have a year of consistently good matches like Luger did in 1989. Sting is the same way. Edge doesn't have anything that touches the Vader feud as far as quality of matches. And Edge doesn't have any matches that were as big a deal as the Sting/Hogan matches in 1997 were. In general, I don't see how Edge has really any justification to be a HoF wrestler. He's just not good enough or important enough to be in a HoF. He was never put in a position to draw, he was never the number 1 face or heel on the roster and he was never even a top 5 worker on the roster. There's literally a list of dozens of guys that aren't in Meltzer's stupid little HoF that have credentials that shame Edge that aren't being considered. That's just pathetic.