Timbo Slice

So then what's the argument really about? You not liking someone's opinions because they don't match your own? You thinking the evidence they bring to the table is bunk? What do you think is at stake, anyways? Those questions are all something everyone had to think about, and everybody came up with unique lists. You seem to be arguing both for the discourse and for your methods to be held above all else, which is quite the juxtaposition and only leads to strawman arguments. The evidence you are citing are formed on opinions you've created for yourself. Just like anyone else has in this entire project. Yet you're also suggesting that there is the One True Way To Evaluate Wrestlinf with BIGLAV, an arbitrary system based on the evidence YOU think is vital to what makes a good wrestler and something you presented in a way that was above the processes of others. Your need for burden of proof is much different than others and rightfully so, to be honest. The arguments that have been presented definitely boil down to what I'm talking about in the long run and if you skip through all the arguments, we all just end up shrugging out shoulders, but you've presented your opinions in a way that can belittle how others constructed their lists. My point is that there is no one right way to construct the list, and that everybody's basis for how they made it is just as important as anyone's.

I'm at 82 for the Top 110. My point about the whole objectivity/subjectivity matter isn't to limit the discourse at all. My point is that everyone's opinions matter, and regardless of how much people have dove into wrestling and have their views on what makes it good or not, that they have a say in it. The goal is for the list to be representative of the majority, not of the minority who happen to have the most abrasive opinions. People who have lurked here have come out and given their opinions on why they've made their decisions and I'm way more in favor of that than possibly any other part of the process. The more people who feel good about voicing their opinions on the project, the better. Gives us more information to think about when it comes to how people enjoy wrestling.

Seems to me if you insist that "anything goes", if you dispense with the categories of evidence and burden of proof, if you dispense with any sense of a shared criteria, there isn't much left to say but "hey this was my pick, tell me yours." Even with criteria, people would see it in different ways. Still trying to squeeze objectivity out of a subjective medium. Child's last point is spot on.

Really surprised Chigusa went above Jaguar considering if you watched 80's joshi at all, Jaguar was such a standout. Chigusa was definitely good, but Jaguar was a cut above in a lot of ways. I'm out of the running for most in the Top 100, I feel.

I have 86 left.

I do hate Peeps.

I love you so much for that post on 120, Steven. Made the entire project worth it.

Kansai at 125 is odd to me because I think she, along with Kandori, had the most upward movement in her rep as the project went on. I figured she could have snuck into the Top 100. Oh well. Gotta make room for Triple H and all that.

This is why I put her 99. It was me being okay with what I thought was her best stuff (which was really high end) while also knowing her faults were almost enough to drop her off entirely.

Minoru was also someone I had considered for my list, but he just missed out. Has a case for the most unique wrestler on the planet right now.

There should be a pretty wide range from the joshi wrestlers. I still have 7 that haven't been accounted for yet, and a few of them should be locks for the Top 50-75 range.

Dude, he bought an island because he thought there was buried treasure on it. Of course he's the guy trying to hunt the World's Most Dangerous Game.

And it's anonymous for Inoki. Defend thyself!

Aw, crap, yeah, scanned through and forgot to mention Ozaki, who I also had in my Top 50. Fucking ay.

I'll say this about Takada because I have one of the stronger negative statements about him in the entire thread. I got way more into guys that were people I thought were better at the style (Tamura), the BattlArts style workers and then finally saw Fujiwara, who combined facials and tremendous transitions in a way that Takada wasn't that great at. That's basically my reasoning behind it. Today has been brutal for guys I thought I could have been the high vote on, as I went Top 25 with Kandori and Top 50 with Kikuchi, only to see both of them fall. I'm now basically 100% confident the only person I'll have as my high vote is my #1.

That being said, his tag work might be the best in the 80's. I ran into that issue with Yatsu as well, because I really liked him, especially when he was fiery with Chosyu, and I wish I saw more of his tag with Jumbo, because I'm pretty sure that would have put me over the top on him.

I had Andre at 53. I feel that's where he's going to land both for selfish reasons and as a good guesstimate considering his work in recent years has been revelatory to some. I know that until I had done the show with Steven there was absolutely no way I would have had him on the list, even with the Hansen match.

Man alive Henry getting beat by the likes of Triple H...

One of my final guys cut was Necro. Probably the third guy behind Psicosis and Christian I feel bad about.

Boricua stealing my joke, damn it!!!!

At least Magnum was higher than Edge. I'll take solace in that. I think I made a huge mistake not putting Psicosis somewhere on my ballot. In retrospect, him and Christian not making it are really haunting me.

Aw, fuck. Takada hasn't gone yet. And Yamazaki (and Yoshida for that matter) are SO much better than him, even if you play the massive subjectivity card.

Ogawa the 6th to drop for me. There are gonna be some recent candidates that are going to be WAY high on this list, it seems.

Not surprised Yoshida is this high because while some joshi fans aren't all into her, the ones that are into her are into her BIG. She another close leave off my list.

I considered both MS-1 and Emilio for my ballots but I didn't get a chance to see enough of them, even with Emilio's great stuff with Dandy and the all-time great MS-1/Sangre Chicana match. There was a part of me that wanted to put them on the ballot for that alone, though. And there's no doubt in my mind they would have made it had I gotten to some of the older lucha stuff sooner.