Loss

Didn't Austin say that he would retire at the time if it meant he could keep custody of his children? Or was that another Internet rumor?

In fairness, I can't see people complaining if they went all out with a push for Miz, Morrison, Kingston, or MVP.

I can honestly say after all this time that I still don't understand what role Linda played in the expansion of the WWF out of the Northeast, and what her day-to-day duties were prior to the company going public. Vince was securing TV deals, stealing syndication from territories, blocking other promotions out of buildings in the biggest markets, etc., so what was Linda doing? Saying she was "on the business side" when all of those transactions were "on the business side" doesn't really answer the question. I know her title, but I don't know her job.

I'm curious about how training pro wrestlers has evolved over the years, and if wrestlers are not trained properly anymore. I've said this before, but I'd like to say it again. There is no single thing that would eliminate all of these problems, but I think changing the bumping style would be significant. Wrestlers are trained to take flat-back bumps. They don't in Mexico, and the wrestlers tend to have longer, more productive careers, and the few wrestlers in the U.S. that don't take flat back bumps (Flair, DDP) have wrestled at a high level at an older age than most. I still think there's something to it. I also suspect part of the problem is that there are so many training camps out there now. When most of the old-timers broke in, it wasn't nearly as easy to actually break into wrestling. You hear old-timers make angry comments sometimes about how it's too easy to get into pro wrestling now, and the reason I make that point is that I wonder if the quality of the training has diminished over time. We can see it manifest itself in other ways: wrestlers aren't as adapt at throwing working strikes or working the mat as they were in the past, so it would make sense that they are being taught how to bump improperly also. Especially with so many quick-buck scam schools out there.

It does. That's why I have to ask why you don't crack on Hogan for looking old or "talking out of his ass" when he lies, in the same way you have Michaels, Flair, Funk, Race, and others in the past.

Flair and Hogan, arguably the two biggest stars of this generation, have lost almost everything due to divorce(s). Crazy.

Maybe Flair's next stop will be to do Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew, or the sex addict show on now that I can't remember the name of.

I'm not a fan of aggressive message board moderating at all. That said, I kinda feel like the jdw post about Ginger Lynn should be off limits. I don't want to "lay down the law", as much as I really want to encourage that topic to just die. Please? Thank you.

All that tells me is that promotion styles can be similar in two fields that are different. You can compare Dana White to Vince McMahon, which Dave does, and I think has merit. But comparing wrestling to MMA is different from comparing a wrestling promoter to an MMA promoter. If that's the only point being made, you can also compare concert promoters to wrestling promoters, or circus promoters to wrestling promoters. But it doesn't mean that concerts and circuses are pro wrestling. Sometimes, the comparisons in promoting are taken to the next level when they shouldn't be, and it's weird and wrong when people start comparing Tito Ortiz to Ric Flair or whatever.

I think Ricky Morton getting in Flair's face and pushing him to the limit is really the best thing about the Crockett era. 1986 was a banner year because they had so many fresh faces and were putting people in key spots where they got over. The same thing was happening with Dusty being programmed with the Midnights and Cornette.

In regards to Dick Murdoch, maybe Dave, if he ever gets back into the discussion, will simply say that you can't measure the 1970s/1980s laziness of Dick Murdoch by seeing footage of him through 2009 eyes. In order to truly appreciate what the standards of laziness were at that time, you have to see the laziness in context.

I'm really interested in Linda getting to a point where she starts talking about hot-button issues. Let's hear her start talking about gay marriage, abortion rights, immigration, gun control, affirmative action in college admissions, climate change, racial profiling, and welfare. It's easy to say you want fiscal responsibility -- who's going to oppose that? This race will become interesting when Linda starts having to position herself on issues. Many of those topics are issues that directly affect the WWE fanbase, so it will be interesting to see if Linda's opinions are spun as WWE's position on the same issues.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11...hilia-video.php Connecticut Democrats filed a Federal Elections Commission complaint today against Linda McMahon, her campaign and World Wrestling Entertainment, charging they violated the law by removing racy WWE videos last month. McMahon (R-CT) is one of several candidates hoping to challenge Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT) next year. She is the former CEO of World Wrestling Entertainment and wife of WWE principal Vince McMahon. After TPMDC and others posted videos of WWE scenes depicting simulated rape and a wrestler pretending to have sex with a corpse, they were taken down from YouTube. We spoke at the time to WWE's VP of PR and corporate communications, who said accusations the removal had anything to do with politics are false, but Democrats charge the move is equivalent to a campaign contribution from a corporation. "It's an ongoing battle with online piracy," Robert Zimmerman told TPMDC. "It's copyrighted material, it's our intellectual property." He said they "scour" the Internet for their videos and said they go after all of them, not just ones used for political purposes, adding: "We would love to be able to take everything down." But the Democrats suggest that WWE removing the videos is considered an "in-kind corporate contribution" because the corporation did not remove the more than 500,000 videos that also could be considered copyrighted. They have asked the FEC investigate and "impose the maximum fines permitted for such violations." "WWE has selectively enforced its rights only insofar as they benefit Ms. McMahon's candidacy. The facts demonstrate that WWE made expenditures in connection with an election, in clear violation of FECA," the complaint charges. "WWE expended its corporate resources - including the time of Mr. Zimmerman and other corporate personnel, and its attorneys - all used in the service of Ms. McMahon's campaign to force YouTube to remove only the videos that reflected poorly on Ms. McMahon, while ignoring the multitude of other WWE-owned material still hosted on YouTube." McMahon spokesman Ed Patru called the charge a "baseless accusation" and said the campaign has complied with all FEC rules and regulations. "This latest attack from Chris Dodd speaks volumes about just how worried he is about Linda's campaign," Patru said. "Chris Dodd has an enormous credibility problem, and one of the reasons people don't trust him is because of his apparent coordination with AIG executives in which he gave carte blanche to his political supporters instead of regulating them, and then arranged behind closed doors to have them receive millions in taxpayer-funded bonuses. It's troubling that Chris Dodd's political apparatus seems more concerned with watching wrestling videos on the Internet than restoring trust in government." We've done a new round of calls asking for comment from WWE and will update if they respond. In the meantime, Connecticut Democrats are using the issue for political mileage. "If Linda McMahon is going to talk glowingly about her role as CEO of the WWE, then she also must answer for the kind of female-degrading, sexually-exploitive, steroid-fueled programming it's become known for," said Nancy DiNardo, chairwoman of the Connecticut Democratic Party. "And furthermore, she's sorely mistaken if she thinks the WWE can do her dirty work for her as she stays above the fray," DiNardo added. "She might claim to be a different kind of Senator, but Linda McMahon's illegal coordination with the WWE doesn't do anything to bolster that image. If anything, it looks like McMahon has chosen to call in a corporation run by her family to fight her battles for her."

I always feel like that listening to Dean Malenko.

Yeah, I know he and Lawler didn't like each other and they turned it into an angle (or something like that, I don't think I'm completely correct in how I phrased it), but I'm curious where that originated, and if it subsided over time as they made money together.

Shane McMahon running TNA would be the only thing I can think of that would be bigger than signing Hogan and Bischoff (aside from Bob Morris' scenario where Rock returns to wrestling and decides to go to TNA). And the chances of Shane leaving WWE for TNA to compete against his own family are chances I would call less than zero. That said, Hogan and Bischoff coming in, along with upcoming key things happening like Jim Ross's WWE contract expiring in a few months, should be interesting.

Ha, yes! I'll fix it. For anyone coming in later, I originally typed "Dean Malenko has quit wrestling at the front counter for an airline."

Most of this issue is an in-depth Bruiser Brody bio. This may be the first of its kind (I haven't looked yet to see if he did something this in depth on other deaths earlier in the decade). WWF -- The WWF is negotiating to sign DJ Peterson and Curt Hennig. Curt Hennig is at a disadvantage and is already in the doghouse, for having twice agreed to terms and then backing out. -- Hercules and Ultimate Warrior got in trouble for their brawling as part of an angle at a recent TV taping, because they ended up damaging a lot of TV monitors, and Hercules needed 76 stitches on his right arm for hitting a table. -- 7/23 in Nashville drew a sellout 10,000 crowd headlined by Andre vs Duggan. NWA -- The Great American Bash drew 350,000-400,000 buys, making the profit about $5.5-$6 million, about what was expected. (My note: Interesting that an NWA show in 1988, when the company was in freefall, gets a PPV number that WWE would do handstands for on a typical B-show.) All of the cable companies have already agreed to carry Starrcade in December, which means that clearance shouldn't be as a big of a challenge for that show as it was for the Bash. After Wrestlemania III, IV, and Survivor Series, this was the most successful PPV in wrestling history up until that time. Most of the buyrates came, not surprisingly, from the Carolinas and the Southeast, where the show drew more than Wrestlemania IV. It did really poorly in the Los Angeles and New York markets, which are the key media markets. -- Jack Petrik told a Tokyo newspaper he would run the NWA after the Turner buyout. TBS would set policy, he would enforce it, and Crockett and Dusty would handle the wrestling side of it all. This was the first published report to confirm that TBS was trying to buy the company. -- 7/23 in Philly drew a $167,800 gate for War Games. By comparison, the WWF ran the same night and drew around a $116,035 gate. Dave has heard conflicting reports on the WWF's gate though, with some saying it was even less, in the $77,000 range. -- Consensus on the Bash shows: the War Games matches are as good as any live matches you'll ever see, Fantastics-Midnights is great, and the rest of the card is terrible. AWA -- Verne Gagne is planning Wrestlerock III to air on PPV. The show will be in the 55,000-seat Metrodome in Bloomington, MN, and will have ZZ Top in concert. The show was originally going to happen on election night, but it was changed to two days earlier. Supposedly, wrestlers from five promotions will appear on the show, but the only confirmed match Dave knows about is Madusa Miceli vs Magnificent Mimi. OTHER -- When Bob Geigel restarts Central States, Tommy Gilbert will be booker. Geigel is no longer working with World Class because travel costs of sending wrestlers to their shows were putting him in debt. Mike George, Vince Apollo, Solomon Grundy, Billy Travis and Mike Stone will work for the group. -- Kerry Brown was fired by Stampede. Shows are now being headlined by Makhan Singh vs Steve Blackman. Dave says Blackman isn't bad for his experience level, but is also obviously not ready for the spot he's in. -- Dick Slater has heat for working WWC in Puerto Rico, with lots of wrestlers wanting an unofficial boycott of Puerto Rico because of Brody's death. -- Jerry Lawler, Bam Bam Bigelow, Bob Orton, and Curt Hennig will be headed to Continental when they do their CWF title tournament. -- Dean Malenko has quit wrestling to work at the front counter for an airline. -- Brother Ernest Angel has completely disappeared, and no one knows where he is. -- Brickhouse Brown will be turned babyface in Memphis soon to feud with Robert Fuller. Dave says Fuller's heel act is really good, but he's overexposed from doing too many interviews per show. However, because of a thin talent pool, there isn't really anything that can be done about that.

There's no "behind their backs" about it. There is no intent to hide anything, nor is anything hidden. Plenty of people here have gone back and forth with one or both of them in the past on a number of subjects. After you do it a few times, you realize it accomplishes nothing. For me, there is no one on any message board more frustrating to argue with than Bryan Alvarez, so I'd rather not. And who's jealous? Dave Meltzer is great at what he does, and I enjoy reading what he writes. Far more often than not, I agree with what he says. To quote Bix, you can criticize something a lot and still like it. There is not a personal element here, it's a disagreement (several disagreements I guess) with specific points made. If you've seen a lot of the regulars at this board argue points, I would say most people probably attack each other with more venom when they disagree here than they ever attack Dave or Bryan.

They're making the comments on a members-only radio show, we're making the comments on an anyone-can-view-it message board that allows anyone to register, and we're the ones doing it behind closed doors?

Who in 1989 WCW used a double arm suplex or a vertical suplex as a finisher? How is Shawn Michaels' superkick more impressive than Muta's moonsault?

Thanks, that's the one! "There is something about commercial video that represents immortality" is the key part there. This implies he put thought into how his matches would look years later.

Close. He said the words "commercial video" specifically.

Someone should pull the Foley quote from the first book about how he always upped the ante for commercial video because he knew that was how his career would be most remembered.

From F4W board: