Loss

Why be skeptical over something so trivial?

(1) The streak wasn't really played up at all in 2001. (2) WWE loves to job wrestlers in their hometowns. (3) Undertaker was billed from Death Valley.

Look at Dave with his sneaky snide comments ...

Flair also kept going on and on about how much he loved partying with Jeff Hardy because Jeff could keep up with him.

I should also add that in the past, Dave has said that arguing that wrestling should go away is a waste of time because wrestling isn't going to go away, so the focus should be on making it better.

The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas Has anyone else read this? The comment about Dave preferring Daniel to die over WWE dying got me thinking about it. Rumored to be based on this quote 19th century philosopher William James: The main reason I mention this is because while I can't speak for SLL's intentions with saying that, I can say it's possible he didn't mean it as an unimaginably horrible insult. There are people who choose to stay wrestling fans -- millions, in fact -- knowing that someone is suffering greatly for the heightened entertainment of the masses, and there are those who, upon becoming hardcore fans, have chosen to leave in protest (or at least thought about it) because they're uncomfortable with the costs of the entertainment. If philosophers have been wrestling with questions like this for hundreds of years and there are still divisions over it, wrestling fans having divisions over it for 18 months after a tragedy doesn't really seem like a stretch. It's not a completely perfect analogy, but there are similarities.

Not a direct criticism of anyone in particular, but I wish we could just argue the points being made about wrestling in the book instead of talking about the author's motives and the motives of those who liked the book. It reminds me of when WWE was going all out to bury Marc Mero personally in the aftermath instead of responding to any of the points he made. There's not really anything shady about someone writing his book and his friends defending it, is there? In Bix's defense, he has both praised and criticized Ring of Hell, just like most people who have read the book. He liked it more than he didn't, but he's not the only one.

I think the big names would have made it draw, I just don't know that it would have been any good because of the parity booking. Within one week of being in the WWF in 2002, the NWO had both laid out Steve Austin and been laid out by him, they had been emasculated on promos, and they had been part of one really strong angle with Rock that was taken one step too far. Lots of good and bad in there. Hogan/Rock drew in spite of the booking because it was a dream match, and the big name feuds would have drawn in spite of the booking because they were dream matches. But the WWF would have booked it all wrong. The right way would have probably been to turn Austin face, park the belt on a heel Hogan quickly, have him defending the title against a different top WWF guy every month until Wrestlemania, when he finally drops it to Steve Austin. After that, Austin defends against Hogan in a rematch, Flair, Sting, Nash, etc. before a big Austin/Goldberg match at Summerslam or something, while the Hogan/Rock feud, and undercard stuff like Rey/Kidman vs Hardy Boys in a ladder match would have rounded out the card. There's also the point that even if they did bring in the big names, real life would have intervened. Flair, Sting, Bischoff, and Goldberg would have been the best assets they had. Hogan would have gone home before the above plan had a chance to be seen through, Hall would have gotten himself fired, and Nash could not have stayed healthy long enough to do a long-term program. Then you get into the idea of WCW being the defacto heel group, when Flair was too respected to be heel, and booking Sting and Goldberg as heels would have been pretty dumb. Scott Steiner could have gotten over strong doing short matches, but HHH was convinced that he could carry him for 20 minutes and ended up completely killing him for the rest of his run (that is really one of HHH's biggest blunders ever and needs to be talked about much more than it is, but that's another topic). One of the things that ended up killing WCW was that the top guys, even if they would have actually wanted to deliver, had trouble doing so because they couldn't stay sober or injury free long enough to actually play a part in an angle from start to finish. Because of the WWF's own internal problems, and the baggage that came with the top guys from WCW, the only chance of success was to do dream matches, which they did with Hogan/Rock and could have done with Hogan/Austin. And because of the styles clash, the chance of them shooting some of the second tier guys to the moon (Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, RVD, Hardyz, E & C, etc) would have been out of the question. Which means when the dream matches ran their course, they would have ended up exactly where they ended up anyway, except maybe in a worse position because who knows what types of missteps would have happened along the way that got plenty of attention.

In a bit of projection, Stephanie thought Nidia was too fat to be on television.

I seem to remember jdw's post about Kurt Angle not knowing what to do between suplexes being very good, although I don't remember if there was anything else to it.

I'm not a gamer at all and don't get the joke. Anyone fill me in?

It's really hard to overstate how damaged Ric Flair was when he entered WWE, and how he pretty much owes this hugely successful year he has had financially to WWE rebuilding his image and pouring so much effort into securing his legacy. They deserve a world of credit for it. Remember, in just 2002, Flair's options were severely limited, and he came in as someone who had fanfare, but that the company couldn't even see getting in the ring. Hogan came in that year and headlined Wrestlemania opposite Rock. They were in two very different places. A few years later, after a lot of Flair rehabbing, while Hogan is still the bigger star in the modern environment, there isn't nearly as much distance between them in terms of future non-wrestling prospects as there was in 2001. Had Flair called it quits when WCW folded, he would not be making nearly as much money as he is now not wrestling at all, and the chance for six-figure shoot interviews, public appearances, and speaking engagements just wouldn't be there. Just the fact that Hogan would like to have Flair part of his future wrestling-related business ventures shows how much Flair's market value has gone up in the past few years.

The sad thing is that it does have a stigma attached to it now, because doing it occasionally would probably be a good idea in the right circumstances now.

I don't know that exposing the business -- at least in Vince's mind -- means the same thing it would have meant in the past. The new work isn't in the ring, it's in the documentaries, and in establishing the bottom line on just about everyone in wrestling history. If someone who is not with WWE comes across as likable or talented on a show not promoted by WWE, and WWE has released a DVD or something smearing that person, it exposes their work. I don't think Vince is upset about the possible exposure of wrestling being fake. I think he's far more upset about WWE's version of history and their opinions on people who have worked for them being exposed as not being unquestionably correct. If Vince was worried about anyone exposing that wrestling is fake, there are about 12 million things he does in WWE that he would no longer do. As a side note, I've been expecting WWE to get all righteously indignant about AIG doing $400,000 corporate retreats after being bailed out by the government, and about all the falling companies on Wall Street and fat cat CEOs. It still might happen. But I hope the Massachusetts-to-Connecticut private jet flight is remembered if it starts up.

I remember in Flair's book that he also said one reason he wanted to run for public office was because he thought public school teachers were underpaid and wanted to change that, which told me he really didn't understand what his party stood for, since we all know that everyone should homeschool their kids and teachers' unions are second to only Roe v. Wade and the city of San Francisco as the worst thing ever!

Is there any way they can possibly put enough people in the gym to get their money back? I see it drawing really well considering the small space, but a show like this could stand to be run in a slightly bigger place if they're really wanting to profit. If the local promotion is good, this main event should draw.

I should also mention that Flair went on this frightening tirade at one point about how if he ever finds out he has terminal cancer, there are all these people he is going to kill in his last days on earth. Yes, he was probably joking, but considering it segued into a Chris Benoit discussion ...

I wanted to elaborate on an example of a little thing the interviewer missed. It's not a big deal, but there are a few things like this mixed throughout. Interviewer: "What are your memories of the first War Games?" Flair: "Refresh my memory, was that the one in The Omni?" Interviewer: "..." Flair: "I think so. Anyway, ..."

In a short matter of time, Kennedy has established himself as perhaps being worse than any wrestler at handling the media. Impressive.

I have been skipping around, but wow, this is pretty exhaustive. Highspots really made an effort to discuss every corner of his career, and asked him about pretty much everyone he ever wrestled. The interviewer missed a few openings I think, but compared to most shoot interviews, he definitely did his homework. There were times when he would mention the correct timeline, Flair would tell him he was wrong, and he finally just let Flair make his point, which I think would be better than engaging in a five minute conversation about whether something happened in 1986 or 1987. What I've seen reveals many good things and bad things about Ric Flair, which I'll talk more about later after I watch more of it. One interesting thing is that he said the Japanese guys hated it when he worked there because he insisted on working the American style, but that the crowd was almost always really heated by the time the match was over, which he thinks proves that you can get the basic American style over in Japan. His main problem with the Japanese style is that he thinks it's too much about offense and that there's not enough focus on selling. He seems to have this idea that everyone in Japan wrestles just like Brody and Hansen. I know that's a sweeping generalization, but it's interesting to see how he ranks the Japanese guys against each other as a result. He praises Jumbo, and he thinks far more of guys like Choshu, Muto, and Fujinami than he does someone like Tenryu. He said he really enjoyed all of the matches he worked in Japan where he worked against other Americans, especially the Martel and Steamboat matches. More later.

Kevin Cook on the Benoit murders: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...amp;hl=examined

How so? Just curious.

Is Flair going to be doing a lot of wrestling radio interviews to promote this? Being interviewed by Dave and Bryan seems like a no-brainer.

I think they'll actually come out okay on all of this (if only barely), but I think they should have run this contest a little bit further back. Most people who have real jobs can't just take off time like that on short notice. The Flair/limo thing is interesting. I wonder if Charles Robinson entered the contest.

From Variety: This will be interesting.