Loss

I'm glad this has remained a big story and shows no signs of dying down. Otherwise, the toxicology results would probably only be known by WON subscribers. Because the story faded away so quickly, there are still a surprising number of people out there who think Eddy Guerrero really was drug free at the time of his death. I think even the worst media coverage is of value, simply because the issue of premature deaths in pro wrestling needs to stay in the spotlight until some type of resolution is made, or WWE and TNA (and the indies) agree to change certain things about the way they do business going forward.

For at least the fourth time, LATE 70S, EARLY 80S.

They're referring to more pre-Hogan era Vince as an announcer. Late 70s/early 80s.

Yes, that match is there. It's not bad, but it's pretty clipped down.

With media focus on wrestling at an all-time high, how smart is it of TNA to hire someone who has had pretty known problems lately and has no-showed several indy dates and a WWE TV taping where he was to start getting pushed hard? Just doesn't seem like a good time to put someone with problems on your payroll.

Funny. Lawler said recently for the UPN affiliate in Memphis that steroids are extremely rare in wrestling.

As I said to Bix last night on AIM, I don't think Vince believes steroids cause any problems, because in his mind, he's done more of them than anyone and he's still alive and feels great at 62 years old. Of course, he tore both of his quads at the same time on a pay-per-view, but let's just forget that ever happened.

I wanted to give an update on this. I apologize this is taking so long. I am currently in the process of moving and do not have access to my entire DVD collection. I will soon, and my goal is to have all the discs ready to go and the second month complete by the end of the month. When I have the disc done and have a match list finalized, I will send out the e-mail with more details at that time.

Your comments weren't too harsh. No worries. My point is that whether the cause was drugs, or a car accident, or something else entirely, the death rate in wrestling is a problem. If WWE (*and* TNA, *and* all other wrestling organizations) are not willing to make suggestions for change, or listen to suggestions for change from the outside, and admit that their approach up until now has been a colossal failure, then wrestling doesn't deserve continued existence. If Vince McMahon can not rid himself of his second-nature desires to make stars out of guys of a certain body type that can't be attained naturally, then he doesn't deserve to continue promoting. WWE is definitely the victim of some unfair criticism from people who don't understand wrestling. No question. But how many times over the years have we seen WWE frame people in a negative light under unfair circumstances, by fabricating stories, taking them out of context or asking pointed questions and only wanting to talk to people who have certain points of view. Look at the way they produce their DVDs. Ted DiBiase is certainly right about one thing -- you do reap what you sow. The only reason some people like Marc Mero are being labeled anti-WWE is because WWE has chosen to make this case of themselves versus the media and the outside world. Anyone who does not agree with every single stance and every single action they are taking is somehow against them, which is only making things worse for them. Wrestling would be much, much better off if it could police itself and control things internally. But the past 15 years have shown that while they have admittedly made improvements, they don't deserve to be trusted to do the right thing, and they don't deserve to get the benefit of the doubt from the media.

I want to slightly rephrase that. Owen Hart died because of the nature of pro wrestling (making fun of rival organizations, not being allowed to turn down unwanted angles due to place on the card). Eddy Guerrero died because of the nature of pro wrestling (years of drug abuse in an attempt to fit the body image needed to be a top money-making guy in wrestling). In both cases, there are obviously other factors. Owen's harness wasn't working. Eddy also used recreational drugs at one time and had a devastating car accident in late 1998 that he later called a suicide attempt. But the nature of pro wrestling was definitely a part of the cause for each death. There are really very few cases on that list where you can honestly say that the nature of pro wrestling had absolutely nothing to do with the death.

It doesn't really matter the cause of the deaths. Owen Hart would still be alive if he weren't a pro wrestler, whether his death was drug-related or not. He died because of stupid petty wrestling bullshit. Eddy Guerrero died because of stupid petty pro wrestling bullshit. There is a parallel, regardless of the cause of death.

Also, at this point, I don't think the media coverage is as bad as it's being made out to be. This has obviously shifted from coverage of one incident involving one pro wrestler to coverage of an entire industry that was ignited by the Benoit story. WWE is behind the curve if they truly believe the story is only about Benoit and whether or not he used steroids at this point, and I can't imagine that they really believe that. It's dishonest and a little sick.

I think the drug testing is obviously part of the problem, but it's not the major issue here. The major issue is that Vince McMahon favors big guys over small guys, and will give big guys more opportunities to main event than small guys. You can argue that he's only giving the fans what they want, but this is also an industry that justifies racism and sexism and homophobia because they are just giving their audience what they want. They primarily cater to filthy people that shouldn't be catered to, in terms of their fanbase, and that's the big issue. The type of fans that prefer roided up big guys to smaller guys don't deserve to get what they want if it's resulting in premature death after premature death. Stop pushing guys based on their physiques. That's the biggest thing WWE could do.

Hasn't Ryder already tried to use this stupid talking before?

I would like for someone to explain for me in terms I can understand why they consider Marc Mero to be out for another 15 minutes of fame, and also why they think Debra is being disingenuous.

By normal standards, David Crockett was horrible, but he was really effective, and I always thought he did a great job putting over title changes. When he said, "NEW World Tag Team Champions", it seemed like a big deal.

That site makes me angry. What is the deal with people thinking that great wrestlers are great people? I don't think we'd see a Justice For Snitsky website.

The Lioness match is really good, but there is also a match against Itsuki Yamazaki around this time that I think is better, that's pretty much the same layout.

My main objection to what DiBiase said was that steroids are drugs, and you can't differentiate it from other drugs without creating a double standard. "Drugs and alcohol" includes steroids. Too many wrestlers have died of enlarged hearts to ignore.

I've gotten a little more information on this and I'm in the process of getting this underway, once I can figure out how to find RSS links for other websites, or how to create them if there aren't any. I know there has to be a way, since A1Wrestling.com automatically updates.

I really thought this show deserved a thread of its own. I will say WWE came off very well here. A lot of the media coverage has been unfair, but they really came across even better than they deserved. As far as media coverage, my instincts tell me in the long run, this will be the most significant. I do think it would have been nice to have Marc Mero and/or Konnan on the show as well to provide a little balance. King took everything all the guests said at face value, and it's understandable why he'd do that, considering that the guests all seemed intelligent and charming. I also think that if Bret really thought there was a big drug problem in today's wrestling, he would have no problem saying so. He just comes across misinformed. Cena was what you'd expect the WWE champ to be on a show like this, and Jericho has represented WWE better than Vince, or McDevitt or anyone else at this point. Maybe I'm overly cynical, but it seems like he's using the exposure to leverage himself a seven-figure contract and big main event run with WWE, and to promote his book. DiBiase attributing most of the deaths to "drugs and alcohol, not steroids" really should have been challenged by someone. Lord knows there were plenty of people on that panel who have lost a lot of close friends and know exactly why they died. Here's the transcript from CNN: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0707/09/lkl.01.html

Jericho lost a lot of the goodwill he had built up with me in his Baltimore Sun article. I don't know if any of you read it or not, but the basic tone was yeah yeah yeah benoit died BUT FOZZY SOLD OUT IN THE UK!! MY NEW BOOK - A LION'S TALE: AROUND THE WORLD IN SPANDEX - COMES OUT THIS FALL. It's also REALLY seems like Jericho is doing this great job defending WWE in the hopes that he can return and not have to lay down for HHH again.

Like what? My first instinct was to disagree with Phil too, but really, try to think of specific examples.

You can do whatever you want. But yeah, guys like Regal and Jericho who have said that are obviously just as scummy as everyone else in wrestling.

I wanted to wait to respond to this as well. I'm still interested in following wrestling in terms of reading message board posts and checking websites. But I tried to watch something the other day, that didn't involve Benoit at all, and it was hard to enjoy. The main reason is that finding a show to watch where everyone involved is still alive is virtually impossible. I found myself just focusing on who was dead and who was alive, which seemed really morbid, so I turned it off and did something else instead. I don't think I realized how desensitized I was to deaths in wrestling until this happened. I'm not going to stop watching wrestling or anything like that. But I hope at some point soon it starts getting fun again. I'm sure we all have enough shit to deal with in our normal lives without watching something for entertainment and being confronted with cold realities like the hazards of drug use, domestic violence and murder. There was a time when I first came online as a teenager, where it seemed like the more I learned, the more fake wrestling became. Now, it's a case where the more we learn, the more real wrestling becomes. I'm going to be watching quite a bit of Mid South soon, which will also have a lot of dead people, but should also do well to remind me why I started watching this stuff in the first place.