Loss

Round 3 Bret Hart (14 votes) defeated Roddy Piper (1 vote) Mick Foley (15 votes) defeated Rick Martel (1 vote) Eddy Guerrero (12 votes) defeated HHH (3 votes) The Rock (13 votes) defeated Shawn Michaels (3 votes) Hulk Hogan (16 votes) defeated Yokozuna (0 votes) Chris Benoit (16 votes) defeated Edge (0 votes) Randy Savage (14 votes) defeated Ric Flair (1 vote) Steve Austin (16 votes) defeated Kurt Angle (0 votes)

I used to know all this, but it's hard to tell now. At one time, I had over 600 tapes in my collection, but my apartment flooded almost two years ago, and some of the tapes were dust afterwards. I was able to salvage some of them, although most of my tapes no longer have cases. But without doing a quick inventory (I'm reorganizing things as we speak) and knowing for sure what I still have: * 5 Midnight Express comps * 6 Ric Flair comps * 1 Steve Austin in WCW comp * 5 Tiger Mask comps * 3 Chris Benoit comps * 2 Chris Jericho comps * 6 Jushin Liger comps I'm including stuff like Samurai TV specials as comps. GH also recently sent me some other stuff, so if you count TV specials, I guess I also have Terry Funk, Mitsuharu Misawa, Genichiro Tenryu, Stan Hansen and Riki Choshu, along with a Dynamite Kid comp. Those are on DVD. My whole collection will be eventually.

They did when Jimmy Miranda died, so I think they do at times. I'm sure they would if Kevin Dunn died as well.

Oh, I agree. The type of fans I'm referring to are the ones who chant "boring!" any time a match goes to the mat and sit on their hands when a match takes its time building up to the climax.

Always sad to see someone die young. I was still holding out hope that he'd come back to the company one day.

I agree that the most over guys in the tournament now being out of the picture and having little place on RAW this week probably had something to do with the low rating. I hate it when stuff like this happens though, because I'm sure it will be credited to the lack of HHH.

Which has nothing to do with his size. And for the record, to whoever said Eddy wrestles a cruiser-ish style ... have you watched him wrestle in the past year? He stays on the mat almost the entire time now, and he usually brawls when he's in against the big guys.

Yeah.

Their board is Members Only, I guess because they're Miami Vice fans. If you sign up, you should be able to view this.

Now ya tell me ... I just registered at a board and got trolled right away, because I don't think they understood the concept of humor. You should see the flaming directed toward Tim in the past over Eddy/JBL that I'm sure will be directed to me as well. Want a link so you can join in, if it comes to that?

I know. If you watch it, though, you'll know what I'm talking about.

How about watching the match and getting back to me? Until then, mouth. Shut.

Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle v Edge & Rey Misterio Jr - WWE No Mercy 2002 You know you're watching a match that takes place in some bizarro world when Kurt Angle outworks Chris Benoit, and when a match would be better if it wasn't for Chris Benoit. That's actually very much the case here, as Angle brings a certain life to the match that Benoit just can't seem to muster. Kurt outwrestles the smaller Misterio early on and gets cocky about it before Rey gets revenge on him and slaps Angle in the back of the head after taking him to the mat in the exact same fashion Angle did to Rey previously. Angle tags in Benoit, and the match just isn't as fun from here, as Edge spends too much time in the ring, and try as they might, Benoit and Edge just don't have any chemistry. Benoit's headlock looks pretty rough, and you don't see Benoit doing anything particularly heelish or animated, instead just working the same spot for far too long. It's actually sort of boring, and that's the type of thing I've never said about any of Benoit's stuff before. This match is missing stooging in the worst way -- Angle did it, and Benoit comes in and doesn't really sell anything over the long haul when Edge comes back, opting instead to just move right along. Angle knees Edge to the back, which sees Edge spear him to the floor in a revenge spot. The spot is fun, but why waste Edge's finisher on an early-match comedy spot? I've never understood that at all. Benoit capitalizes on the distraction created, however, leading to the first face-in-peril sequence of the match. We then get restholds in abundance, and the crowd is almost completely dead for most of this, at least until they pick things up with all the false finishes at the end. They build nicely enough to Edge's hot tag to Rey, but it doesn't get much reaction because it wasn't teased before it was delivered. Benoit countering Rey's wheelbarrow DDT attempt into a crossface is a nice touch, but Benoit is always good for those sorts of things, and this match needed something more grand. Benoit works over Rey's back, which is fine, and then Angle comes in and again makes things somewhat interesting. Transitions were a little too repetitive here, as I can't even count the number of times both sides used a boot to the face off of a blind charge to turn the tide. Toward the end, however, things do pick up, but all the work getting to that point was incredibly boring. Edge and Rey bust out lots of double team moves, but they're all so similar to each other that none of them really stand out, even if they do look great. The battle for the crossface is nice, with Benoit pushing the ropes back, and now, he finally seems interested in building some suspense in this match. From there on, it's just a mess though, with Edge and Angle doing the finisher-stealing stuff typical of the company style, before Angle finally counters again and Edge taps out. Holds like the anklelock should really be sold as instant death if they intend for them to be over. The first five minutes and the last five minutes of this make the match something worthwhile, but everything in between was so pedestrian and heatless. I'm really puzzled that this match has been given so much praise. Yes, they worked two face-in-peril segments, but countless televised matches have done that since. While it was unique at the time, considering most tags didn't work that formula to the fullest, this match didn't really work the tag formula to its full potential either, and being in front of a Southern crowd that's used to that sort of thing, they probably should have embellished things more than they did. ***

Chris Jericho & Christian v Booker T & Goldust - WWE No Mercy 2002 I have to ask why this match doesn't get talked about in the same light as the other tag team match to take place that night, because after watching them both twice, I'm convinced this is the better match. It doesn't go as long, but they make better use of the time they have and they actually work it the way a tag match is supposed to be worked, with Jericho and Christian doing everything right to turn the crowd against them and beg off from the babyfaces. It also has far more heat between the "Jericho sucks!" and "Booker T!" chants. Jericho is the total ring general here. He teases a confrontation with Booker T for the duration of the match, only to chicken out anytime Booker is going to face him on a level playing field, playing off of Jericho sneak attacking him on TV building to this match. He also saves the match when the ropes collapse by keeping his cool and still salvaging the finish, getting a really good moonsault off the top rope for the final pin after doing a facebuster on Goldust on the championship belt. Christian is very good as well, sneaking in at the beginning to create an opening, and unlike most WWE tags of the past few years, he and Jericho actually cut the ring in half and wrestle this like they're the Midnight Express or something. They don't have the double team moves, which is the one advantage the Edge/Rey babyface team has over anyone in this match, but they do drop toeholds and distract the ref so they can cheat behind his back. Vitamin C really gelled well as a team, and I wish that could have gone longer. Both of teams really should have been on Smackdown to add to the booming tag division. Goldust is great as the face in peril, and pulls off a great powerslam, which is as deep as any Ricky Steamboat armdrag. He also finally connects with the Shattered Dreams on Christian, which rarely happened in this time period at all. Booker T is very motivated to put on a good showing, getting the hot tag and busting out all the offense, and when he finally gets his hands on Jericho, it gets great heat because it was teased so well. Jericho knows how to sell the scissors kick properly because he doesn't just squat down and wait -- he struggles to get to his feet, and the move looks much more natural as a result. He also pulls off a really great spinebuster, which the crowd is convinced is the end of the match, even though it isn't, and his baseball slide looks awesome. They do a nice job of giving the babyfaces the moral victory by having Goldust, who was still considered the weak link of his team, pin Jericho, who was easily the big star on his team, only for the ref not to be there to make the cover. When the ref finally comes around, Christian is there to put Jericho's foot on the bottom rope in the knick of time, much to the chagrin of the crowd. They work to the finish, which sees Jericho go for a lionsault and sees the rope break. The match could have fallen apart here, but they worked a few additional sequences while Jericho and Dustin improvised in the ring and Booker and Christian brawled into the crowd to get them more excited. One moonsault later and the heels squeak by with the victory. Give this 24 minutes and it would have completely outshined the other tag match later that night. ***

That's the one. Thanks for posting it.

Longevity is a definite factor when it's a positive. 17 years of good-great matches almost the entire time (factoring out the four-year break), working the undercard, main events, singles matches, tag matches and gimmick matches is a major accomplishment and shouldn't just be written off because Rock was a draw for three years.

Do you think the following guys are capable of carrying the ball on top for an extended period of time? I don't mean a short run with the belt, I mean a long run where they're the top star in the company. Do you think business would go up or down with these people in that position if it happened, let's say, on the next PPV? Rey Misterio Christian Edge Shelton Benjamin Also, are there any one-time champs that you think have another good run in them that fans would respond properly to? Chris Benoit Chris Jericho Eddy Guerrero Kane Big Show Do you think the product would get better or worse, both in quality and in terms of box office, if they put both belts on Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle tomorrow? Just a variety of things to discuss.

Cornette runs OVW, so technically, I don't think they could force this on him, but he probably knows that politically, it's in his best interests to go along to get along, because it's a lot easier to survive with the corporate giant feeding you talent and working with you than pulling out and working against you.

Are you comparing Billy Gunn to Shawn Michaels? Come ON. Longevity does count for a lot when you come in and you're good and 17 years later, you're still going and you're good.

Yes, we can't have promoters yelling at developmental guys for doing stupid things on camera, but it's okay if Randy Orton takes a dump in Amy Weber's bag and gets the company tons of bad publicity. Give me a break. I'm sure Keller will chime in now with something that's sensationalized, and he'll probably also try to use this to make the case that WWE has the power to shut down OVW again.

I agree. And even if you take the title out of the picture, Eddy, since returning in 2002, has been in pretty much top form, and has contributed as a face, a heel and in virtually every position on the card. He has been the glue holding Smackdown together for most of the past year, and he's faced every challenge put in front of him. With HHH, the good is there, but the bad so far outweighs it.

I voted Rock too, so I'm not disagreeing, but this is not the squash it's being made out to be. Shawn wins on match quality. Shawn wins on longevity. Shawn has shown an ability to adapt, and has popularized at least two gimmick matches that are still commonly used in the company today. If you look at MOTY for every year in the company, I'd probably say that Shawn is in over half of them. 1989 -- Hogan/Savage is the only thing that touches the Rockers/'Busters series, and I still give the nod to that feud. 1990 -- Harts/Rockers from SNME is my MOTY for the company 1991 -- #2 MOTY for the company in the Rockers/OX match at the Rumble 1993 -- MOTY against Marty Jannetty on 07/19 1994 -- Involved in two of the top five matches of the year (WM X ladder match and Action Zone tag) 1995 -- MOTY against Razor at Summerslam '95 1996 -- If you did the top 10 matches of the year for the company, he'd probably be in all but one of them (Austin/Bret -- Survivor Series '96) 1997 -- HIAC I is probably the #2 MOTY for 1997 *break* 2002 -- This year doesn't do him any favors. 2003 -- MOTY for company against Chris Jericho at WM XIX 2004 -- This year doesn't do him any favors either, at least in my eyes. 2005 -- MOTY for company against Kurt Angle at WM XXI. He was the first guy in company history to hold every single championship. He's been with them since *1988*. There are a lot of downsides to him as well, specifically his professionalism, his long breaks and the fact that business wasn't so hot when he was on top, but this is still pretty close.

It actually is. What I'm wanting to know is what counts for more -- great matches or money drawn? A longer run having excellent matches in singles, tags and main events or a shorter run having strong main events? Did charisma play into this? Did interview skill? Did you vote on impact, or do you some of you prefer Rock in the ring to Michaels? I'm surprised at anyone who wouldn't think it's close, given the accomplishments of both in the company.

Can we get some more talking points on this one, from both sides? This is one of those that's so close that it should be fun to discuss. Bring it, peoples!

Yeah, I know for sure I couldn't touch the best review of it. It's one of those matches I can only watch rarely because it's just too freakin' much. It's like how I've heard some people say they're afraid to watch 6/9/95 a second time because they're scared it won't be as good.