Loss

I will probably peacefully accept Kurt wherever he lands, unless it's above someone like Bobby Eaton, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham or Ricky Morton. Then I will whine.

Finishing up with Owen and working with Hakushi motivated him. Working with Lawler and Yankem didn't. Regaining the title did.

I do agree on that point, if only because circumstantial evidence about his hard style doesn't make it seem farfetched. But I question the Alzheimer's point for that same reason -- circumstantial evidence about how he made it to buildings and remembered match plans make it seem farfetched.

Do you really think so ? I mean, Tito is a WWF guy. It's not like all the major Tito stuff wasn't available for ever. Yes. Who was talking about the Valentine series in 2006? Or the Savage series? Smarkschoice did their poll on WWF matches, and jdw did his tOA series walking through 80s WWF matches. Both contributed to Tito's higher profile.

Interesting and possibly daring statement about Rude -- if you throw out the Kandori match (which you can't I realize, and that's why Hokuto did so much better than Rude on my list) I don't think the whole of Rude's 1992 has that much of a gap with Hokuto's 1993.

Tito Santana with a big jump, which is another credit to the deep dive on footage in recent years.

I wouldn't say Bret was propped up by the WWF machine at all. But I will say that I think he had his big run in the right place, even if he was far better than almost everyone he worked with. Bret's best matches tended to be cinematic, and the announcers, production and wrestlers are usually completely on the same page in the best ones. There's no way he could have had the Diesel match at Survivor Series '95 in WCW, for example, simply because I don't know that WCW wouldn't have changed leadership too often to give that one the nearly two-year build it had, plus coordinating an announce table spot in WCW without the left hand and right hand being clued in would be a nightmare. Bret had big visions, and at the very least, the WWF had the infrastructure to support that. I think had Bret gone to WCW earlier, sadly, he might have ended up as a permanent early 90s Brian Pillman. Him actually going to WCW in 1998 bears that out. Mind you, I don't mean that as a critique of Bret. I just don't think his approach to wrestling would have been a good fit in WCW. Could he have adapted? Possibly, yes. But some guys are able to block out the noise and put everything into their match, and those are the guys that delivered in WCW. For better or worse, that's just not Bret. He doesn't need booking to be good, but he needs booking to be motivated, and he needs motivation to be good.

Fair enough. I took "I don't want to be part of a club that would have me as a member anyway" as "I hate it here and want no part of this", but if that's not what you meant, great.

Then why are you here? I don't mean that to be a dig. I'm just asking -- why are you here?

Definitely a really good match. Pretty favorable reviews in the MDA as well, but for some reason not one that's often brought up on Hogan's greatest hits list. I think the reason is if you're trying to sell someone on Hogan, you'd probably not point them to his time as the top babyface in a company where he had such transparently astroturf support from fans. No matter how good the matches are, the act of Hulk Hogan never felt more insincere than it did in 1993 WWF and 1994-1995 WCW.

I spent twenty three years working with Alzheimer's victims and none of them ever went on a murder spree. Not to mention that keeping the travel schedule of a pro wrestler would be virtually impossible.

Re: the brain test, his brain had already started decomposing when they did the test because of the heat, which made me question the results of the test.

Credit the ECW project for that one, I think.

GOTNW has a point. Without UWF 2.0 forcing the other companies to raise their game, 90s wrestling in Japan would have been something very different. I don't know how the pillars navigate feuds full of countouts and DQs.

Hey, I saw Angle do fake MMA in a cage with Samoa Joe in TNA once. And I am not a fan of real MMA, but I quite enjoy fake MMA. I look forward to revisiting him at some point. I wonder if the pendulum has gone too far in the other direction. Why can't anyone see him as a good wrestler who never quite became great because of his penchant for excess? He's either an all-time great or a waste of space.

2026ers, be nice to each other.

If you're reading this in 2026, it's probably too late to uphold the once-a-decade tradition, but I think doing siloed lists to build up to GWE is a better overall path. Separate by era, promotion, style -- whatever, but concentrate on a subset of wrestlers, then another subset, then another subset. Then GWE acts as the culmination of a decade of mini-projects, the comparisons across whatever lines have been drawn begin, and guys aren't as likely to fall through the cracks because they've been vetted so much beforehand. While you'd still have nominations and pimping, the comparisons will probably be more dominant at that point. Figure out the "lanes", then figure out how much time until GWE, and divide the remaining time evenly among the various lanes. Oh, and don't get caught in debates about objectivity and subjectivity. They go in circles, all in the name of presenting the radical idea that opinions aren't facts. Everyone knows that, no reason to discuss it.

Flair vs Windham smokes any Garvin stuff. Hell, I'd put Windham at his peak above Flair. We know that. Like most things you've posted in this thread, you've been saying it for nearly 15 years.

Flair-Garvin appeals to the violencemongers among us who love stiffness, but I think it also appeals to people who want to see a different side of Flair as someone driven by emotions who is willing to fight. You don't see heel Flair lose his cool opposite anyone but Garvin.

Had Garvin never won the World Title, the line on him as one of Flair's most fun opponents would have never gone sour at all. Flair-Garvin was a hugely popular feud among hardcore fans at the time. When Garvin won the title, which coincided with a major decline for JCP, he became an easy scapegoat, and the feud started being viewed a little differently in hindsight. I don't know that people were ever significantly down on it, but I do think Flair-Windham was considered the much better in-ring feud until recent years, when I don't think nearly as many people around here think that now.

I mean guys setting up folding tables or spending what seems like an eternity taking a turnbuckle pad off or having to go under the ring and look for stuff or long superplex battles on the top rope.

Flair-Bret thread, part 438. This stuff is completely zapping the joy of this board for me.

What advice do you have for whatever crop of people may decide to do the next GWE poll in 2026? Lessons learned, things that have worked, things that haven't and so on. Write a note to the next generation.

Ron Garvin was the first guy to drop off my personal ballot back in the 2006 countdown. Another case of a guy who has really benefited from increased exposure.

If that's the plan, it's an infinitely fresher version of The Authority than Big Show and Kane.