Loss

If it's meant for Classics to see it, then it should be: 145. Lou Thez 144. Lex Luger I hope that joke isn't too obscure.

And above The Guy Who We Only Think We Know at that!

Inoki getting a #1 vote is not really any stranger than Hogan getting one, and I expect Hogan to get more than one.

WILL SOMEONE FUCKING JOIN ME IN REACTING TO LEX LUGER PLACING ONE SPOT ABOVE LOU THESZ, AND SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT HHH UNTIL HE SHOWS UP? THIS IS FUNNIER THAN SCOTT STEINER GETTING A NUMBER ONE VOTE, YOU IDIOTS.

145. Lou Thesz 144. Lex Luger This is way funnier than Scott Steiner getting a number one vote. It's amazing.

It's boring as shit when people make these kind of posts that defend one sentence posts that shit on a wrestler instead of encouraging further critical evaluation, even if it is just a way of paraphrasing why someone finds a wrestler boring as shit. It's a message board for crying out loud. Discussion is the whole point of it. And let's not pretend this would be the general (maybe it would still be yours) tone if we were discussing a worker the PWO hivemind (which the results have amusingly enough transcended so far) deemed great.Johnny thinks the WWE haven't put a foot wrong since the Montreal screw job.That's not even remotely true, dum dum. last thumbs down or in the middle WWE show?I don't remember. There was one this past year I didn't like all that much. I just try and focus on what I like about a show and not what I didn't like. And since every month I watch the shows surrounded by pals drinking and eating and laughing, then yes "I always have a blast." Wrestling is meant to be watched sober, alone and in darkness. Only your computer screen may bring you light.

In this context, I didn't get worked up over it at all. There's a history with the term at the board, but I understand your point, which seems to be that if someone finds someone boring, rather than just saying "that's boring", saying something like "Inoki can really sit in a hold too long without creating any struggle" is a far more useful statement that actually gives others a way to respond. I don't disagree with that. I know in these types of debates I usually fall on the other side, but I'm with you on this one.

Hayes was also the best worker of Wrestlemania weekend.

Hayes had that sweet left hand.

Steinerized!

Dave doesn't pull stuff from his ass to stir the pot. Get out of here with that.

Stephanie's Creative team turned Wrestlemania into an annual dome show that seems to break some type of record every year.

If it makes anyone feel better, official WWE history has sort of erased his entire singles run. Now he's just a guy who was in a tag team with Christian.

I'm not at all disappointed in Yoshida's rating. Sure, I think she should be higher, but considering the current landscape, it's a very good rating.

That picture is about as silly as Kazuo Yamazaki gets.

Yoshida making the top 200 considering that her most acclaimed stuff happened after people stopped paying so much attention and that Joshi is out of style among most voters is a pretty great accomplishment. I'm proud of that ranking for her.

I remember when the great false finishes were not about what was kicked out of, but rather the timing of them -- he kicked out of a finisher vs he got out of that one at the last millisecond.

18. 17. I don't see anyone breaking what seem like ties on stuff like that. Kobashi probably has had 300 ***+ matches that have made tape in his career. Bret has probably had 50. That type of gap hardly requires a calculator.

My purpose in mentioning that was to point out first that we aren't far apart and second, that this idea that some of us are taking a calculator and ranking the guy with 18 great matches over the guy with 17 great matches is not a practice in which I see anyone at all engaging.

There is no in-ring talking or playing to the hard camera in the best All Japan matches. There are no mythmaking video packages set to pseudo-classical music that won't let the match speak for itself. The stuff in the opening minutes often matters. They don't do spots on announce tables. The execution and fundamentals are so much better. There is absolutely nothing in All Japan that I can even begin to compare to the nightmare that is HHH-Undertaker at Wrestlemania 28. In the end, most great matches build drama in a similar way, and "big" feeling matches across all genres are fairly similar, even if we can point to some differences. I don't see the WWE style as bloated at any point, really. It's just that they are too naked about their intentions to make history and entertain the fans, rather than win a title or kick someone's ass. I think that's what is meant by self-conscious -- the difference between a match where the manipulation is so controlled and obvious, and a match that feels like it escalates in an organic way. We all know WWE can't help but be heavy handed. As for the Kobashi-Shawn comparisons, Shawn with Kobashi's offense would make him an all-time elite worker, so that's not a point that bugs me too much. The biggest difference between the two is that Kobashi is likeable.

Wasn't Seth Rollins almost let go for making similar complaints?

I would never come right out and say that live viewing experiences should not factor into this, because I don't think that's for me to decide. But it is my opinion that they shouldn't. I always saw this as a project about recorded footage, where theoretically someone else can go seek out whatever you watched to make your ballot and then decide on it for themselves.

Is it possible Stevens was one of the first big bumping, fast moving guys, and that's what made him so adored, since no one else was doing that at the time? Based on the way people describe him, he always sounded like the inspiration for the faster-paced style of the next generation of guys (which of course later became even faster). I picture him more as the Shawn Michaels of his era based on descriptions since the exaggerated bumping and movement is usually described as his calling card.

Why do the voices in his head talk to Mae?

Marc Rocco looks like the love child of Henry Rollins and Simon Cowell in that picture.