Loss
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Everything posted by Loss
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A definite number one contender. I would have said for sure my number one pick in the past. Now, it's still likely, but hardly definite. Flair's best quality is getting opponents over in a way that they look far better than they really are. His flaws have been discussed ad nauseum, as have his strengths. I don't have a ton new to say and like Jumbo he is kind of a boring top pick, but the truth can be boring sometimes.
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Misawa is someone I'm considering for number one. He has probably had more recorded ****+ matches than any wrestler in history. He's absolutely my pick for Wrestler of the Decade for the 1990s. It's lonely at the top, which is why I've always wondered if that's why many people gravitated more to Kawada and Kobashi. They were chasing the top spot and Misawa was already there, and it's easy to invest in the guys climbing the ladder. Attempts to transition to a new ace show how difficult that role was, as they always ended up coming back to him.
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We're not going to find a more talented pro wrestler on this list than Kenta Kobashi. Great facial expressions and selling, and probably better heavyweight offense and execution than anyone ever. I could see myself putting Kobashi as high as number two, so I'm not down on him at all. If he's hurt by anything, it's that his matches sometimes felt too much like The Kobashi Show, where he was showing off how great he was as much as or more than giving a performance for the sake of the match. It's a hard thing to really describe in a way that makes sense, but I expect that people who have watched a lot of Kobashi will get that. There's nothing understated about the guy, but the constant theatrical approach can sometimes be a lot to bear. As much as people love the 6/9/95 tag, I do too, but Kobashi's performance was so over the top there that the match lost something for me. For that reason, it's never been a match I've been as gaga over as most people.
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I realize he's kind of a boring choice, but that doesn't mean he isn't the right choice on top of the ballot. What I'm interested in is comparing Jumbo as an ace to Misawa as an ace. Is Jumbo really that clearly better than Misawa? I don't know the answer and would like to hammer it out.
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Liger won't be my number one, but I could see him anywhere from number two to any other spot in the top ten. His rep is that of a great high flyer, and while Liger was a great flyer, that has nothing to do with why he was great. Liger was so demonstrative. I always thought it was cool when you felt like you could see a smirk or anger just by looking at his face even though the expression never changed at all because of the mask. He was also a fantastic ace. Guys like Otani and Kanemoto just weren't the same against anyone else for the most part, not to mention El Samurai and Norio Honaga. The only thing keeping him out of the top spot for me is that he wrestled within a pretty narrow experience - juniors matches against a core group of guys. We saw so many sides to him just within that division, and he does have occasional highlights outside of it like the WCW matches with Pillman or the Budokan Hall main event with Hashimoto. But he's not quite as "tested", for lack of a better word, as the other top tier guys. It's hard to think of any real flaws outside of that.
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Tenryu is definitely a wrestler where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. His execution is sometimes flat out horrible, but it almost doesn't matter at all. He usually wrestles like he's in the Tokyo Dome, even when he's working a smaller venue. He's in the Choshu-Hashimoto-Onita group of guys who are so great at projecting themselves as larger than life through body language and facial expressions. I still need to wade through most of his 80s resume outside of the super classics, but I know his rep there is that it took him some time to find his voice. Definite top tier pick for me.
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A definite contender for the best luchador in history. I wouldn't laugh at a ballot that had him number one overall either. To be fair though, I think people who complain about Flair formula should check out some Santo singles matches, because they're going to notice a lot of patterns in those. His best stuff is as good as just about anyone's in wrestling. Outstanding mat worker, to the point I'd even rank him ahead of guys for whom that's a supposed calling card like Blue Panther. When trios matches weren't really storyline-driven, I found that he often ended up falling into the background. He probably has a higher quantity of great matches than anyone in lucha libre (or most outside of it), but that number is also slightly misleading because he has the benefit of being in some fabulous trios matches where he mostly hugs the apron. I say all that and he'll probably end up my #1 overall among the Mexican candidates. He's neck and neck with Casas, so that could flip based on a compelling argument. There are guys like Dandy and Satanico who peaked much higher for short periods of time, but I'd probably put them below Santo because they weren't really consistently great.
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Eddy will probably do very well on my ballot. I'd say from 1996 on, he's a fantastic worker who really put the whole package together. People point to the 1997 heel turn, but even in 1996, he was an endearing babyface that was usually over with WCW crowds despite a total lack of push. I'm not a fan of most of his work in AAA or New Japan, although there are some bright spots for sure. I love his work in WWE main events, which is his biggest strength. He has a lot of technically good matches pre-1996 that lack personality.
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I don't feel like I have too much to add here, although I think people read too much into some of the criticisms I've thrown his way through the years. I absolutely think Bret was a great worker, but I think he was by and large a guy who stepped it up for big shows, but doesn't have the type of hidden gem matches you want from someone in the upper echelon of something like this. There are so many bland (inoffensive, but bland) matches taped exclusively for Coliseum Video or that happened on TV, often opposite very good workers where they could have done something good. It's easy to put all of that on the way WWF TV was put together at the time, but I think even guys like Michaels, 1-2-3 Kid and Owen Hart were better New Generation-era TV match workers. I'd probably have Bret comfortably above all of them, but it's a weakness of his that I think needs to be addressed.
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The Kandori matches are all-time classics. But I feel like most of her case is confined to one year. I've found her work technically good before she really got fully into the Dangerous Queen gimmick and changed her look, but she lacked charisma early on. She's a fascinating wrestler because of the sacrifices she has made for her craft, and she will for sure end up in my top 100. Her career has plenty of what-ifs, but I don't want to use this poll to right those wrongs. I like Hokuto, but I'm not even sure she's comfortably ahead of Toyota. Toyota has more annoying habits, but Toyota also has a larger body of work at a high level that spanned a longer period of time. And the difference between her peaks and Hokuto's peaks are negligible.
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Aja is the type that I think does better than she should in these types of things because she has an in-ring style that's more accessible for people who don't like Joshi. And there's plenty to like about her for sure - she was an excellent world champion taking on all comers for 2 1/2 years, which is really where the bulk of her case resides. Outside of that, her two-year chase of Bull produced some genuinely great matches and she had one-offs against wrestlers like Satomura, Kyoko Inoue and Yoshida after 1995 that I think were also excellent. I have no doubt she will make my top 100. But I'm not 100% sure she is in the first tier for Joshi. It's possible she is, but she has quite a few annoying habits, the most obvious of which are the crowdhugging brawls and excessive garbage can shots. I don't think Aja as #1 overall in the world of Joshi is a ridiculous idea, but I also hope people who like her on the surface will give some others a chance too. I'll come back with some recommendations.
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The departing Sandman is on the cover of this CD.
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Jericho gets in a quick get well wish for Brian Hildebrand. Jericho talks about how Goldberg got into wrestling way too easily and has been given way too much in too short of a time. He calls him green and challenges him to come out. Tony points out that they know the guy back there is not Goldberg, but Jericho demands that he be introduced. Goldberg doesn't show up so Jericho claims victory by countout and is counting this as his second win over Goldberg.
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Last few minutes. Rock is making a good showing. There's a ref bump, at which point Kane, who has been at ringside for this match, grabs a chair. He ends up hitting Undertaker with the chair, giving Rock the visual fall. Undertaker ends up giving Rock a tombstone on a chair to win. While Undertaker won, he really put Rock over here in a big way.
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Vince has a visitor. He was clear that he didn't want any visitors outside of his family, but Mankind has showed up! He brings him a box of chocolates and some female entertainment - Yirple the Clown! He also brought Mr. Socko, which unexpectedly got huge. Vince and Foley are both great here. Later in the show, Vince requests a different nurse and something for the pain. The doctor ends up being Steve Austin in disguise. In a classic moment, he hits him over the head with the bedpan. This is among the most memorable stuff of the era.
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Bret does his full entrance and takes off, so Sting follows him. They end up having a very good brawl in the backstage area that I'm going to call a match since it has the back-and-forth momentum swings and interesting sequences you want in a good match. This segment is great for setting up their match at Havoc as something deeply personal, but it didn't play out that way from memory. While I liked this, doing a main event entirely in the backstage area is the type of thing that will kill a town.
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Bischoff mentions Flair's name. He quickly tells the crowd not to boo Flair, because he needs all the support he can get. He does more redneck mocking, saying Flair sits at the Waffle House every week and complains about how bad Bischoff treats him. Arn reminds him that they are in Columbia, SC, a Horsemen town. Arn says Flair is here and Bischoff is surprised since he had banned him from the building. We don't get Ric, we get Reid Flair instead. He rolls out the Mean Gene line, which is cute. He's going to take on Eric, and says he was sent out to handle his dad's light work. He ends up tackling Bischoff to the ground a couple of times. Eric gets mad and goes after him, but Arn steps in front of him and points out that he just got taken down twice by a ten year old. This closes out with Reid giving Bischoff the four fingers. Crowd loved this. After the commercial break, Bischoff is still in the ring pissed off and wants Ric out there right now. Bischoff says he needs to stop driving around in a '63 pickup wishing he was Hulk Hogan and come to the ring. Eric is yelling at Beth Flair on the phone for some reason and Ric finally comes out. The NWO surrounds the ring right away, but they are cut off by the Horsemen. I feel like they are at a point where they need to advance the storyline somehow, but the crowd excitement over Flair's return is still enough to carry these segments at this point.
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Beefcake says he's done carrying Hogan's bags. I don't believe him. Hogan tries chasing him down but can't find him. Then Warrior appears in the mirror and Hogan sees him but Bischoff doesn't. Infamous segment.
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Scott Steiner is getting over his Big Poppa Pump catchphrases. Buff starts mocking Scott and Rick shows up with the esteemed JUDY BAGWELL! Judy starts yelling at her son, as they are in the same arena where Bagwell was originally injured. Crowd is very, very into this. He says that without Buff Bagwell, she wouldn't even eat and she slaps him! She tries to do the same for Scott and Rick ends up hitting him. I popped for Judy grabbing Buff out of the ring by the ear. This was fun once.
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Black and white NWO paid vignettes look passe by this point, not to mention that Scott gets NWO B-Team music in the background. Scott says they won the Crockett Cup, which is definitely not true.
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Warrior talks about Wrestlemania VI and their previous match. This is predictably lousy.
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The NWO red-and-black arrive and look to mean business. They make a beeline for the NWO locker room and start attacking everyone in sight. No Hogan in sight. Security shows up trying to separate everything. Scott Steiner feels the brunt of it. It's a little early for Bagwell to be involved in something like this, so everyone seems to be trying really hard to take care of him. Finally, Sting finds Bret Hart. Sting ends up getting into a forklift and destroy Hogan's limousine. Then Nash goes after it with a sledgehammer! Tenay gets a word with Nash to see what's going on. Nash said there's one of about five places Scott Hall can be in Columbia, so Nash, Konnan and Luger are going to find him! Sting is staying behind. Tenay dispatches a camera crew to follow the Wolfpac. They try a few spots where they don't find him at first but Nash finally finds Hall and they end up brawling in a bar on top of a pool table. The camera pans to Hall with his head through the wall. This was a great series of segments, but this is what the NWO vs NWO feud should have been all along. A for effort here, but it feels too little too late.
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[1998-10-05-BattlARTS-B Cup] Yuki Ishikawa vs Mitsuhiro Matsunaga
Loss replied to Loss's topic in October 1998
This is like an Abdullah the Butcher match happening in BattlARTS with Matsunaga hiding a pencil from the referee and stabbing Ishikawa with it every chance he gets. I didn't really care for this at all, mainly because this was very not BattlARTS. Maybe it would be fine as a random AJ undercard match from the late 70s or early 80s. Ishikawa showed great passion with the KO finish, but there's a time and place for everything, and I don't really want this in my BattlARTS. -
Fancam footage of the Dudleys at the Cobb County Civic Center. I can't really make out what they're saying. They insult various people in the crowd and end up pelted with garbage. Joel Gertner just casually walks away during all of this, but ends up coming back. Quite the scene, but this goes long with difficult-to-hear audio.
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[1998-10-04-WWF-Sunday Night Heat] Interview: Vince McMahon
Loss replied to Loss's topic in October 1998
Vince is interviewed in the hospital. Vince will never forgive Undertaker and Kane for what they did, but in the end, all of this was Steve Austin's fault. He says every bit of this is worth it if Austin has to suffer the indignity of counting the fall to make one of them champion.