Kostka

Hardys vs MNM from the 2007 Royal Rumble is better than any Hart Foundation or Demolition match I've seen. It was worked very much like a southern style tag match, too. MNMs entire run gets slept on and the Hardys reunion tour in 06-07 easily is comparable to any 80s WWF tag teams run. I could come up with ten Demolition matches better than the best Hardyz or MnM match. MNM vs the Hardys from the Rumble is one of the best tag bouts in WWE history. Demolition had plenty of good matches, but I don't think they ever hit that level. Even if you want to talk non-Hardy MNM matches, they have the greatly underrated series against Haas/Holly that Dylan mentioned, the Guerrero/Mysterio series (i saw a house show tag between these teams that went 20 + that would be discussed very favorably had someone fancammed it), the Batista/Mysterio series with the first (I think) tv match being legit great and my second favorite WWE tag match of the decade, the London/Kendrick matches, etc.

I don't feel like looking for it, but someone asked Punk to bring tassles back to wrestling, and he replied with a pic of himself sitting in the lockerroom with tassels on his boots.

Hardys vs MNM from the 2007 Royal Rumble is better than any Hart Foundation or Demolition match I've seen. It was worked very much like a southern style tag match, too. MNMs entire run gets slept on and the Hardys reunion tour in 06-07 easily is comparable to any 80s WWF tag teams run.

Don't sell/don't take bumps is an oversimplification of what working the "big man" role is. On the front it is that, but there's a huge difference between no selling and big man selling. Khali no sells because hes not talented enough to do anything else. Guys like Vader and Andre understand how to logically and progressively get worn down within a match in a way that both protects them and makes the opponent shine. Tom K wrote up a brilliant run down on what working as a big man entails.

But neither situation happened, so it's irrelevant.

Yeah, what the RNRs did for business in the context of their time period at the top as a main event act/variety of hot money drawing feuds/programs and heated match-ups vs the undercard throw away Hart Foundation in the WWF, the "overall" talking point doesn't fair too well for the Harts AT all.

For me, a great match is a great story. Nothing beats the simplicity of wrestling when done well.

I love Taker, but even into the late 90s/early 2000s when he started having more leeway in his gimmick and having better matches, I consider him a pretty second tier guy. He might make the back end of a top 10 but that's being generous.

Cenas stuff has just been so overbooked, but when he gets a chance he still has the matches. I liked his series with Punk earlier in the year and he had a really good match with Dolph Ziggler on Raw a little while back. Cena-Miz Raw WM rematch was a good match in the midst of things.

Cena has to be up there too. He's been a huge star for them obviously and has been a particularly huge monster merchandise machine, plus is generally a good worker, and has that title run from 06-07 that is among the best in company history.

Completely agreed 100% on all of that shit and would like to point out that it's the exact reason why I'm such a big fan of workers like Evan Bourne. He's a guy who's very "fundamentally" sound in terms of how he sells and constructs his matches but at the same time, is very offensively creative and dynamic.

Great show guys. You got me up to speed on the whole Sinclair/ROH situation with some interesting perspective and I really enjoyed the Savage pimping. Question for Dylan... If Savage is #1 and Austin is #2 in terms of WWF/E guys, where would you rank Eddie Guerrero? Obviously he was never the star Austin, Cena or Savage was, but his feud with Rey Mysterio in 2005 did big numbers and I'd argue he was as multi-versatile as Savage. I guess his run as champion wasn't the best as far a television ratings go (or am I misrembering?) but he was really incredible in that role, and his character development, which peaked in 05, was really impressive as was his promos. His death came at his overall career peak IMO if you factor in the promos, character, ring psych etc.... And that's only a small portion of a great career.

Is this on itunes/will you be putting it on itunes?

I guess Magnum TA doesn't count since it wasn't a decline in push. MVP went from a dude who I thought should've gotten the World title instead of Khali when Batista went down with an injury in 07, to going on an endless losing streak that saw a nose dive not only in terms of push but also a serious decline in his in-ring talent that he never was able to recover from.

Yeah I remember he did a pretty good job as the handicap in that match while Terry was knocked out, but if the roles were reversed and Dory was out, it's a given that that section of the match would've been way better IMO,and probably would've finished higher on my ballot (I have it pretty high anyway).

I'm not saying he was a big piece of shit. I was shocked by how much I enjoyed Dory vs Brody as neither are guys I like. Dory shows fire sometimes by association with Terry. Still though, he's a major no factor in most of those early 80s tags, esp the high end ones like the Funks vs Gordy/Hansen. He had a front row seat to the Terry Funk show. Sorry for taking your thread a bit off course, Dylan.

I agree with you Dylan on most stuff, but I'm sure you didn't mean imply that Gordy and Roberts were as much a non factor in Freebird tags as Dory was in Funk brother tags... Dory was the real Robert Gibson. Everyone talks about how great Rick Morton was and kind of write off Gibson as a turnbuckle decoration for the Morton show, but a lot of my favorite RNR tags feature extensive Gibson FIP segments where he's actively a great worker throughout (like the DWBs tag from Mid South, for example) Dory is the epitome of a dude who, in that role, was ok for hot tags and not much else. Consistently the least guy in all their matches while Gibson a lot of times felt on par with Morton. I'm rambling but yeah, while i agree Hayes was great in a ton of situations, Gordy and Roberts were great workers in all of those matches, too. Unlike Dory

Cody finally understanding what it feels like to be a "freak" like his brother is a great angle to set up a Dr Doom Cody Rhodes/Goldust team. I really liked it when a few years back they had Cryme Tyme as Cena buddies, usually taking on Ted Jr, Cody and JBL or Jericho. Those were some quality six man tags that ran the house show loop and a couple of TVs that people forget about that were quite good. With all the PG-13 talk lately, how awesome woulda babyface Cena/PG-13 combo have been?

1. lol2. lol 3. Not sure, haven't seen enough of them but I'm doubtful. 4. Workrate = no. Overall, maybe. 5. Nope. 6. Haven't seen enough of them to properly comment on. 7. They were awesome in OVW where technical wrestling was appreciated but the WWF dropped the ball almost entirely with the team. 8. Yeah... 9. Nope. Not even close, man. 10. They had two excellent hardcore brawls with Cactus Jack outside of that, I am drawing a blank as to where their real significance lays. Sure, they had longevity as a team, had foreign tours, were in a movie, but outside of that, I wouldn't personally rank them above PG-13. I'm enjoying your write-ups Dylan, and I will provide more commentary later on today/tonight/tomorrow morning I did state that those were teams off the top of my head that I thought PG-13 were better than @Dylan Waco, who was confused over it being a troll post...Those are ten teams in my opinion whose overall work rate and credibility as a tag team is less than that of PG-13 I don't consider Demolition that much of a big draw, they were the hottest tag team in the WWF at one point, however they declined due to the additions of teams like The British Bulldog's, The Hart Foundation and, of course The Legion Of Doom. As for the Nasty Boy's, barring their Florida Championship work in the late 80's..they quickly became stale and failed to make that much of an impression in either WWF or WCW. In fact, most people know Brian Knobb's for his 'Pit-Stop' gimmick in the late 1990's, wrestling hardcore matches against 3 Count in WCW Your criteria is a lot different than mine. You seem to be putting emphasis on how over/famous teams were where I couldn't give a shit about that for the purposes of this discussion. Also most people don't know Brian Knobbs at all. So what is the purpose of your discussion? First of all you derailed my thread and then claimed that PG-13 are in the top 10 greatest tag teams...When stating that, you have to consider all elements including wrestling ability, athletic prowess, marketability and of course how over a team is. If its workrate you are looking at, then you should have specified that clearly in your post. PG-13 definitely aren't an "Angle".

The list of teams that are better isn't very long. I'd say they're the best US tag team of the 90s.

Typically you leave a feud with the babyface stronger/more over and the heel having more heat. Punk didn't even get to fuck Orton over and steal a win in any single one of their matches, it was just Orton beating him clean, over and over at every turn. So Punk didn't gain any heat from the program, and Orton didnt really have anything to overcome/get revenge for as he just kept beating a guy that didn't have any momentum left. Its not the end of the world for Punk but it was a feud that definitely did nothing for either guy moving forward.

What about Vader/Michaels? Kurt Angle coming into TNA and beating Samoa Joe was the beginning of the end for Joe.

LET ME TELL YA SOMETHIN!!! Phew! You sure told me somethin' there, Stranglah! intense! Were definitely looking at the future of da biz right before ours eyes right here on PWO.

When are you guys doing an all Savage episode?

Owen/Jarrett would've been an awesome team in USWA or SMW. Would think Owen/Jarrett vs PG13 would've been really great.