cm funk

JBL won the title in May, the Germany incident was in June. It certainly didn't have a negative impact on his push, and may have resulted in it lasting as long as it did. I seem to recall them bringing his CNBC firing into his character, something like "they fired me because they said I'm too controversial, but I'm just a real American who speaks the truth" without mentioning the real reason

That was a different time, before the tragedies, PG, Linda McMahon: Politician, and the explosion of social media. JBL never would have gotten away with that today.

I thought the best part of his WWF run was post-WM14 where he went back to the Scorpio name, was briefly tagging with Terry Funk, then was part of the J.O.B. Squad. He seemed to be getting over and the J.O.B. Squad gimmick had potential IMO, but they never really went anywhere with it.

Heyman back in the mix is great, and he'll bring a whole new element/slant to the angle with Hunter. You know at some point he's going to rip into HHH and Stephanie being the heirs to the McMahon throne. They better figure out how to get Tensai over before they pencil that one in. He's beat Cena and Punk now and aligned himself with the big heel authority figure, and there hasn't been a single crowd that seems to give a shit about him yet.

When WCW was promoting the AAA "When World's Collide" PPV they were threatened with a lawsuit by ECW, who owned a trademark on that title. They negotiated the use of some WCW talent as a settlement, first asking for Flair who refused to do it, then agreeing on Steve Austin, then Austin had his knee injury so Brian Pillman did the spot, coming in as a mystery partner for Shane Douglas, along with Sherri Martel managing them. Sherri did an angle where she turned on Douglas during the match on behalf of Flair (who she'd been managing in WCW)

I guess I'm in the minority but I've enjoyed the Jericho/Punk stuff. I thought the sobriety test angle was great. Probably helps that they're two of my favorite wrestlers and I enjoy most of everything they do. Jericho is a dick and a hypocrite, he's honed in on a potential weakness in his opponent to get in his head. That's what heels do, it's not exactly complicated stuff. Johnny Ace has been fucking with Punk for like 9 months now, do we need to ask why he's interjecting himself too? And seriously, if Punk can't act and Jericho can't cut serious promos, who can? Jericho's great run in 08-09 where he won back to back Wrestler of the Year awards in the observer was based on him being serious.

Perhaps, but I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the direction they appear to be going in. If Cena is so broken from the match that he's off TV for months while Brock is beating everybody, that's all people are going to remember. Also, and I'm not sure if WWE would do this, you can have Cena come back, lose to Brock, and The Undertaker becomes the last hope of stopping him.

The majority of people thought he was going to win at WM. He lost. The majority of people thought he was going to lose to Brock. He won. Did anyone think he would lose to LORD TENSAI on tv?! The way he's been booked lately has been the opposite of predictable.

Agreed 100%

I think they're trying to tell a very simple story here Cena is the franchise, the face of WWE, the guy who lives and breathes and bleeds the blood of the company. He loses to The Rock, he doesn't get his "passing of the torch" moment, but he lives to fight another day. Now he's thrust into the role of defending the company against the invading outsider, the man who's come to rape and pillage the company and doesn't care about anything but himself. WM was hyped up as the match that Cena "can't lose," that he needs to win for personal validation, this is the match that Cena has to win not just for himself but for the company. Cena wins the battle with Brock, but it's a Pyrrhic victory. The match leaves him broken and battered, forces him out of the ring. What's a 3 count mean if you get the shit kicked out of you and end up on the shelf? Cena is losing the war. In the meantime, without Cena around to keep him in check, Lesnar goes on a path of destruction. He injures and maims people. He beats Orton. He takes Punk's title. The question is posited, "who can possibly stop Brock Lesnar?" John Cena. After Brock has destroyed everyone, John Cena will ride to the rescue. If it plays out like that I think it's good, basic storytelling. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, which usually ends up with me looking stupid, but right now I don't disagree with Cena winning the match. Brock is going to be a regular character for the next year and they're doing variations on Cena's superhero booking to try and keep his character fresh, I think it's interesting. I'm guessing that when Brock signed is when they decided to have Cena lose at WM and go in this direction.

No, they were mentioned as the cause of death. Heart failure due to prolonged use of steroids and other drugs. His problems with substance abuse contributed to the stress on his heart, but they didn't cause it to be grossly enlarged. Steroids were in his blood, he had an enlarged heart, they put 2 and 2 together. He was obviously a steroid abuser, that's not complicated math. The cause of his death was not steroids just because that's what was written down on the autopsy. The guy was abusing his body for years in a multitude of ways. Steroids did not kill Eddie Guerrero. The original question raised in this thread was whether or not steroids should/should not be illegal, and can they be used safely. Eddie Guerrero is an extreme case to raise.

It mentioned steroids because it was in his bloodsystem when he died They could have mentioned the ham sandwich he ate that night after they dissected his stomach Did it also mention the 15 years of abusing alcohol and painkillers? Of course steroids were a factor in his death, but that doesn't make it an indictment. Steroids can be used responsibly, same as anything. Eddie was not responsible in his life.

Between his injuries, steroid use, painkiller use and history Rey is in the highest risk bracket, and the WWE office knows it It's BS to pop him when he shows up backstage to watch a show, when other guys are allowed to go on TV every week while clearly juicing themselves to the gills with one substance or another, but it is what it is. Rey is rich/smart enough to get the designer shit that can't be detected anyway, and he basically lives in the hub of the drug trade, he should have known better. He works for WWE, he should have known better. Rey should probably just be retired at this point, but we all know that isn't going to happen

Eddie should not be exhibit A for the risks of HGH or steroid use, lol The guy was an alcoholic who abused drugs for more than a decade, had a few near death experiences in the process, and when he got "clean" he was still loaded up on muscle relaxers and painkillers, as well as still using steroids/HGH There were multiple stress factors on his body that contributed to his death. To say, "he did HGH and steroids therefore his heart exploded" is just dumb Knowing what we know now about him, it's amazing he lived as long as he did. His "rebirth" tacked a few extra years onto his life, but the damage to his body had already been done Eddie Guerrero would seriously be the one of the last names I'd talk about when discussing proper use/risk of HGH or steroids, too many variables to make his case relevant

What other justification is there to make them illegal? The legality is tied to the perceived personal and public health risk.

Thanks for the heads up on that And yeah, Dave doesn't really maximize his growth potential as far as new media goes. I think it's partly that Alvarez runs kind of a fly-by-night semi-pro operation and Meltz has put a lot of stuff in his hands, partly that he's just from a generation removed and has an old school print mentality, and partly that he's got a family and a kid and is comfortable with the way he does things. He needs Alvarez or somebody else in his ear to push him to new levels, and Alvarez, eh, he's not looking to go that big

I really don't understand all the criticism of this segment. Did it go on too long? Yea, but that's like...every talking segment the WWE does. He should be talking calmly. Why would he yell? He played it calm because that's how he's supposed to. He's not afraid of Cena. He's completely confident that he's not only going to beat Cena, but pretty much destroy him. It wasn't the playing it calm, it was that they left him and Johnny Ace out there to carry like 8 minutes of talking when neither of them is that good at it. Ace's wooden delivery only works when he's got somebody dynamic like Punk playing off of him, otherwise he's just comedic. And you could see the switch in Brock back and forth between him hitting the scripted points and saying shit he actually believed in. It was awkward. I didn't hate it, I just think it was a huge let down after 3 weeks of really good buildup and a bad call by the creative team.

So, how bad did they drop the ball with that contract signing angle last night? I thought everything up til last night's show had been well done, as well as it could be done with a 4 week build to what should have been a huge long built money match, but man, that segment really fell flat. Brock wasn't bad and I liked the idea of him playing himself and holding up Ace with demands, but they didn't put him in a position to succeed by having him sitting in the ring talking calmly for 5 minutes, and I think it hurt his aura.

Yeah. Meltzer and Alvarez pointed out how stupid this was on one of their radio shows, and how simple it would have been to just have Punk get in Jericho's face and challenge him to a Chicago Street Fight, and Jericho says, "as long as the belt is on the line" which is what he wanted all along. It's incredible that they got 75% of the way there with the angle and then just announced the match with no real fanfare.

Shouldn't need to be said outright, except for the fact that WWE rarely does a good job focusing on those aspects of the game. In booking, writing, commentary, use of secondary titles, reasoning v. arbitrary title shots.....it's a pretty poor showing across the board when it comes to this simple, classical aspect of pro-wrestling, and I say that as a fan of modern WWE. It seems like simple concepts, but when the last decade of booking has been mostly soap opera/comedy/gaga oriented....title/money is mostly a backdrop for the bullshit. Not all the time, but more often than not.

That isn't anything that's been expressed on television. If he wants the belt why hasn't he targeted or called out CM Punk?

They need to play up that Ace brought him in and explain the Japan connection there. The gimmick also needs some tweaking. I like the idea, I like Sakamoto, I like the mist and claw, but some aspects of it just aren't clicking yet. The Umaga gimmick took a while to really start working and get over, so I'm hoping that's the case here too, because I think Bloom deserves to have a good run in the states.

There were worked finishes in Pride and speculation about some of the pre-zuffa era UFC shows. There's been fixes and dives in boxing as long as it's existed. Is UFC in the business of fixing fights? Doubtful, but not entirely out of the question. Have fighters "taken a dive" in present day UFC? I'd be more surprised if it hasn't happened. Jingus is right, anything that can be gambled on is open to being "worked". Cheating is always the name of the game when it comes to money.

RE: Finishers, it's kind of case by case, but it's almost always better when a guy has multiple finishers, or at least a pinning move and a submission. I like that WWE seems to make a point of having top guys who have multiple over finishing moves. Cena has the FU, the STF, the 5 Knuckle Shuffle (which just like the People's Elbow shouldn't be a finishing move, but it's over....) and on special occasions he busts out the atomic guillotine legdrop or Super FU. Undertaker has the Tombstone, chokeslam and Hell's Gate. Jericho has the Codebreaker, Walls of Jericho, Lionsault and Flashback. Most of the best guys change things up and introduce new moves into their arsenal. RE: Tag formula, I've always been a fan of matches that take the FIP trope and put different spins on it. I like matches with multiple heat segments/hot tags, hot tag teases and cutoffs, babyfaces getting off to a hot start leading to delayed heat etc. etc. Standard FIP->hot tag->pinfall can be really good if done well, but more often than not it's boring to me after seeing it played out note by note for years

Interesting booking on RAW tonight with Lord Tensai going over Cena. I don't think the Lesnar match really needs the intrigue of Johnny Ace and Otunga interference. Yeah, it took 4 guys to beat Cena, but Brock's character isn't someone who should need outside help, and that's what it planted seeds of. I think Lesnar has to win at Extreme Rules, it's strange to see Cena doing so many jobs