cm funk

Bryan plugged one of his mmafighting.com columns on a recent show, and Dave didn't sound thrilled regarding the comments on the article It seems to be Ariel Helwani's site or at least with Helwani as the lead man, so I'm sure that played into Dave deciding to write there

Didn't Vince lose a lot of money promoting Evel Knievel's Snake River jump on closed circuit in the mid 70's, and the Ali/Inoki debacle? As well as some other, smaller promotional failings such as boxing or arena investment? He promoted one or both of those events with Bob Arum's Top Rank, which is listed as a creditor for $4,600 or so The failed investment in construction and cement that Vince cites in the Playboy article also adds up, as a good deal of the creditors are related to that, such as Conn. state pension plans, insurance, etc. that he stopped paying into A lot of the creditors claim small amounts indicating they were recent bills Vince was unable to pay as he was in the red, such as a what looks to be a chartered flight with a small airline, a stay at a Marriot, etc. The large amounts owed to banks make perfect sense. Given McMahon's business connections and at one time real or presumed wealth, it's no surprise that multiple banks would allow him large lines of credit, either direct loans or credit cards issued through the banks I doubt Vince stopped paying federal taxes outright for 5 years, just used "creative accounting" to shield his wealth, and got caught. Explains why to this day he hates the IRS so much.

To put it another way, and working with the baseball analogy, if Don Mattingly died in 1990, he would have been a no questions asked Hall of Famer. He struggles to get 12% of the vote in 2012. To accurately judge you need perspective.

Exactly. I think it should be a 20 year limit before you consider a wrestler for a hall of fame. Shawn Michaels "retired" in 1998, then came back and put in another decade of work. Would he have been inducted into the WON HOF if he'd never come back? Quite possibly. But those post-retirement years accounted for just as much of his career and were as significant. A lot of people on this board would probably argue that his comeback sucked and downgrades his rating. With wrestling.....lots of guys retire and un-retire and work into their 50's etc. John Cena is a hall of famer however you slice it.....but only 10 years or so in the biz is too soon to be inducting someone into a hall of fame

pre-emptive "who am I to doubt El Dandy"

How is El Dandy a stronger candidate than Gran Hamada?

Cena is the only slam dunk candidate on the ballot, which is scary because he's very much in his prime and I don't think candidates like that should be entered into hall of fames. Would anybody have voted Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds into a HOF in 1997?

I've given up on ROH in the last few years, but Matt Hardy getting a main event push there at least fills me with morbid curiosity...

As soon as Vince Russo gets the pen...

Punk and Cena had a great match IMO, and JBL really brought an element to the commentary that has been lacking. Hope he sticks around

The Truth/Kofi v. Miz/Cesaro match on RAW was pretty much to a T exactly as described in this thread, note for note. So boring, so predictable....even Claudio who usually manages to be entertaining within the constraints of the WWE undercard style brought nothing interesting to the match It's definitely a company problem, but Truth/Kofi seem to be the worst offenders....I don't think they've had a single good match since they've been a team Kofi is possibly my least favorite wrestler in WWE. He does the same exact spots, same exact routine, in every. single. match. It's beyond boring and played out. I tune out either literally or figuratively when he's on screen. The only good match I remember him having this year was with Jericho, and only because Jericho forced him to work outside of the box. The only other times he's interesting is in MITB or scramble style matches, because he's good at highspot type stuff, but in regular matches he seems incapable of doing anything but the same spots and moves he's been doing for years. If he busted out any kind of suplex or submission hold it would blow my mind.

I don't think Shamrock was ever a top 5 guy in WWE. He had a few good runs, the feud with Rock most notably, but that was basically a stepping stone on Rock's path to the main event. He had a prominent role in the Corporation, but he was essentially a bit player while Austin, Vince, Vince's kids and Rock were the main focuses. He main evented 1 PPV, the one right after Survivor Series 97, only because they literally had nobody else to put in that spot at the time. They basically built the company around Brock in the summer of 02, and built SD around him from late 02 to early 04. And he was really f'n good in his role. It wasn't his fault that he came along at the time of the company's worst slump, and the peak of HHH's nepotism. I've argued the point before on this board, but HHH's god push on RAW directly hurt Brock and everyone else in WWE at the time, it was far worse than just him directly "burying" the talent he worked with. They lost their audience in droves, and it wasn't because Brock wasn't connecting with fans

I have no criticism at all of how WWE handled things, and seriously, all the credit in the world to everybody asked to perform after that, to Cole, and to everybody backstage who was juggling managing the show and caring for Lawler. Vince especially. People will jump to criticize Vince due to Over the Edge 99, Melanie Pillman and the Benoit Tribute show.....but honestly, there was absolutely nothing wrong with how they proceeded on Monday. The only other alternative, and I was thinking this while it happened, was to tell the audience what had happened, go to some old Bret Hart matches to fill the time, and to have USA let allot them "commercial" time after 11 if they needed to give any breaking updates. The idea of turning Lawler's life or death situation into a reality show is warped and sickening

My dad passed of a heart attack a few years ago, in his late 50's. He was a drinker, and had an unbalanced diet (good stuff like protein shakes, oatmeal and vitamins, bad stuff like candy bars and fast food...definitely didn't eat enough vegetables), was a workout fanatic when he was younger and still went to the gym 4-5 days a week in his 50's though he was more limited in what he could do as he got older (could still do more pushups than me though....he loved the story about Angelo Poffo doing something crazy like 1000 pushups)....but he was also of the old school mentality that he didn't like doctors and thought he could tough out whatever life delt him on his own. Unlike Jerry though, when he started having angina in the year leading up to the heart attack he actually did go to a doctor, who recommended he have a stent put in......but of course my stubborn old man said, "A stent? That's all? I don't need that!" and went about his business until the day he collapsed and died. That stent most likely would have prevented that. I guess my point is, none of us can beat the aging process without help and we shouldn't be stubborn to that cold hard truth. For every man who lives to be 90 on a diet of red meat and beer, there's a dozen just like him who don't, and just as many who live by most standards healthy lives and die before they reach old age. I'm only 30, but what happened to my father inspired me to try and live a little bit healthier, pay better attention to whatever signs my body is sending, and to start going for regular checkups after almost completely avoiding doctors during my 20's.

How is Brock a better candidate than Ken Shamrock? On one hand I'd say he was a far better performer as a pro-wrestler (and I liked Shamrock a lot in both Japan and WWE) Also, he was an NCAA Heavyweight champion, which used to mean a lot when it came to pro-wrestling, and still does to a lot of people That said, I'd probably put Shamrock in the Observer HOF too!

Gary Albright

I'm just listening to the late Monday/early Tuesday Observer Radio show now, and Dave made some interesting points regarding Lawler and his general health: - Noted that he doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs, which we all knew - Noted that he doesn't necessarily eat great, which we all pretty much knew or assumed - Noted that he has a family history of heart problems, that his father died of a heart attack when Jerry was in high school And by far the most interesting thing.... He said that Jerry never went to the doctor or got any sort of regular checkups....which frankly is astounding to me given his age and profession. Also, Michael Cole did an interview on Fox & Friends (FOXNEWS morning show for those outside of the States) today and said that Jerry went through all of the WWE medical testing and was completely cleared to be in the ring.......so something doesn't add up there. If Jerry really was subject to all the testing the rest of the roster goes through, surely they would have discovered a major blockage in one of his arteries, right? I've seen it mentioned that WWE could possibly come under fire for having someone his age in the ring, and I don't think anything would come of it and I don't think there's anything wrong with someone in their 50's or 60's still wrestling necessarily.....but it is something to think about Also, it's neither here nor there, and Dave didn't mention it, but I've heard for years that Lawler doesn't work out at all. Doesn't lift, doesn't run, doesn't do any sort of cardio.....all of his exercise is in the ring.....and in the bed presumably

On the combination of his amateur wrestling background, performance as a pro-wrestler, and success in MMA......I'd vote Brock in. But not yet, just like I wouldn't vote for Cena yet....

The thing with wrestling/MMA (and I'm someone who believes that they are very much intertwined and from the same roots anyway)....is that when it comes to the HOF, Dave opened Pandoras box, then shut it, then occasionally opens it again. For several years he combined the two in the voting. Japanese wrestling/MMA hybrid stars got in more on the strength of their "legitimizing" wrestling and drawing power in MMA than what they actually accomplished in pro-wrestling. To this day he includes UFC in the promotion and promoter and best show categories, and I believe top draw too.... It's his HOF, he sets the criteria, so nobody can help but be confused at this point when it comes to a candidate like Brock....

Great news!

Is DVDVR down for everybody again?

The problem with Rock's "great performance" is that he completely steals the spotlight with his overacting, so what was supposed to be Goldberg's huge debut match become The Rock Show. This is a match I liked live due to how entertaining Rock was, and on repeat viewing really grew to hate it. I actually think it's way worse than Michaels' bumping in the Hogan match, which never bothered me because it was an old immobile Hogan doing nostalgia, versus Goldberg who was still phyically a monster and brought in to theoretically be the top face in the company. Rock's performance didn't work in the context of a Goldberg match the way Shawn's did in the context of a Hogan match. Check out the match the next month with Chris Jericho for an example of a guy "dancing around a hat rack" and making his opponent look like a million bucks, without stooging so much that it overtakes the match. Goldberg comes out of that looking way better.

Nash had very long legs and bad knees.....I don't remember Bret's sharpshooter looking particularly great on him either

They had really bad luck with injuries that year too. There was Benoit needing neck fusion and Guerrero getting sent to rehab and eventually released, and both figured to be a huge part of the Invasion storyline. I think Benoit was supposed to turn on Jericho and go with WCW.