khawk20

One thing that Wrestlers from 84-89 in the WWF have going both for and against them is the amount of footage available of their regular arena work being super-sized compared with pretty much anywhere else. By this, I mean that a guy like Tito might have appeared almost every month on the Boston/MSG/Phila shows from 84 through 89, and while he would have some stellar performances available, he would also have more stinkers out there than a comparable NWA guy, since they didn't have monthly big arena shows televised.

It might be these clips fro IWE Japan: Rusher Kimura/Great Kusatsu vs. Luke Williams/Nick Carter[butch Miller]--9/16/74 Kimura/Kusatsu/Teranishi vs. Williams/Carter/Baron Von Raschke (10/7/74) They're just clips though.

Available Adonis material from the AWA: Adonis vs. Larry Hennig (St. Paul, 1981) Adonis vs. Greg Gagne (St. Paul, 1981 or possibly 82) Adonis vs. Jim Brunzell (St. Paul, 1981) Adonis vs. Hulk Hogan (St. Paul, 1982) Adonis/Ventura/Blackwell vs. Andre/Hogan (November 1981 St. Paul) several Adonis/Ventura matches vs. the High Flyers spanning a large portion of 1981, including the cage match, 2 non-title matches from Winnipeg and Minneapolis, the long complete 3/1/81 match from St. Paul, plus a good chunk of clips from the title change in Green Bay in May 1981. Adonis vs. Tommy Rich (Las Vegas, 1987) Adonis vs. DJ Petersen (Las Vegas, 1987) Adonis vs. Greg Gagne (Las Vegas, 1987) Adonis/Orton vs. The Rockers (AWA TV 1988) Adonis/Ventura vs. Gadaski/Reese from AWA TV (noteworthy for the Adonis-Gadaski exchanges, which are pretty cool) a Ventura/Adonis highlight package that I have noted for some of the moves Adonis pulls off within the highlights) Ventura/Adonis vs. Verne Gagne/Mad Dog Vachon (Minneapolis, 1980) Ventura/Adonis vs. Rick Hunter/Buddy Lane (2/3 falls from AWA TV 9/80) Ventra/Adonis vs. Ray Stevens/Tito Santana (2/20/81, Minneapolis) clips of 2 Ventura/Adonis matches against Bruiser and Crusher in Chicago, 8 and 9/81) Ventura/Adonis/Blackwell vs. Hogan/Gagne/Brunzell (Minneapolis 1981) Ventura/Adonis vs. Kenny Jay/George Gadaski (December 1981, AWA TV)--Ventura and Adonis lose the first fall and then go nuts, which got them suspended from the AWA. They were already wrestling in the WWF at this point and Adonis was only a few weeks away from headlining MSG against Bob Backlund--another really good match. Ventura/Adonis vs. Domenic DeNucci/Tony Parise (MLG Toronto, winter 1981) A large portion of the AWA matches are JIP in the usual AWA fashion. A few are complete. there may be a few more matches that I'm forgetting about right now, and I have not included any of his interview segments, of which there are a lot with him and Jesse.

Available AWA material: TV angle with Sheik Kaissie where Kaissie hits him with his sword, and two follow up matches in Winnipeg (5/14/81) and Minneapolis (circa 5 or 6/81). Santana vs. Bockwinkel (AWA title, May 1982) Santana vs. Bockwinkel (3/1/81, Minneapolis, #1 contenders match) Santana vs. Sgt. Jacques Goulet (11/81, St. Paul) Santana vs. Bobby Duncum (3/25/82, Winnipeg) Santana vs. Patera (11/5/81, Winnipeg) Santana vs. Billy Robinson (9/24/81, Winnipeg) w/Martel vs. High Flyers (7 minutes of 7/18/82 and almost all of the 8/29/82 rematch, both in St. Paul) Santana/Buck Zumhofe vs. Patera/Duncum (1/82 AWA TV) Santana vs. Jerry Blackwell (Winnipeg 12/11/80). Most of these AWA matches are JIP in the usual AWA style. There might be another match or two kicking around that I'm forgetting about right now but this is most if not all of it currently available.

There is footage available of Verne from the 50's through his last matches in 1986. The 60's stuff is minimal, but the CFA stuff has added to a pretty good selection of 50's stuff that was out there, and there is a decent amount of 70's material available as well. Almost all of his relevant 80's stuff is available. there is some Japan stuff out there including a 1976 match against Jumbo Tsuruta and a 1980 match against Giant Baba, amongst others. I'm glad the CFA stuff has come out because some of the Verne stuff has caught people's attention (vs. Carpentier and Bastien, specifically), and will help people get interested enough to seek out more of his material. One I would recommend heartily is a match from Chicago in the 50's vs. The Great Togo. I don't think it's up on the archives and I'm not sure if they have it to put up in the future, but if not people should seek it out.

Shit, not much. Some Luce film clips and some 8mm stuff from stadium shows, some six-man bits on film, the 1974 match vs. Bock and Stevens on TV where Heenan was introduced with Bock and Stevens, the title change in Winnipeg over Lanza and Duncum...not much more off the top of my head. The 70's stuff is limited but if Vince ever gets his shit together with the network, I think more will surface. I do have a bit of silent film of them wrestling each other before they teamed up which is sorta cool, too.

You'd move Slaughter to #1 if you saw him in the Super Destroyer II mask. the chin protusion made him look far more menacing than the average masked wrestler.

There is a limited selection of material from his AWA run as Super Destroyer II available. There are a couple of more moments that have surfaced since this was put together several years ago, mostly interview segments: SD II vs. Larry Hennig (arm wrestling challenge from AWA TV, circa 1978. SD II & SD III (Neil Guay) vs. Verne Gagne & Mad Dog Vachon (AWA Tag Champs)--short bit of film from 12/79 Chicago. SD II vs. Dino Bravo (AWA TV 1979). Bravo was new to the area and pulls off a major upset. SD II fires manager Lord Al Hayes on TV and introduces Bobby Heenan as his new manager (a few weeks after his Bravo match from TV) SD II vs. Giant Baba (PWF title, Minneapolis 6/22/80). SD II vs. Greg Gagne (Winnipeg 1980) SD II vs. Nick Bockwinkel (Minneapolis 1980). SD II/ Greg Gagne vs. Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan (Winnipeg 1980, Weasel Suit Challenge) Add to that some very, very early footage available of Slaughter from IWE Japan: Higo Hamaguchi vs. Bobby Slaughter (1/6/75)--highlights MIghty Inoue vs. Bobby Slaughter (1/7/75)--highlights Great Kusatsu vs. Bobby Slaughter (2/2/75)--highlights The clips aren't long but it's the earliest Slaughter footage available as far as I can tell.

There is some Memphis stuff around too IIRC.

Correct. Only one on film, possibly their only meeting period.

Perhaps you might change your mind on his 84-89 run if you measured his volume of good stuff against some of the other top WWF-only guys of the time frame. I mean, all things considered, the Valentine, Savage, random Orton matches (and at least that one St. Louis Adonis match) and Strike Force stuff seems like a lot, all things considered. I might be wrong on that, of course, but who knows?

On one hand, I wish the AWA had a wider variety of opponents for them to face. On the other hand, we'd have seen less wars against the Midnight Rockers.

This link is all Adonis from all over. It should help. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYj0Xa4mB9LNBZ0GadUKd_JNEi_rVjtyA

I'll throw Martel vs. Hansen at Super Clash I out here as an example, although it was criminally short and you might be leaving it out because of that.

As such, Dr. X vs. Verne for the AWA title on 8/31/68 is available. It's short (about 5 minutes) but worth a look.

Nothing substantative but I have been told that he was indeed extremely strong.

I agree, but it isn't my call, just throwing it out there. Some other older Destroyer footage from Japan that would probably merit watching for those with Beyer on their radar: 2/26/69: Toyonobori vs. The Destroyer (WWA title) (JWA Classics # 5) 3/5/69: Giant Baba vs. The Destroyer (JWA Classics #7)

If you haven't seen Andre vs. Mad Dog Vachon from 1972 it's worth checking out. He had a really long match in Japan vs. Kobayashi from June 1972 and another 6-man in that time frame that are worth checking out as well.

I've come across a match and some highlights of his 1982 work for Cannon's Superstars vs. Gino Brito that I can comment on when I get it in. Would his match vs. Verne in 1968 for the AWA title count here? He worked the Dr. X gimmick there as opposed to the Destroyer, but to me Beyer is Beyer. It's short but it's something from a prime part of his career. If it does fit, there is a bit of film of him teaming with Andre against Bock and Stevens from Chicago available. Dr. X was a big deal in the AWA and should not be discounted. Someone needs to get in touch with Steve Yohe and see if he has a Gordy List of some sort available for Beyer, just to educate those of us that know of him, but might not really know what he's all about.

I think the longevity aspect for teams that did last should add to their viability to some degree. If you aren't a draw, you won't be kept together or used in any sort of meaningful capacity for very long.

As a whole, I go with Martel there, but a big part of that is Martel had already spent many years working on his game by that point and was a more complete wrestler for more of the decade. Hennig debuting a year or so into the 80's meant his development didn't really begin to progress until the decade was half over.

Some matches to watch: 8/10/74, vs. Ray Stevens & Nick Bockwinkel, AWA TV, Minneapolis 7/7/77 vs. Blackjack Lanza & Bobby Duncum (AWA Tag Champs), Winnipeg. 3/1/81 vs. Jesse Ventura & Adrian Adonis, Minneapolis 3/22/81 vs. Jesse Ventura & Adrian Adonis (Cage match), St. Paul 5/14/81 vs. Ray Stevens & Nick Bockwinkel (#1 contenders match), Winnipeg 4/18/82 vs. Sheik Kaissie & Jerry Blackwell (Cage), St. Paul 6/8/82: vs. Rick Steamboat & Mr. Onita, Japan 8/29/82 vs. Tito Santana & Rick Martel, St. Paul (it's worth checking out the 7 or so minutes available of the end run of the first High Flyers vs. Strike Force match on 7/18/82 from St. Paul as well. Great energy considering it's minutes 23 through 30 of the match) 12/25/82 vs. Sheik Kaissie & Jerry Blackwell, St. Paul, Curt Hennig as referee 6/26/83 vs. Ken Patera & Jerry Blackwell, St. Paul 11/24/83 vs. Ken Patera & Jerry Blackwell (AWA Tag Champs), St. Paul, Ray Stevens as referee 2/7/85 vs. The Road Warriors (AWA Tag Champs), Winnipeg 3/28/85 vs. The Road Warriors (AWA Tag Champs), Winnipeg

To a point. He seemed to be a legitimately strong person, but apparently he was signed up to the CBS World's Strongest Man competition as a rib back in the day, and if that's true then I suppose it means those in the know who perpetrated the rib knew he wasn't quite in that class. He did do a lot of "drive a spike through a 2 x 4" type of gimmicks, though. Gimmicked material or not, I don't know. He is spoken of as a very strong wrestler but the line gets blurred in his case for me. Ken Patera deserves another mention as well. Am I wrong in thinking that Furnas had to have re-shaped his body for wrestling by the time he got into tagging with Kroffat? He always looks good, but not "super strong" good, like his many acheivements previous to wrestling would indicate he probably would have looked like..if that makes sense.

Thirded. Always the first one I think of. The original ECW One Night Stand (WWE version) is another one I remember having nothing but fun watching.