khawk20

Knowing and talking to several AWA people that watched the AWA both live and on TV faithfully through the 70's, 80's (and in some cases the 60's), it isn't a stretch to say that fans that were into it way-back-when talked about wrestling in a Meltzer-ian way, discussing "insider" rumours, tidbits about interactions with wrestlers in the community, and talking with people that were actually on the inside. Those guys talked if you got to know them. Same with some of the Montreal-area old-time fans I've talked with over the years, and even discussions with my father and grandfather when I was a kid about when wrestling used to come here and appear on their tv. What it demonstrates to me is that the community of "smart" fans existed, and the insider information was an enjoyable part of being a fan. It trickled out in smaller doses, but it was discussed amongst the fans of the product at the time, even sought out by them. The era of the internet and the WON becoming popular brought those smaller communities together in a way that could not happen before, and in time I believe did indeed expand the community of "smart" fans. I also believe those fans existed in greater numbers pre-internet and pre-WON than Jerry will acknowledge, but the broadness of the discussions were limited before either entity became as big as they did. *** Also, to Jerry's point about the stories of people having to be smartened up, I think there is some merit to that being necessary back then in some cases, but I often question the things like "Verne didn't smarten me up until I was in the dressing room before my debut". I just can't accept that someone could train for any length of time before realizing how much co-operation was involved to make almost any hold work. We figured that out as grade school kids the first time we mimicked our tv heroes in the schoolyard. No way new wrestlers and new backstage people could go so long without figuring out the performance aspect of it. I can accept the illusion of a face and a heel hating each other being maintained backstage to outsiders and potentially new insiders, but I imagine the questions would center more around "This is pretend and they still seem to not like each other and are kept apart and I have no idea why". The fans rioting and attacking wrestlers I consider a separate entity from the above. People went to the matches to lose themselves in the spectacle, and spending two hours geting their blood up watching the matches makes it easy for me to believe the basis for those kinds of stories. I've seen also seen it regularly in minor-pro hockey around here, where fans get so into hating the opposing team that their bus gets egged, players get attacked and there are fights with them off the ice and in the stands, things like that. Hockey isn't "worked" like wrestling is, but the ability of the fan to immerse himself in the game to the point of losing his concept of the game vs. real life is very similar to the way wrestling fans behave.

Got a quick overview of that for those without subs?

There is minimal Grand Prix around...maybe 6 shows worth. A few others were lost. Good footage (Andre vs. Mad Dog, Mad Dog vs. Carpentier, that stuff). Stampede footage from 1961 appeared on Classics on Demand. I suspect they have a show or two they could use, and probably some older individual matches. The Classics Stampede video run began IIRC in late 78. They titled the shows monthly as opposed to the week they aired, but they didn't appear or feel cobbled together from a whole month's worth of footage. Not too sure about the other ones, but outside of Grand Prix I have serious doubts that there is footage around from the other older Montreal promotions listed. The 1986 one maybe (not sure who was even in that version of it as International was still going strong at that time), but the others, probably not.

I've been watching some Central States discs I got in from April of 1984. Central States gets a bad rap a lot, but this era was actually pretty good and had some pretty fun stuff, including a Butch Reed/Wahoo McDaniel tag team, a young bearded Tommy Rogers, The Grapplers, One Man Gang, and plenty more. Much more fun than I expected.

I'm guessing it's the Philly match given how much Philly footage is available.

Abdullah and Mascaras are also good choices. They made Mascaras sound like the perfect wrestler and Abby sound like he would kill someone without even thinking about it. We should also remember the evolution of the Apter mags while we're at it. The 70's and pre-84 stuff was a lot different than the mags that came after Hogan got the belt, both in tone and style of writing. After 1984, the opinions of the editors in their columns became much less fiction-oriented, and then you started to see more of a bias in who was good and who wasn't in their opinion. That happened rarely before 1984.

...also, regarding my comments about Flair, I wasn't able to see Flair at all until a long time after 1981 as we did not have any TV he appeared on here. In that sense, the Apter mags boosted a lot of guys stock in my mind that I had never seen before. When you read about these guys every month for years without ever seeing them, those mags were a big factor in promoting how much you wanted to see them. Flair was tops in that department for me from reading them, no doubt.

I thought of the LOD first, but Flair was pushed to the moon from day 1 as champ, too. Lots of talk about how spectacular a champion he was, and about all the guys he was beating that they themselves pushed so heavily. That was from the end of 1981, never mind those mags flat-out declaring him the greatest, period, after their WWF war began in early 1984. That was funny as well because Hogan was on their covers a ton, yet they wrote tons of negative stuff about him. The pics they had to use were arena shots and cut-out older pics and stuff. Very funny looking for such a professional set of magazines, but they didn't have a choice. ...so yeah, LOD, Flair, Tommy Rich in 80-81, probably Dusty too, would be my choices.

I don't watch RAW a ton but I happened to be watching the Kofi-Cesaro match tonight. The match ended on break, seemingly so they could promote your NEED for the WWE App. Does this happen a lot? It didn't make me want to get the WWE app, it just pissed me off.

I did the same thing as a child after reading Peanuts/Charlie Brown paperbacks.

Well shit. RIP Larry.

Step one: Cut a hole in the box.

Related to Brody, i just watched a disc that had Brody's only "clean" job in the States possibly through the entire 80's on it a few days ago, vs. Kabuki of all people in Texas. That would have been circa 81 or 82. I had seen it before but not for years. ...and, to clarify, that "Clean Job" sees Brody get pinned for a 3 count but he does mostly kick out at 2 and a half, but as far as I know he took the pinfall loss unless there was an after-the-fact DQ. It did not appear that was the case. *** Brody is polarizing for many different reasons. I would investigate the Microscope forum to see if there is a thread on him, IIRC there is, and all the divisive points of Brody and his style/matches/attitude would be in it. If not there, it is somewhere on these boards...has to be.

I'd be interested in seeing the AWA linear title compilation.

Good one, forgot about that.

I find it hard to fathom that the Mad Dog blade accident aired on TV. Can you imagine if that happened on Raw or Smackdown now?

Mad Dog Vachon, on TV, was blading during a brawl with the Crusher when Crusher kicked him in the back of the head, driving the blade deep into an artery. Absolutely brutal and I believe the story that Mad Dog almost died before he got to the hospital. Roger Kent knew something was waaaaaaaaay wrong when he saw it and was trying to get help for Mad Dog while maintaining some semblance of kayfabe on the commentary. It's a bit disconcerting to hear him realizing Mad Dog could be dying right in front of him without really being able to say it. His calls for help were pretty frantic. It should be on youtube, check it out. It happened in either 1970 or 1971.

Something basic would be if there was anyone he regrets never having a chance to work with, either just once or in a longer program.

Only problem I have with this is that a film can edit out/remove anything that would act as a *wink* to the audience before it gets sent out to the theatre. Mistakes/missed spots happen all the time in wrestling, live, and as such can bring the viewer back to the reality of things in an instant. In the case of wrestling, a mistake/blown spot is a wink all it's own that movies don't have to contend with.