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Backlund had Dave's mild support, with the Sold Out MSG A Lot Of Times push to win over some folks. I suspect the online community only went so far in helping him past the margin. But without Dave and those MSG sellouts, he would have been dead. Fujiwara is starting at 0. He doesn't even have a base that someone like Backlund would have for the old "A Big Star For A Long Time" which always gets a pulse vote. I also suspect that even more ballots have been handed out since the time Backlund got in, and Michaels was firewalled against for several years. It's possible that Backlund wouldn't get in now, and that someone like Shawn (pretending the lions share of the Comeback hadn't happened) would have gotten in fairly easy. When you look at how easy Trip and Angle went in, one has to realize that getting someone like Fujiwara from a 0 starting point is extremely hard. Can't be done without Dave banging the drum for it. John

Corrected: Right, black hair. John

I think the irony of Hogan being on the list as a winner 7 times might fly by Dave. That sort of sets the example to vote for Trip. John

I'll pass. John

It would be strange if it's lost in the mist as it was a firmly held belief through most of the 90s: Lex was once good, and then went to shit. Dave is the one who keep bringing up Luger calling the matches against Steamer. I can't imagine that Dave's completely gone negative on the "Lex Was Once Good" notion. John

Given the way Dave has passed out ballots, the chances of Fujiwara ever getting in are extremely small. Someone would have to (i) write the perfect bio & analysis of Fujiwara's career, (ii) support it with a tight & focused best of disk, and (iii) use those to convince Dave. Those first two items would have to be created specifically with Dave in mind to convince, rather than say convincing the people here, or at WC, or at the DVDVR or at SC. Without Dave pushing Fujiwara, it's a lost cause. Even with him, it would be a tough cause to overcome the people who vote on Japan. The one thing on his side: there are few Japan Region candidates who are viable. So if there is a bit of a bandwagon that Dave gets behind, he might stand a reasonable chance. John

I remember Yohe, Hoback and me giving a standing ovation to the cross armbreaker being whipped out in the Bret-Shawn Iron Man match. People around us on the floor wondered what we were doing. Yohe explained that he was the deadliest finisher in the world. People thought we were crazy. Granted... we were having "fun" with the spot, especially when it was drawing crickets from the crowd. But it does go to the Rock Bottom and the People's Elbow: They were over like shit. People sold their asses off for them, and they fans bought into them. That's pretty damn important in the end. I probably could spend some time on why I like the People's Elbow and didn't much care for Angle's Ankle Lock. But I'm willing to cop that the Ankle Lock was over, people sold their ass off for it, and fans bought it. Doesn't mean we can't still look at it in a critical fashion. John

The Rayo spot was great. And the follow up point on Universo hammered it home. John

Very cool for Wade and his family. Makes me feel old remember Wade back in college when I started reading the Torch. A lifetime ago. John

While I'm at it, there's a sense of progression one feels: Jesus --> Pope --> Martin Luther Jesus rebelled against the teaching/leadership of the faith he grew up in. At a certain point, the Pope and Church became every bit as orthodox and set in protecting their power of leadership as those who Jesus rebelled again. Martin Luther, and various others, rebelled against that leadership/teaching and set their own path. At some point, sooner than one would have thought, the Protestant Churches were mirrors of the Catholic Church, with their leaders every much about protecting their power. When I finally read the thread, I tossed out: Meltzer, Mitchell, Wade, Scherer and Bryan and the rest of the hardcore fans of that generation(s) in a sense rebelled against the way wrestling was being presented to the public. They "taught" their followers/readers to look at wrestling in a different way, they way they looked at it: entertainment rather than sport, with a behind the scenes culture that often was as interesting as what was going on in the ring and inturn played a major role in shaping what went on in the ring. Perhaps Jesus and the Catholic Church to wrestling's Old Testament. Over time, it got as orthodox as what it rebelled again. And there's been a movement away from them probably is a parallel to the Protestant movement. Which inturn led to some of us getting a little to orthodox and set in out own rebellous beliefs. "Jumbo Was Lazy" was clearly Protestant vs. Catholics, and perhaps "Backlund Was Goofy vs Backlund Was a Decent Worker" was the next extension of that and perhaps the stage where things got a little orthodox. I'm wondering if my enjoyment of Hogan vs Orndorff is my own rebellion against some of my Protestant Beliefs. Because if there's one thing that the Wrestling Catholics and Wrestling Protestant shared, it was a firm belief that Hogan was the Anti-Christ. I waiver in by belief of that now. And yes... I'm joking largely through this. The exception would be to reafirm that it remains strange to see Dave, Bryan and others cite the opinions of people in the business a concrete proof of someone ability as a worker. John

I had forgotten that thread. My head hurts re-reading it. John

Cool. John

Really? 24/7 release, or slipped out of the vault? John

Never aired, never shown, never on a WWF release, never in trade circles. John

http://www.wwe.com/subscriptions/legacy/new09

Thanks for the heads up, Khawk~! John

Why would I want to rip it. Sounds like a good book. John

I don't know if anyone is offering it up as an "excuse". It's more an "explanation". Dave doesn't run his sites. He doesn't "accept ads" for his sites. The people who give Dave money to put his content up on the web are the ones accepting the ads. Or perhaps more correctly cutting the deal with an ad provider that includes various advertising. Maybe one can toss out that since Dave owns the sites it's his responsibility. Even that's hard, because none of is really know what Dave's website deals are and how "ownership" is dealt with. I don't think it's been as clear cut as Wade's site or even Bob.com when Ryder owned it and Joey was the hidden co-owner. I think that's more the direction to go. It's Dave's "name" and Brand that are out front. If something looks bad, it reflects on Dave and the WON, not the people who run/host/own the site for him. Ignorance isn't an excuse. It is an explanation, but one that only goes so far if the stink gets attached to one's name and brand. Dave doesn't have much control over what Yahoo surrounds his Content with. If Yahoo went off shore and turned into porn heaven, Dave doesn't have any control over that. But if he sticks around, it gets attached to his name. "Oh... he wrote for that porn site." At some point, you have to protect your name and brand. I think on this one, there weren't enough people to notice it and impact his name & Brand for him to do anything about telling the people running the site to take it down. I didn't notice it, probably because I zoned out of the ads and Daily Shill on the site. John

Dave has never controlled his websites. He's provided content and been along for the ride. John