jdw

Its more likely that if Konan gets in, the people who voted for him wont vote for another Mexican. Which is the point. They'll stop voting in the "Mexico Region": Current Mexico Region: 75 Folks who Vote for a Variety of luchadores 25 Folks who only Vote for someone like Konnan Future Mexico Region: 75 Folks who Vote for a Variety of luchadores It's easier to get 60% of the 75 voters than it is to get 60% of the 100 voters when 25% show up just to vote for Konnan. Japan was the same way. Kobashi and Liger in the years they came out got a load of votes from people who don't even follow puroresu. They've simply seen Dave pimp the fuck out of those two for years. They swell the number of voters... probably in their cases by almost double. Get rid of them, and people like Aja had chances. The question then becomes for luchadores: * are they a Aja Candidate * or are they a Hase Candidate The Hase style candidate still tends to get a chunk of their votes from non-puroresu fans, which helped them over the hump. Their being on the ballot, then, draws in a few more non-puroresu fans than would otherwise vote. It doesn't impact the rest of the field like Liger or Kobashi, but can impact some close calls (which the candidate is as well). An Aja is largely pulling for their 60% purely from the voters who know something about the region. It tends to be an uphill struggle. I don't know if there are any Hase Candidates once you get past Konnan. The best thing that can happen is get Konnan in, or better or worse, to open up the rest of the Lucha field. It's the sad, fucked up nature of how Dave runs it. Instead of splitting his ballot up into Regions, and telling voters which region they can vote in, Dave sends out a ballot with the assumption that a vote does (or *might*) know something about everyone on the ballot. It's a fairly easy thing for Dave to solve... but I'm not sure if he wants to. He really does need to rethink the election process. With Rock in and the rest of the group kind of just "there", it's the year for him to start thinking about it. Even he knows that there aren't really many strong candidates out there. I don't think he'd agree that the collection of people he's put in (he would point to "the voters put in") over the past 5-6 years have been collectively mediocre. He probably think's 90% of them are worthy. But he *would* agree that the pickings are getting slim. The problem is that the way he's set it up, a fair amount of those slim pickings are going to be getting in over the next 5+ years. John

People's Elbow. John

I don't know who wrote it, maybe Tomk, but somebody once posted something to the effect of: "this guy's style is like a frat boy getting laid, switching positions every 2 minutes desperately trying to make the girl cum." That's the best analogy for MOVES heavy matches and workers I've ever read. "well that didn't pop the crowd too much, HOW BOUT THIS????" That was me describing Vince Russo and Bischoffs first Nitro, although it works fine with the Roderick Strong and Austin Aries match I saw at ROH this weekend too. Sounds like a TDC riff from the 90s as well. John

It depends on how you define "hate". At least when I was dealing regularly with Dave, and the years in the WON up to that point, Dave really, really, really, really, really didn't like anything about Bob other than the standard things Dave marked for back then: 1. amatuer background ("though not as good as Brisco's") 2. he was "strong" 3. he had a "good body" for a Champion Even those tended to be knee capped. I wouldn't say that he hated Bob as much as he hated Hogan. But he really didn't like him at all, on just about every level. John

I think there was that too. But also another openly critical one at some other point... without having Jimbo's name openly attached to it. John

I seem to recall one anonymous letter from years ago in the WON or elsewhere that was clearly Jimbo's. Hoback or I may have even asked Dave about it later. It's not beyond Jimmy. John

Both sides are assholes about it. Bix's point is vaild. But the people he refers to as the "really mean that it's not ALL about moves" crowd miss the point that a lot of people who talk about moves *also* think "it's not ALL about moves". Frank gets tagged as a Moves Mark, and has admitted over the years that he had/has a fondness for moves (thought not really for flying or newer highend Kanyonesque spot-fu moves-o-the-month). But to tag him as purly a Moves Mark, or one who only judges matches on moves, tends to miss the boat that he's talked about face-in-peril, payback spots, structure, stooging, heeling, comedy spots, etc. over the years as much as he's talking about moves. Frank's an asshole, obviously... like most of the rest of us in various ways. But pigeon holing him as a Moves Mark tends misses that there's more there. John

This was the match from Mexico earlier in the year: If Dan doesn't have it, he has access to it and this would help point him in the direction of the tape: He knows what that means. If he doesn't, I can refresh it for him. John

It aired on TV Asahi: Ask Dan. He was obsessive about getting everything related to TJS vs. Inoki. I do see two other UWA title matches the two had that year popping up on lists that Dan would have access to: 4/13/80 in Mexico City (aired 4/18/80) and 7/17/80 in Kuramae Sumo Hall (aired 7/18/80). John

Tend to agree with Loss that the first thing that popped into my mind when hearing it was "roid injury". After all, people who've been around the Roid & Rasslin story for what seems like two decades now remember being taught back when Scott Steiner's muscles were shredding in 1991 that it was a roid type of injury. Don't know anything about Cena's usage. But it is what crossed my mind. John

I agree with the notion that Wade's point is confused and confusing. He's rather pathological about Jericho at this point, a bit like Dave when some aspect of Montreal gets mentioned and "Here we go again..." Note - I tend to agree with Dave on Montreal far more than the Vince Supporters viiew point. Simply that Dave said about 98% of what he had to say about Montreal within the first 12-18 months after the event, and it's been rehash since then... and an itch he can't but help to scratch when it comes up. :/ John

One suspects that a lot of "leads" and "names" are going to be coming out over the next year after that one. The steriod world has long been one of denial and not naming names. But I think we're seeing more people flipping now that LEA is getting the goods on them. John

Eghads... if your aiming this at mean, I was this way on wrestling before there ever was a internet wrestling community and it had nothing to do with looking "smart". Christ, I was the same way before I ever started watching wrestling, and thought Pete Rose was an old fart who sucked on the diamond in 1983 for the Phils. It's one of the ironies of that backlash in the IWC. The same people who get worked up by criticism of favorites or negativity among posters will turn around and say Mussina is washed up with the Yanks, Shaq is fat and breaking down in the NBA, Carr should be fired at Michigan, Coach K is overrated at Duke, Teressa Earnhardt was an idiot for not giving Junior the Brinks Truck in NASCAR, etc. I've never gotten why what each and everyone of us do in so many other aspects of our lives (bitch and moan) is somehow "bad" in wrestling fandom. An ex-girlfriend is a psycho bitch... but don't ever say something critical about Toyota's wrestling. The boss is a cocksucker who doesn't know what he's doing... but don't be critical of Mr. McMahon or Paul E. because they're geniuses. Dad's old, slowing down, not as good as he once was and needs to pass the family business onto the kids. But Ric... John

This is an example of where people read things that aren't there. I do think Ric is an old fart, and that he does suck in the ring. I don't think he's worthless. I certainly could find a use for him if I were the WWE. It's unlikely that it's a use Ric would like, because ego and insecurity need a certain role/push/stroking to be handled. But I certainly see worth... probably far more than the WWE themselves do, and possibly more than some people here to, and certainly more than Ric himself does because he remains focused on being in the ring and being pushed hard. I think if the name "Flair" wasn't involved, and I was talking about some other old, shitty wrestler who was over, that people's defenses wouldn't get worked up. Nor would they try to toss stuff at me like "he's still over" and "the crowd is eating his stuff up". After all, I've been one of the people pointing out that while Hogan never really was that great of a worker, he was over and knew how to work in a fashion to make the fans eat his shit up. You know... things like Rock-Hogan at Mania. The rest of the post was similar reading stuff that isn't there. I'd like Ric to retire. I enjoy poking him because I know it drives Flair Fan batty, and one needs to find wrestling entertainment where you can these days since so much of it is pretty putrid. But even if he retired, I could find uses for him for pretty much the rest of his life... and pray that he had a come to jesus moment of realizing the in-ring stuff should be put behind him, it's time to get his personal life and finances under control, and that he's have lifetime employment if he taks care of himself. That's how much I respect him and his place in the business, and value his ability to continue to contribute to it. But I'm not the billionare, and Ric doesn't work for me. I'm still just a fan, and like the rest of the people one willing to state his opinion on things. John

I suspect that like Dave, you still have that intolerance. And like Dave, it wouldn't be hard to find. John

I doubt any think that deeply about it. My comment, as was the one about Bryan, was a play on the old, popular phrase that "Wrestler X killed himself for us" while doing something nuts in the ring. Considering that the nuttiness of Chris in the ring was one of many things that lead to his actions and death, that old phrase does have new, unsavory meaning. John

I didn't say it was. It's just an example of a praised Flair match that I thought wasn't good, or wasn't a good Flair performance. I can't think of a single Flair match since he returned where I thought he had a good performance other than by the standard of "he's an old guy who doesn't have to do much of anything in the ring to get praise". But perhaps for one of the future sets, you can suggest to Loss a "Best of Ric In the WWE" list. Include this very good match with Edge. John

I don't look for Ric to be "RIC", and don't hold his current work to that standard. I guess it depends on how one defines "very good". His ladder match with Edge got a lot of praise, including Ric's preformance in it. I pretty much laughed through the whole thing for how bad it was, and specifically how awful Ric was. John

That actually would be my point, and one that I've made a lot over the years about the continued pushing of stars of the past rather the the company focusing on how to get the most out of a Rey Jr. or an Eddy when they were red hot (as opposed to torpedoing everyone like that). I've and everyone else has made that point so many times for the past decade that, like much of the same old very valid criticism of the WWE (and WCW) that we've made over the past decade, it's fucking tiring to rehash. Talk about "retiring" old spot - wasting time analyzing the WWE being a fucked up company is older than "Flair Fan" and "Bangs" talk. It's also always been a bigger topic of discussion, and even now when interest in the WWE is low, it still is a bigger topic of discussion. Christ... much of the discussion that's come out due to Benoit is a rehash of what people have been talking about for years, just with more focus because it's such a horrific event. So, rather than rehash the old, so obvious that anyone can re-write it again analysis, it's far more entertining simply to say: But he *is* an old bastard who sucks. John

God... as fucked up financially as Ric has been over the years, who in the hell would be stupid enough to trust Ric with cash? Is this just another way to fleece the marks? John

I don't think Rocky is the WWE's competition. I also didn't think it was a good storyline for Ric. I don't really think UFC is the WWE's competition either. If the WWE had good product that connected with the fanbase, it really wouldn't matter how well UFC is doing. Only "mostly an embarrassment". John

As best as I can recall, I first started seeing it in the WON by Dave, around the time Rocky came out and was a "hit". Someone who reads the Torch (kjh?) could say if Bruce was pushing it as well. Dittos Fig-4 if there are readers for it. I thought it was a goofy reference, and chalked it up to the Usual Flair Fan Suspects grasping at another straw for Ric to have one more gloriuous run before hanging it up. John

Here's the worldwide for 2006: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/...2006&p=.htm #33 We don't know what the advertising budget was - not small given the blitz here, and don't forget the he was down in Aussieland when they found the performance enhancers on him. But it did have a terrifically low production budget. It was a very profitable movie. But Borat was probably twice or three times as profitable. Perhaps the WWE would be better off finding their Borat than their Rocky. John