jdw

Will's set has 106 Kawada matches from 2000-2010, 100 of them after the split. The 100/106 aren't any attempt to get "everything" since the set was huge anyway. But it certainly is a representative sample, and an attempt to put out the good/important stuff. Sure, there are 13 matches in Hustle, but 7 of those 13 have The Divine Tenryu in them... so... yeah... if Hustle isn't some blight on Tenryu's 39 year career, it's hard to see it a blight on Kawada's 28 year career. Maybe someone wants to walk through it and get across how shitty Kawada was in the 00's. In turn, take 106 matches each from Misawa, Kobashi and Taue in the same period and let us know how great they were. Of course there's going to be more overlap on the NOAH guy's matches as they faced each other or teamed with one another, where as the list from Kawada has just 2 matches with Misawa (both singles), one with Kobashi (singles) and three with Taue as his partner... 5 of those 6 before the split. Anyway, here it is for ease of reference if one wants to have fun. Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (1/17/00) Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Takao Omori (1/23/00) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Vader (2/17/00) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (3/31/00) Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Johnny Ace & Mike Barton (JIP) (6/9/00) Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Takao Omori (6/9/00) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Masa Fuchi (7/1/00) Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen & Maunakea Mossman (7/23/00) Toshiaki Kawada & Dr. Death vs. Stan Hansen & Genichiro Tenryu (9/2/00) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (10/9/00) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Genichiro Tenryu (10/28/00) Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Nobutaka Araya (12/6/00) Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Dr. Death & Mike Rotunda (12/9/00) Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Yuji Nagata & Takashi Iizuka (12/14/00) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (NJ 1/4/01) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (NJ 1/4/01) Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Taiyo Kea & Johnny Smith (1/14/01) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keiji Mutoh (4/14/01) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuya Nagai (4/29/01) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima (NJ 6/6/01) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (6/8/01) Toshiaki Kawada & Nobutaka Araya vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Masa Fuchi (6/30/01) Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuya Nagai vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Ricky Fuyuki (12/5/01) Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuya Nagai vs. Keiji Mutoh & Taiyo Kea (12/7/01) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keiji Mutoh (2/24/02) Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Satoshi Kojima & Keiji Mutoh (4/12/03) Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Satoshi Kojima & Kendo Kashin (5/25/03) Toshiaki Kawada & Satoshi Kojima vs. Keiji Mutoh & Arashi (6/5/03) Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Satoshi Kojima & Jimmy Yang (6/8/03) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Arashi (6/11/03) Toshiaki Kawada, Nobutaka Araya & Shigeo Okamura vs. Masato Tanaka, Shinjiro Ohtani & Hideki Hosaka (6/13/03) Toshiaki Kawada & Keiji Mutoh vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Naoya Ogawa (Z1 7/6/03) Toshiaki Kawada & Ryuji Hijkata vs. Satoshi Kojima & Jimmy Yang (7/12/03) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keiji Mutoh (7/13/03) Toshiaki Kawada vs. The Gladiator (9/6/03) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Shinjiro Ohtani (9/6/03) Toshiaki Kawada & Ryuji Hijikata vs. Mike Awesome & TAKA Michinoku (10/5/03) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Don Frye (10/26/03) Toshiaki Kawada, Nobutaka Araya & Ryuji Hijikata vs. Keiji Mutoh, Tomoaki Honma & Arashi (12/2/03) Toshiaki Kawada & Kendo Kashin vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Wataru Sakata (12/5/03) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Naoya Ogawa (Z1 12/14/03) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Genichiro Tenryu (1/18/04) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Shinya Hashimoto (2/22/04) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Cactus Jack (Hustle 5/8/04) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuya Nagai (7/22/04) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keizo Matsuda (IWA 8/31/04) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Osamu Nishimura (9/3/04) Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuya Nagai vs. Shinsuke Nakamura & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (NJ 10/24/04) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Taiyo Kea (10/31/04) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (12/5/04) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (1/16/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima (2/16/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Naoya Ogawa (Hustle 3/18/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (4/20/05) Toshiaki Kawada & Taichi Ishikari vs. Hi69 & Yuuji Hino (Kaientai Dojo 5/28/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Tomoaki Honma (6/3/05) Toshiaki Kawada & Kensuke Sasaki vs. Keiji Muto & Kohei Suwama (6/19/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (NOAH 7/18/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Tatsumi Fujinami (NJ 8/5/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yuji Nagata (NJ 8/6/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Minoru Suzuki (NJ 8/11/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Osamu Nishimura (NJ 8/13/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mikhail Ilioukhine (U-Style 11/23/05) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Touru Owashi (dragondoor 2/7/06) Toshiaki Kawada & Kohei Sato vs. Wataru Sakata & Ryoji Sai (Hustle 5/13/06) Toshiaki Kawada & Kohei Sato vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Ryoji Sai (Hustle 6/15/06) Toshiaki Kawada & The Monster C vs. Tajiri & Kintaro Kanemura (Hustle 7/11/06) Toshiaki Kawada vs. D-Lo Brown (7/30/06) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Taiyo Kea (8/27/06) Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu, Kohei Sato, Giant Vabo & The Monster C vs. Naoya Ogawa, Tajiri, Shinjiro Ohtani, Razor Ramon HG & New Yin-sama (Elimination Match) (Hustle 10/9/06) Toshiaki Kawada & Keiji Muto vs. Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (AJ 12/2/06) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (NJ 1/4/07) Toshiaki Kawada, Keiji Mutoh & TAKA Michinoku vs. Brother YASSHI, Rosey & Kohei Suwama (2/12/07) Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Shinjiro Ohtani & RG (Hustle 3/18/07) Toshiaki Kawada vs. TAJIRI (3/28/07) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima (4/7/07) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keiji Muto (4/7/07) Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu & Tajiri vs. Shinjiro Ohtani, Kushida & RG (Hustle 4/19/07) Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. HG & RG (Hustle 4/21/07) Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu & ACHICHI vs. HG, Wataru Sakata & Ryuji Sai (Hustle 6/10/07) Toshiaki Kawada & ACHICHI vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Minoru Suzuki (Hustle 6/17/07) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yutaka Yoshie (Muga 6/21/07) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yutaka Yoshie (Muga 9/23/07) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (10/18/07) Toshiaki Kawada & Kensuke Sasaki vs. Osamu Nishimura & Masa Fuchi (11/23/07) Toshiaki Kawada & Kensuke Sasaki vs. Satoshi Kojima & Kohei Suwama (12/9/07) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Ryouji Sai (Hustle 1/17/08) Toshiaki Kawada, Kohei Sato & Monster C vs. HG, TAJIRI & Ryouji Sai (Hustle 2/21/08) Toshiaki Kawada & Taiyo Kea vs. Keiji Mutoh & Tanahashi (All Japan 3/1/08) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Taiyo Kea (4/7/08) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (4/8/08) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Tigers Mask (8/31/08) Toshiaki Kawada & Kintaro Kanemura vs. Riki Choshu & Shiro Koshinaka (11/3/08) Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu & Tajiri vs. Shiro Koshinaka, Yuji Nagata & Jushin Liger (HUSTLE 8/27/09) Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Jun Akiyama & KENTA (NOAH 10/3/09) Toshiaki Kawada & Kohei Sato vs. Shinjiro Ohtani & Masato Tanaka (Z1 10/18/09) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Masato Tanaka (Z1 10/24/09) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (Z1 1/1/10) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 2/28/10) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Ryuji Sai (Z1 3/2/10) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mohammed Yone (NOAH 4/10/10) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kohei Sato (Z1 4/11/10) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Naomichi Marufuji (NOAH 4/13/10) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (NOAH 4/24/10) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 4/25/10) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akitoshi Saito (NOAH 5/2/10)

I hate the shoutbox on CrazyMax. It's on every page of the board, even when you go into check your PM's.

He seems to have tagged with Brody in three waves: 10/74 - 07/75 in Tri-State (future Mid-South) 07/76 - xx/76 in the WWWF 04/82 - 12/84 in All Japan There were some other matches here and there in between, and perhaps some here and there after as well, especially ones that are never going to be known about. The time with Brody really was a small amount of what Hansen was up to, even up through 1984. There's this large chunk of his career from the beginning of 1977 through leaving New Japan at the end of 1981 where he was establishing himself on his own largely in Georgia and New Japan but also the swing back through the WWF. There are around 48 of his 73 tv matches in NJPW available from that period, possibly more if there's been someone uploading old original TV like we've seen for AJPW. Some of the WWF and GCW is available as well. There's a decent amount of this developmental stage out there, though admittedly it gets repetitive as there were something like 19 Inoki-Hansen singles matches that made TV, of which Dan has 17 of them. Amazingly on the first two don't look like they're out there, after that the run is complete. Yow. Anyway... Even the 04/82 - 12/84 period was all teaming together: 9 series. There were complete long series: the three RWTL. Those account for the majority of their tags in that period: 43 tags. Two series saw them drop in for just two week runs: the 1983 & 1984 Carny, accounting for 19 tags. The other four series were roughly one week spots where they were both in AJPW and worked 13 matches together. 1982 Grand Champion Series (04/16 - 04/22 - teamed 3 times) 1982 Real World Tag League (11/26 - 12/13 - teamed 12 times) 1983 Champion Carnival (04/15 - 04/28 - teamed 8 times) 1983 Super Power Series (08/25 - 08/31 - teamed 1 time) 1983 Giant Series (10/14 - 10/20 - teamed 3 times) 1983 Real World Tag League (11/25 - 12/12 - teamed 12 times) 1984 Champion Carnival (04/13 - 04/26 - teamed 11 times) 1984 Super Power Series (08/23 - 08/28 - teamed 6 times) 1984 Real World Tag League (11/22 - 12/22 - teamed 19 times) It probably would surprise most people that after the big angle of Hansen showing up on the final night of the 1981 Tag League that the two would tag only 3 times the entire next year in All Japan before getting together in the 1982 tag league. Certainly surprised me when I saw it the first time in the record books. There's not as much Brody & Hansen as folks think given the iconic nature of the team. One would find Hansen as often coming in working a series without Brody as with him in the period, and Brody working his own tours such as his 1985 one. It's a bit more spotty on what's available, though it is the period of all those singles matches where he's not working with Brody in the ring. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if up through the end of 1984 that there are 4-5 times as many Hansen "without Brody" matches available as there are "teaming with Brody".

He did pin him with the aid of Elizabeth's shoe.

I get a big smile out of the Warlord Luv that I inspired.

Jingus has a good point in #73. Benoit, among others, was pretty much the antithesis of the NWO and Sting-Lex-Steiners-Piper-Savage-DDP guys in his Monday Night Wars time with WCW, and more than a bit of the antithesis of the Austin-Rock-Undertaker-Foley-Trip-Vince etc guys of the WWE in his early years there. Not that plenty of us didn't like Austin or Rock (from NOD on) or Foley or Mr. McMahon. But Benoit was a contrast to that. I also think that it's always worthwhile to not that there are plenty of ways to have a good match, or an effective match. Hogan doesn't have to work like Flair, nor Flair like Hogan, while Misawa and Kawada can work different from them. Benoit was another way to work. It was effective or good depending on how one wants to slice it.

What's amazing on the list of reviews is to not the 25 guys in the matches: Tom Zenk Rick Martel Dory Funk Jr Terry Funk Giant Baba Hiroshi Wajima The Terminator Genichiro Tenryu Ashura Hara John Tenta The Great Kabuki Abdullah The Butcher TNT Stan Hansen Jimmy Snuka Dan Kroffat Toshiaki Kawada Samson Fuyuki Jim Brunzell Bobby Fulton Tommy Rogers Doug Furnas Mitsuharu Misawa Kenta Kobashi Tsuyoshi Kikuchi There are a number of locks to finish in the Top 100 in there, and a number who might be outside but get some good support.

Has The Warlord been nominated yet?

On one side, I can say that I haven't let it affect the way I assess his work since it's largely frozen in time. But the reality of it is that it does affect the way I assess his work. If you no long can watch someone's matches without having the visualizing of him strangling Nancy to death in a very horrific fashion, then drugging and suffocating his seven year old son to death... well, it does affect how one assess him. We can have a discussion about some match and I can pull it up and take a look at it (say a Baba vs Race match), and my assessment on them may be different than before, or confirmed. With Benoit... I have no idea what I'd think of the Starcade match with Jarrett. I can only say what I thought about it in 1996, and what I thought about it when re-watching it in the early/mid-00s. That does affect how I assess him. As I said, he's pretty fixed in time for me.

I suspect that JCP could have done okay if they merged with FCW in 1984 and didn't try to run every city 16+ times a year and/or hot shot through programs. But even if they did well in a standard cyclical fashion, they still would have done no better than a push with the WWF. Vince had Hogan. With Florida's population, which was exploding, and being less Southy than much of the South, it was always a place that he was going to push to get into. He didn't care about running a territory still workload there. He wanted the big cities. There would be decent money in doing a push with the WWF for JCP. There was in Philly, Baltimore and Chicago, even if they probably overall were behind in each there was good money. Whether all of those push areas could have been maintained by JCP forever into the 2000s... wasn't going to happen. They would reach that talent problem eventually. Vince also would have had the money advantage given he would have the entire rest of the country other than Mid Atlantic and Georgia and a few hold outs that didn't really matter like Memphis. With the money he could pick off guys like he did with Rude and Duggan and DiBiase, grab Hennig and the Rockets before JCP did, etc. I do think JCP needed to grow. Sitting purely in Mid Atlantic would have meant a quick death as there just isn't enough there to sustain the promotion for a long number of years before burning out. It's more a matter of where to grow to, what would be sustainable (which even would be finite in time without fresh blood), and where to avoid breaking points of over extending. Well... and be smarter business folks than JCP were as well.

If one were to rank the wrestlers in the Baba Booking Hierarchy at the time, it would be this way: 1. Misawa 2. Hansen 3. Kawada 4. Gordy 5. Williams 6. Taue 7. Kobashi Kobashi had 0 singles wins against #1, #2, #3, #5 & #6. He had just gotten his first one over Gordy in May. On the flip side, Hansen had only done singles jobs for Misawa (the first one less than a year before) and Gordy. None of the other four had wins over him. Baba was very formally structured at the time. Kobashi wasn't going to beat Hansen quite yet. The problem is less that he beat him in 1994, but instead that (like Kawada finally beating Hansen in 1993) it was off television, off a big show, it was kind of buried rather than a big moment on a big show. Just a Carny League match, though at least there were cameras for a video tape release... though who knows how many that thing sold in those days. Anyway, 1993 was way too early for Kobashi to beat Hansen. He was just starting to get some semi-final singles matches at Budokan... with this being the first one ever.

Yep. I think as Kriz and I walked through in the Vince & Hogan vs The World thread, Vince always was going to go into Florida and would have some success there. He was running in the state right from 1984. He had mixed success, but Vince & Hogan is what killed of CWF. JCP bought CWF after Vince already effectively "won" Florida. The best JCP ever was going to do in the state after that was a "push" similar to how they ran in Philly, Baltimore and Chicago. Which is perfectly fine business, unless you're squeezed into bad arenas. I don't know a ton about the secondary arenas of the era for Florida, if the WWF had been able to get exclusives in the best one in each major metro. I think we talked in that thread that JCP's best chance would have been earlier if they could have: * gotten a merger with GCW before it completely fell on its ass * gotten a merger with CWF when it was clear Vince was expanding and FL would be a target We may have bounced around a few other "natural fits" for JCP in the 1984-85 range, though I'm drawing a blank on ones better than GCW and CWF. They also would have needed to be smart to *not* run them as individual territories and instead combine them into a super territory. Split crews would have been fine, but even the WWF had issues drawing in even major towns when doing Hogan Cards vs Non-Hogan Cards. You need a lot of hot issues, or people will skip the R'n'R vs MX + Magnum card and instead wait for Flair's turn to be in town.

They run a schedule very much based on the weekends based for "regular house shows" (running Fri-Sat), then tv tapings on Mon-Tue. They do run some split crew nights, but I don't know if the data is available to do a really good analysis of all of the implications. Overall, my thought it the schedule is far more conducive to sustaining things. Greensboro had at least 16 shows in 1986, and Charlotte was probably in the same range. I get that some areas like Memphis ran weekly. But Memphis itself went down.

How consistent has it been? The also work a very limited schedule, two nights a week that are TV (which likely on average over those 10 years draw higher than non-TV and non-PPV) along with a monthly PPV (again a likely ratings spike). They come to town a few times a year rather than running the Garden weekly or how ever many times JCP ran Charlotte and Greensboro in 1986. It's really a much different business model. Add in that the talent around Cena has changed over the years. There has been an influx/change of talent over the years.

I would have let Watts die and cherry pick his talent, with Ted being the key one. But it's as likely that Vince would have cherry picked him anyway. Could he have helped? Short term. He's not a successor to Flair and Dusty on top, instead being someone of their generation. At a certain point you run out of fresh things to do with him that help draw money. Happened in the WWF: he was threw as a drew after the runs with Hogan and Savage. The WWF was able to run those programs longer than JCP would as well given how they ran house shows and programs. JCP would have burned through things fairly fast. To continue drawing like they did in 1986, and in *spurts* in 1987 & 1988, they would have needed a regular flow of talent and/or the ability to have more Stings pop up. Talent that worked in an NWA drawing way rather than a Hogan Opponent way. Hogan could draw with Kimala or Bundy or Quake. JCP isn't going to draw with those types of guys opposite Flair, or opposite Lex in a major US Title feud helping draw like MX vs R'n'R did. It's a real dilemma to book it out without a flow of talent. We can fantasy book, and I'm sure that several folks have over the years all the way back to the time. I did when I was watching it. But things like Savage coming in, or Ted staying fresh for a couple of years in a top drawing spot... it's hard if one is looking at it realistically.

JCP would still have gone out of business. If you walk through Cornette's MX book, you can see the business cycling up and down. Corny himself points out to shows going down with stale programs even in 1987, then picking back up. At some point without an regular infusions of top talent, the crowds go down. Which is common with every territory ever. The talent infusion would have two issues: * lack of territories developing new stars * Vince buying up talent, not just from JCP but from others that were being developed JCP never got another "new" main event guy who hadn't already cycled nationally after Lex and to a degree Sting (who was more a "blossomed" beyond expectations rather than signed and/or developed). Vince himself eventually ran into the issue, and he was strongly looking for main eventers initially to compliment Hogan and later to be the Next Hogan. If you look at the landscape, there really weren't a lot of guys post-Lex that could have come in to anchor the top. Certainly not ones who would fit what JCP fans were coming out for when crowds were up. At some point, even if the company were as well booked in 1987-88 as it was in 1986, it would have hit a down turn. Upticks would have more likely been limited ones (like Flair vs Lex in 1988) rather than sustained ones like 1986. Unless they pulled several miracles out of their ass. Just not at all likely.

What's funny about the 1995-2007 comment is that it evolved and changed as much in that period as 2008-2015 has. Perhaps more so. There was no nebulous "group think" in 1995-2007, and hardcore wrestling fandom changed radically from 1990 (when Benoit first was high on the list of best workers in the world) to 2007 (when the murders happened). I don't know how many where around through all of that, both online and in the sheets. But I suspect Dylan would agree that online hardcore fandom in 2007 was considerably different from 1995. Kriz probably could as well... don't know if Childs was around for all of that, but I think most. * * * * * As far as the backlash, I think we've been talking about it for a while in this thread and other places. I think we all agree the majority of it is Murders related, with a dash of general revisit/revision that always happens but specifically has happened with the Juniors where he made his initial big impact. The revisit/revision was always going to impact him, regardless of anything else. The murders drives a lot of people to ground. As indicated, I liked his work at the time, perhaps some aspect more than others and some less. I suspect if he wasn't a murderer, I'd be fine popping in stuff like Shawn vs Jarrett and Benoit vs Jarrett to do a piece comping the two, why I thought the Starcade match was better, and what parts of Shawn's work annoyed the shit out of me. But after the murders, I don't have any desire to watch Chris.

Jerome is okay. He pinged me the day after the attacks. The shooting wasn't far from his home (500 meters), and it's an area he regularly just walks through like so many others do in the evening.

Thoughts with you and your family, Adam.

I didn't feel like calling it dog crap in the event someone, such as the original poster, liked parts of it. The card did nothing for me, but I also spent the decade watching a metric ton of bad PPVs from the WWF and WCW (not to mention ECW), so consider "pedestrian" to be "yet another weak PPV". I indicated in my post that it was a slog at the time to watch. The promotion comes across far better in Best Of sets than it did in real time because all (or at least most) of the tripe gets left on the cutting room floor. I mean... I was watching All Japan weekly in 1992 & 1993 at the same time. I know that a slog it was to keep up with the US promotion that I liked at the time, hence my other comment: "frustrate the hell out of you".

Yeah, that's an odd comment. The majority of fans in that era who are similar to the posters here were fans of Benoit's work. I'm not saying it was 100%, but is was quite strong. To the degree that if someone like me indicated he didn't love Chris' WWF/WWE heavyweight work, that against with the majority. It's an odd comment because this board has quite a few posters who were around online in that era. So...

I don't think anyone ever thought the title change was especially good/great. The Jumbo-Martel matches that people have long pimped are the 7/31/84 rematch in Tokyo and the 9/29/85 remain in St. Paul. The title change was the first time they'd ever worked together.