Marty

I'm split in-between the two viewpoints. I think Lance is making too big a deal over who wins and who loses. That said... The Eddy loss is not the greatest example. It was a match that Brock mainly dominated and Eddy ended up winning due to the Goldberg run-in, which set up Brock for a Mania program right away, with Steve Austin having a role in it no less. Also, that program got time on their main show, as it was one of those "special" cross-brand Mania matches they do from time to time. I don't recall the Eddy-Angle match being set up until well after, and it also only got time on Smackdown. Not that it wasn't a major program at the time, but it's not like the loss to Eddy relegated Lesnar any. On the other hand, I recall from a house show I went to in Nov. '03 how inferior Brock was booked and made to look vs. Undertaker. I can't remember definite specifics, but it felt like the sneaky, sometimes cowardly heavyweight compared to a powerhouse, unstoppable heavyweight (like he was vs. Cena recently or against Taker the year before). Felt like a big change to me and less impressive as a result. Having the title, but being put into a feud like the Holly one seemed to add to taking the steam out of Brock. Made the way he lost to Eddy seem somewhat baffling, but I guess they wanted to set up his exit with a big program, with Austin Stunning him out of the company or something.

Question: Was Monday's match the first-ever one between Lawler and Danielsen? I'm not sure if Lawler ever worked with Danielsen during any of his indy stops. If they worked each other before, is there another match or matches worth checking out?

My wife grew into being a casual fan due to me being a fan. We didn't order the show, although I was considering it. However, she's like Johnny's roommate, in that she'll leave the room if it's something gruesome showing, like Eddy-JBL from JD04 or Magnum-Tully from Starrcade. So from what people have said about the Cena-Lesnar match, I doubt she could stick around for it.

Who told Rock it was a good idea to look like his WWE All Stars character?

Booker-HHH WM XIX.

Did that actually happen, or was that another Jake-told story we should put into question?

Only in our fantasies. In this case, though, it's the symbolism of her getting her vengeance.

El-P mentioned DiBiase's commentary in the other thread, and I thought it was the one thing that sucked in this whole thing, as both the match and the angle were good. Even Johnny Polo was fun at times. But hearing DiBiase's almost make Owen's turn not that special was a sign of the changing of the times, to say the least.

Been a little while since I last saw this, but it was recent enough for me to conclude that it was so stupid it was good.

It's been a while since I've seen this, but the last time I watched it, the thing that stood out for me was how cycled down everyone looked, especially Diesel. Also, agreed with El-P about DiBiase's commentary sucking.

I think that point's a bit overstated. Michaels' wacky bumping in that match isn't really all that different from what he used to do whenever he was a heel and wrestling some guy a lot bigger than himself. And I'd argue that it improved the match; what the hell else are you gonna do against Hogan in 2005 to make it watchable? Compare the wretched Hulk/Orton match from next year for a good picture of how it might've gone otherwise. . If you search on youtube there's a clip of Scott Hall doing comentary over the match and he flat out says HBK was purposely trying to make Hogan look bad with his selling and went into detail on how/why. It's pretty fascinating stuff I can't access YouTube at work (although I can search for it), I'm assuming this is the vid/clip you're talking about?

Weirdest wrestling dream I ever had was answering my phone and hearing Sid ramble for 20 minutes about what popped into his mind (marriage, philosophy, politics, etc.).

Oh, that. Yeah, that wasn't working for me either.

I just re-checked it and it's fine. That said, it's Wrestlecrap, so it might not work by the end of the week. Just thought the timing of their article, and this thread, was flawless.

I'd add Orton to Loss' list. Orton, before the 2007 feud with Cena, was very inconsistent as far as being a main eventer goes. The initial title run and feud with HHH not exactly doing much for him, the Undertaker feud helping somewhat but not propelling him into the stratusphere, playing arguably third fiddle in the WM22 feud, moreless buried in the DX feud leaving him in only a MITB spot for Mania 23. Cena feud was a contributer to making him more of a consistent main eventer, followed by the Hardy feud. As for Kurt, I think the late 2005 stuff helped get him over as a babyface, similar to HHH's feud with Cena in early 2006. It was effective too, as he was clearly booked as the star of the WM22 three-way in spite of losing and had a babyface run up until his departure was fairly effective, as opposed to his previous babyface runs that didn't really mean anything. Also, that Cena feud happened after a pretty ineffective series with HBK that arguably produced good matches, but didn't mean much for either guy (aside from maybe getting HBK over as a guy who can keep up with Angle wrestling-wise).

The frustrating thing is that on paper, pairing Stephanie with Jericho should have worked. They should have gotten molten heat. They almost went out of their way to make sure it didn't work. In Jericho's book he's talking about 2000 when he was an antagonist to Stephanie and HHH. He credits it with getting him over and putting his WWE career on track after a rough start. IIRC he wasn't a big fan of the 2002 booking, but liked working with Stephanie again. You mean he wasn't a fan of ANY of this??? http://www.wrestlecrap.com/newinduction1.html

Davey Boy Smith. One Night Only.

90-91 Sgt. Slaughter comes to mind as a contender, although I'm not sure he'd overtake 92 Rude or late 97 Michaels.

I'd say that's half 100% accurate and half really being kind. (I'd say Rock being called out for having notes written on his wrists is worse than Cena being called out for wearing different sorts of colours all the time.)

I don't think anything was more overcooked than Hell In A Cell 2004. Makes me think that even if all Kevin Nash could do is put bread in a toaster, he wouldn't leave it in for 20 minutes. Back on topic, my second request (Loss made a good analogy earlier, so I'll try to stick with guys who've had some main event time): - Otto Wanz - One Man Gang - Bruiser Brody

I don't know how much of this is designed, but Rock's character right now feels like a middle-aged guy trying desperately to be as edgy as he once was, but forgetting what really worked for him back in the day (with respect to his promos). Due to that, his watered-down stuff is looking worse since we're in a different era than his prime was. I don't know if that's a wise route to take as part of the build to "The Biggest Matchup In History" but it certainly feels that way to me.

Thanks Dylan. And yeah, I didn't bother throwing Bubba Ray in there because there's little doubt in my mind he smokes HHH.

I remember WWF Magazine back in the day pointing out that Tito Santana's Achilles heel was his fiery temper.

We don't have kids, but we've known many families that have had to deal with what Kia's dealing with. It's heartbreaking. Best wishes to you and yours, man. Hope mom and baby continue to do well.