Marty

More of a psychological weakness than anything, but Hogan attempts slams on big guys WAY too early. Oh, and a physical one: Off and on, HHH's quad can hang on by a thread.

Pretty much agreed. 97/98 I think you can throw a lot of credit to Owen and Rock for that. Heck, Rock was probably developing more as a worker in the summer of 98 then most might give credit to him for. Rewatched his KOTR final with Shamrock and it hasn't aged too badly. Curious about 2005, though. Aside from the HIAC match with Batista, what else is there? I wasn't a fan of the other Batista matches particularly, nor was I of the stuff with Flair. And this was a year in which others in WWE were producing some pretty good stuff (Eddie/Rey, Edge/Hardy, arguably Shawn/Angle, etc.). That year feels pretty glaring as far as HHH being behind the others as far as quality of work goes.

Horrible news for Kia. That's what I'm wondering too now, especially since last night I rewatched the Rumble, fell asleep, but woke up when Kharma had her showdown with Cole.

Like others, I never really stopped watching fully, but... In 1990-91, I HATED the Slaughter heel turn and Iraqi sympathizer angle. HATED it. Don't ask me why (as looking back, it's something, whenever I watch the matches with Warrior and Hogan that I appreciate now) but I hated it. It didn't push me away, but it was the start. For the next five years, I only caught things sparingly, with Hogan's win at WM9 being probably that breaking point, as I was a Hart fan. After that Slaughter heel turn, I did discover WCW more, as it was shown on a local station where I'm at, so I'm happy to say I did see some of Austin's earlier WCW stuff as it happened. But I really didn't watch frequently until 1996 upon hearing about the Hogan heel turn. By 1997, between the nWo and Austin, I frequently watched again, especially since the whole Canada-US angle appealed to us Canadians back in the day. Montreal, when it happened, never actually pushed me away, as Bret was somewhat stale even for someone like me and part of me at the time, for whatever reason, felt he would've been better off in WCW anyway (boy was I wrong). Like a lot of others, peak of watching both companies was 1998. Started fading from WCW in 1999 and gave up completely on them during the start of the Russo era. Still watched WWF fairly heavily. WCW finally getting into Canada in late 99 hardly changed things, in my mind, it was too late for them. Caught my first viewing of ECW with the TV deal with TNN, but don't remember watching much past the spring of 2000, if even then. Kept watching strongly after WCW and ECW closed down, but things started to fade in 2002, as it didn't feel the same anymore. By 2003 going into 2004 I was done with the current product and was more interesting in learning about and watching older stuff. Still heard about what things were going on, but I do somewhat regret missing things like the Eddie-Rey feud of 2005. I didn't get closely eyeing the current product again until about 2007, when I started appreciating John Cena's work some more. Heard about the DX rebirth and hated what I heard. The Benoit incident halted things sharply and I honestly wanted to give up on wrestling, albeit it lasted maybe a couple of weeks. I watched sparingly, but honestly, the PG era got me watching full time again, and I don't know if it was so much the PG stuff as it was, in my case, my wife enjoying some of the characters. We watched frequently for a while together, although she's faded away from it and I feel like I'm hitting that point again. I'm trying to stay fired up for Mania, but the two main matches, as much as I've enjoyed most of the build, involve 3 (now 4) older guys who aren't full timers and the other guy has already been on top for a while. Even if the Benoit/Eddy push in 2004 wasn't really that strong of a push, at least they gave the illusion of trying. They don't seem to be doing that anymore, but that's another story for another thread.

Just adding my two cents to the fart gimmick: The problem I do have (which the wife does agree with me) is that it's a gimmick/act that you can't do anything with. I mean, there have been lots of gimmicks like that in the past, but still. At least with a manipulative woman gimmick like Eve has, it's something you can work with. Also, in spite of having variations of said manipulative woman gimmick, Trish Stratus, Lita and even Sable will still be remembered fondly by your average WWE fan. Natalya is on pace to simply be remembered for just another comedy act.

Ditto mine. We just went to the house show on Saturday night and had a fun time. And she's got similar feelings as yours might, as when I'm watching something ECW-related, she doesn't want to be in the same room. Not a fan of blood, and that might be partly because she works in health care. Goes without saying that she prefers a lot of the PG direction of the WWE (especially seeing the kids in the crowd dressed as Cena, Rey, Punk or whoever). Likes a lot of the WWE DVDs I have that aren't ECW-related. Enjoys seeing the history stuff, including that of WCW and has even said, "If I watched back then, I probably would've watched WCW too." One of the first things she ever said when watching wrestling for the first time with me was how much she liked Jerry Lawler's punches (which made her a keeper!). Oh, and for what it's worth, she doesn't have much of a problem with the Natalya fart gimmick and the Eve hoeski act. The fart gimmick she writes off as being silly and she was actually entertained when Cena called Eve out for her actions and intentions.

Fun thread. To contribute, I skimmed through every WrestleMania card and for every Mania, I picked one worker that I thought was at least comparable to HHH on some level. Tried to also pick ones that were unconventional and was able to get a list of workers that haven't been picked either. So they are as follows: Big John Studd Hercules Junkyard Dog Bad News Brown Warlord Jim Neidhart Brian Knobbs Jerry Sags Brutus Beefcake Adam Bomb/Wrath Yokozuna Ahmed Johnson Rikishi Ken Shamrock Hardcore Holly The Godfather Test Kane Charlie Haas D-Von Dudley Shelton Benjamin Rob Van Dam Mr. Kennedy/Anderson John Morrison Kofi Kingston Jack Swagger Ezekiel Jackson I await Dylan's reply.

"My stethoscope's shot." "Better call Bischoff!"

That final quote is key. It ties back to what some of us were saying when the network was first discussed: Wrestling isn't hot right now (it's even less so than when it was mentioned) and will attract even less viewership. It's possible the idea may be dropped, but Vince is stubborn.

I've seen the DVD too and wanted to add some thoughts: - Other notable interviewees were Jericho, Punk, Cena, Rock's ex Dany Garcia (who's still a business partner of Rock's, IIRC), Vince and Pat Patterson. As I noted in another thread, everyone's comments were positive, including Punk's, which makes me wonder how much his part in being upset at the Rock at Mania is a work. Of course, Cena's part involves him being pissed at stuff Rock said from his return, hyping the Mania match. - Some of the extras that haven't been elsewhere on WWE DVDs are fun. The triple threat cage from IYH: Breakdown still holds up pretty well. Fun seeing Rock and Mankind occasionally double-teaming Shamrock before their big feud with each other and even more before their tag team happened. Rock and Flair may seem like it's put on there because it's their only meeting (and it probably was) but because it was in NC, I think the match holds up as far as continuing the Rock's move towards being a heel he became in 2003. Rock-Hogan II is not nearly as good as the first, but Rock is still fun in it. And finally, Rock's promo in Toronto the night after No Way Out may not be looked at always as his greatest ever, but I think it may be my personal favourite. If you want a more comprehensive match list of Rock's career, his previous set has that. This one, though, has a good documentary and some matches that weren't on the previous one, making it a nice complementary set to it.

It was three weeks later. http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/03.htm

For what it's worth, Punk participated in the new Rock DVD, where all the interviews used with him were positive.

Reminds me of Jim Cornette's point in the 1997 Timeline interview. (Cornette was pointing out that San Antonio was not much of a tourist attraction, therefore it was a mistake to do a stadium show there (Royal Rumble 1997). Aside from, I think, ringside, every ticket in the arena was cheaper than dirt, and they still couldn't sell the place out.)

Punk's response. Cole was promoting that fairly heavily last night on Smackdown.

Well...forget what I said about Barrett.

Late to the party, but a lot of that has to do with what videotape cost back in the day. This was a problem that wasn't exclusive to wrestling, either, as networks would re-use tape for broadcasting, especially when it had stuff on that they didn't think people would re-watch. Best example of this is the first Super Bowl, as no full footage of the game exists (it got taped over by soap operas). It's very different today, as it's a lot more affordable for both companies and individuals to document just about anything. Stampede was mentioned by you and others and it wasn't just Stampede that felt that wrath here in Canada, as there have been some hockey games (famous ones in fact) from over the years that were never kept or had to be reattained in other ways/means.

Yup. http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/jcp87.htm

Are we certain that Show will be facing Shaq and not teaming with him? Dylan (I think) made the suggestion on DVDVR about Show and Shaq vs. Barrett and Cody, which makes more sense to me, since I'm not sure one can turn either Show or Shaq heel very effectively right now. (Show can play heel, but he's pretty hot as a babyface right now and Shaq feels like the polar opposite of Mayweather as far as character goes.)

Lita's send-off was the first comparison I had in mind, as Cena implying that Eve is carrying a disease was right up there with Cryme Tyme selling Lita's yeast infection cream. I mean, part of it is their general fanbase and how "Eve is a ho" was trending on Twitter (I think they were appeasing those fans rather than the "Cena sucks" ones) but still. I imagine they'll take Eve off TV until things cool down, but I also imagine we'll hear stories of Eve walking her dog or sitting on her porch with a Rubix Cube minding her own business when some deranged Zack Ryder fan shows up and calls her a Hoeski.

I dunno. Rumble winners traditionally have been main eventers already. It definitely elevated Shawn Michaels in 1995 and Batista in 2005. Yokozuna, Benoit, and Mysterio could be on that list, too. Most of the time, though, it's guys like Steve Austin or HHH who win. And in Yokozuna's case, you can make the argument that the Rumble win was just part of his rise to the main event, in that he was going to get there anyway regardless if there was a Rumble or not. Agreed about it having already established main eventers win it far more often than not.

Yeah, I thought of Corino, but when I saw what he did post-ECW, I couldn't justify choosing him like I chose Credible. Thought about DDP as far as picking one from WCW, but even in spite of the stupid stalker angle, he managed to turn some chicken shit into chicken salad and even had a pretty good Mania match with Christian. Kanyon, on the other hand, was little more than a footnote alongside DDP in the InVasion angle (in spite of that one title win) and his most notable thing afterwards was the horrid Boy George bit. He was being used pretty solidly as WCW neared its end, too, and I don't think his career ever recovered after WCW's doors closed. Same feeling for Credible: pushed strongly in ECW, never the same afterwards (You can make the argument as to why he was pushed in ECW, of course, but point being is that it never happened again after that, which I gathered what this topic was about).

WCW: Chris Kanyon ECW: Justin Credible

NintendoLogic = Jack Pfefer

It's also in early April, so judging by the page I linked, as Bix implied above, snow is not out of the question, although it's rare.

This is what WeatherSpark has for historical temperatures on April 7 at Newark, New Jersey: http://weatherspark.com/averages/30215/4/7...y-United-States If it's moreless an average day, if they were smart, they'd make this a rare afternoon Mania. Probably won't, though, knowing Vince. A nighttime Mania on its own in the Greater New York area might lead to hilarity as it is, due to the cooling temperatures. Add in nasty weather, and the possibilities are endless.