Marty

Is it just me, or does Susan St. James (who was the guest commentator with Vince at the New York wing of WrestleMania 2) a dead-ringer for Stephanie McMahon?

Two come to mind: - Queen Sharmell with King Booker. - Lita with Edge (before Lita retired). Also Ric Flair with HHH in 2002-end of 2003 when they teamed Flair with Batista (aside from Flair's brief face turn in May 03)

He did do that interview with Powerslam Magazine a year or so ago, when he was well into his current hiatus, and did mention that the original plan heading into WrestleMania X8 was for Stephanie to run around on HHH and hook up with Jericho (rather than the lame story they wound up with). Jericho outright said that HHH vetoed it. Other than that, I can't think of any case where he's publically spoke of his encounters with HHH.

I think it's due to the mainstream effect, as mentioned already, particularly by kjh. Ventura's victory was seen as a major upset, a major story (one of the small features in Beyond The Mat), and, to some extent, seen by some people as a realization that, "maybe those guys who fake fight aren't that dumb". (Even though Cook's points about Minnesota politics are pretty valid.) On top of that, when Jesse won the election, the first thing the press refer to him as is "former pro wrestler". Not "former member of the Navy" or "former Mayor", but first things first, the wrestling part. So a lot of it is media-driven, but it was big news that a wrestler won a state election. Not saying he'll definitely get in or anything because of that, but I can understand the reasoning behind the politics factor.

Like Cox, I was about 10 or so when I started learning about steroids, both in wrestling and elsewhere (my big intro was Ben Johnson in the '88 Summer Olympics). However, I kinda see where Jingus is coming from. There's a certain range of age a kid will be where he will impersonate wrestlers for fun, but then afterwards they'll grow out of it. Maybe at the same time, or after that, they'll learn about steroids in wrestling, but as mentioned, they're past the point of emulating wrestlers. Part of the maturity process. I was 7 when I first started following it, but you could say it was age 10 I started smartening up (learning more about steroids, that it ain't real, etc.). Same thing with a lot of kids who liked wrestling that I knew growing up. Your mileage may vary, of course. But I don't think a kid who knows enough about steroids is still in an "emulating" stage, most of the time.

This is especially true since these days, at least in the WWE, the color guys aren't nearly as heelish as the days of Ventura and Heenan. Lawler's long past the point of being a heel at all (especially since he's always a face when he wrestles), I haven't heard Tazz lately, but he seems to be more analyst than all-out heel or face, and JBL's still a heel, but from what I've seen of him (which unfortunately isn't enough), he's not like Ventura or Heenan, and his best schtick is pulling out useless, sometimes comedic, facts out of nowhere (which makes me wonder if he's mocking Mike Tenay for the hell of it). This doesn't mean Ventura as the first heel commentator doesn't have some sort of impact, but it's one that's just not as strong as other cases, like entrance music. These days, though, I'd love to see them try to present someone without entrance music, for whatever reason. It'd be interesting to see how it'd affect them.

About the same thing as what killing yourself and your family has to do with wrestling, but they're having a recall election next year anyway. Of course, I've always been on the "Pete Rose for HOF" bandwagon as well, so my opinion is obviously irrelevant. Two totally opposite cases, JHawk. Rose broke a clear-written rule that's posted on every clubhouse. His fault for being a dumbass. Benoit's already enshrined, so obviously there's debate about whether a guy who's enshrined should have it taken away. However, as has been stated before, Benoit did the absolute very worst thing a human being could ever do and Meltzer gave his reasons for a recall election. Since the ballots are to people within the business, it'll be very interesting to see how that goes. My gut feeling is that even with the official word from the investigators being out before next year, that he won't get recalled. Just a hunch.

You can say that (about Ventura) about a lot of athletes who were highly touted, but whose careers floundered due to injury troubles. Really, there's no comparison of Rock and Ventura. While Rock flourished under a singles career, even if it was short, Ventura was mainly known for his tag work with Adonis (and they were a fine tag team, but compared to Rock's singles career? C'mon!). You can't play the "Who knows?" game with potential inductees. You can only judge by what happened. Comparing Ventura being forced into retirement is like comparing Ki-Jana Carter's torn ligament injury in the NFL. Would Carter have had a productive NFL career, too? Who knows?

Speaking of Kane, don't know if anyone noticed this in the past, but someone (a big Kane fan) did a Gordy List for the guy. Wound up on Bodybuilding.com's forums. I repeat: BIG Kane mark here. Some of this is funny, some not so much: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/inde...p?t-154439.html

Actually, a friend of mine already asked me if he's played by a different guy lately, believe it or not.

Didn't Meltzer report that the attendance was roughly 68,500 paid?

I'll get into these later, but I agree with Tom in that Stone Cold-era Austin can be split into two or more eras. My opinion is that it can be done in two -- pre-neck surgery/Attitude Era/Russo Era Austin and post-neck surgery/post-Attitude Era Austin. Plus, aside from Taker, and to a lesser extent, Rocky and HHH, Austin's opponents differed greatly between the two eras. Great idea, though, Loss, especially with that three-disc Austin DVD the WWE had planned on releasing this month until postponing it just recently. (I'm guessing some material/match(es) were taken out for PR reasons.)

Doesn't surprise me at all, kjh. I mean, I'm guessing in WWE-land, the Benoit tribute RAW NEVER happened, so Vince hasn't appeared on TV since his limo got blown up, right?

I haven't said my piece on this subject yet, so here goes: On one hand, I agree with Al in that a Congressional investigation will lead to nothing substantial, just based on history alone. On the other hand, unlike baseball, wrestlers are dropping like flies as a result of steroid abuse (or other cases) so there's a stronger chance already that something worthwhile will come out of this. If something beneficial does happen, it's sad that we waited long enough for a 7 year old to be smothered before research was done.

Fair enough, Jingus and JHawk, but the point I was getting at to Sek was that there actually are workplaces, besides the pro wrestling industry, where drug testing is not done. I realize there are are places where it's done, but to think that it's done everywhere except wrestling is naive. (And, yeah, Jingus, I have talked to people pretty high up in the U.S. Government who never took a drug test.)

You can tell he's never worked a job outside of the pro wrestling business. You can't even get hired to work the fryolator at McDonald's without passing a drug test. Also, most non sports jobs are not likely to be rife with roids or HGH either. I agree with you that Ryder's got his head up his ass when it comes to drug issues in other jobs, but (in this is just my case, so I can't speak for everyone here) I've worked positions from dishwasher at a golf and country club to my current position in the Canadian Government where I went through top secret clearance and I can honestly say I've never had to take a drug test in my life. I've also spoken with various government officials from the U.S. and they tell me the same thing. John's post above (the one Loss quoted) was awesome.

Same with the RAW columnist I believe.

There is a lot you can add, but my favourite Heyman con is somehow convincing Dave Meltzer in 1994 that Sabu is a better worker than Bret Hart. He pulled the wool over Meltzer's eyes there. Very cool thread, guys.

Even if that happened and everyone all sued for whatever he was making in book sales, Scott himself has fallen under the radar so much that I don't think it'd be worth everyone suing for $10 apiece.

Re: Two promotions at the same time. Does Mick Foley in 1994 (WCW, ECW) count?

Fucking sickening of JR. This is far more vile than any comments he's made since the passings. I think the funeral for Nancy and David should've been far more private than what it was (I mean, shit, do we even know the date of Chris' funeral?) and limited to only family and close friends (I noticed in some photos that Vicki Guerrero was there, for example), but JR could've at least *pretended* to be genuine (i.e. lose the cowboy hat, tell the media to get lost, etc.). Perhaps Loss was right when discussing the McMahon death angle when he said that the WWE is more upfront about their lack of genuine nature.

??? JBL?

Also, did they take out some commentary out for whatever reason from those broadcasts? I've heard those long periods of silence before (even during the era of Vince that we've been talking about) and I've often wondered that.

Or Haystacks Calhoun and Uncle Elmer, for that matter. Heck, Ray Stevens and Gorilla Monsoon passed on in their early 60s. That's not exactly the longest of lives or anything. Shit, this is getting depressing to talk about again.

Yeah, mid-to-late 70s/early 80s Vince was pretty good as an announcer (fun to listen to these days as well, since it was before they always went with a two (or more) announcer tandem). I actually always liked Vince as an interviewer as well. He never had the voice of Gene Okerlund, but he did a fine job getting talent over and making them larger than life. Might be just me, but I'm guessing once Vince Jr. took over the company and became even more entrenched in the promoting aspect than ever before, it's when he paid less attention to the finer details of his announcing work.