Dylan Waco

The Rhodes Brothers are fucking awesome, but I hate the remix theme. In fact it might be my least favorite theme ever

Damien Sandow v. Kofi Kingston Kofi had been far more tolerable since his return, as he throws fewer terrible strikes and he has a couple of really solid spots he works in. This was a pretty decent, albeit not particularly special, opener.

Actually Taker WAS farmed out to the territories, or at least SMW

To me the list isn't just about fame. It's about value to the promotion.

Jake, Rude and Jesse don't really fit all that well with what I'm trying to go for but am not articulating well. Heenan on the other hand should be in the top twenty

I love Savage, but I can't see an argument for him above Andre. In terms of how I would define a star I would put him safely behind Bruno, Austin and as much as I hate to admit it, The Rock as well. This is really tentative, and I could be persuaded otherwise, but my tentative WWE depth chart in terms of overall value to the promotion/stardom/whatever the fuck term you want to use would be something like this: 1. Hogan 2. Austin 3. Bruno (I could possibly be convinced to flip Bruno and Austin) 4. Andre (I could see arguments for Andre higher than Bruno and Austin on an overall list not exclusive to WWE) 5. The Rock 6. Savage 7. Cena 8. Taker 9. Backlund (To me maybe the hardest guy to rate and I have the least confidence in his placement) 10. Piper 11. Foley 12. HHH 13. Michaels 14. Bret 15. Misterio 16. Morales 17. Graham 18. Orndorff 19. Slaughter 20. Dibiase This is off the cuff without looking at roster list and it's possible I'm forgetting guys that deserve inclusion. There are other guys like Angle, Eddie, Batista, Edge, Jeff Hardy, Valentine, Patera, and others who I could see on that latter portion of this list. Maybe if I get bored I could try and draw it further.

Undertaker is strange because much of his career - even when he was basically an active member of the roster at all times - has been spent as a "special attraction" type. He's a closer comparison to Andre then he is to anyone who was an ace for any length of time, though I don't think he is an Andre level star. Over at Classics Steve Yohe is organizing a top 100 of all time which is supposed to be based heavily on over all value/stardom, with drawing power of course being the key element. Taker is someone who is likely to make my list, and I am inclined to put him ahead of people like HHH, Shawn and Foley even though you could argue that all three of those guys had more value to the company at their absolute peak than he did (in the case of Shawn I think it's highly, highly debatable or it is at least debatable how much value that argument really has). But I admit that comparing him next to Backlund or Savage is much tougher (my inclination is to put him behind Savage, but ahead of Bob).

Hogan is easily the bigger star, but in the interest of steering this to a realm that is less mocking in tone, I do think Taker is underrated as a star by some. Of the non-fans I know who I can occasional con into going to watch a PPV at a sports bar with me and/or discuss wrestling around in vague ways by far the most common question is "is Taker still around?" or "when is Taker coming out."

Good stuff clown. I was glad my questions made the cut

This is probably true to an extent, but in my case Steamer has been slowly losing some luster for the last ten years.

Nishimura has an excellent forearm/uppercut strike

I voted on instinct, which strangely is now Martel. I think he was more sympathetic and dynamic than Tito and showed more fire than Steamboat, though you could argue that Steamboat was more sympathetic and dynamic than Martel and that Tito showed fire better than either of them.

Tajiri v. Osamu Nishimura - MUGA 2/3 Falls 9/23/07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MovHA-5tdfI Man I fucking loved this. I have no memory of having seen this before, which is odd because I was big on MUGA and think the Nishimura v. Fujinami match from there is one of the best matches in Japan from the post-AJPW split era. Anyhow this was sort of a "when worlds collide" match as you have the traditionalist approach of Nishimura v. Tajiri. Tajiri at this point was basically an Americanized wrestler, who's schtick was effectively a stereotypical depiction of the "sneaky Japanese," so in a sense this would be like if the FBI wrestled Bruno Sammartino and Dominic Denucci on a WWF house show in 1986. What was genius about this match is that they really didn't go to a completely over the top presentation with Tajiri until the very end. Up until that point there ere flashes - little smirks from Tajiri, the slow crouching stance, some of his mocking gestures - but as a whole this was a straight wrestling match in the MUGA sense. Tajiri targeted the arm with a variety of holds including hammerlocks, wristlocks, various armbars and of course kicks to the wounded wing. Nish fought back by targetting the leg with vicious kicks and forearms. This is how the match was worked from beginning to end. You could argue some of the holds weren't super tight, but in terms of building to a pay off and developing body part work this was great stuff. I loved ending to the first fall which I thought was a subtle way of Tajiri getting a duke because of the arm work. I also really loved the eventual attack on Tajiri's leg as it came across as an almost desperate explosion, starting as a hope spot and building to Tajiri In Peril. Nishimura's bombs away to the leg was fucking awesome, as was Tajiri's ill timed tarantula being his downfall. The misting worked more than usual because it felt out of place for MUGA and the back and fourth strikes to the injured body parts was as good a variation of that trope as you will see. The finish itself may have been overbooked, but it paid off everything the match had built to. This was awesome wrestling.

Welcome! That is an easy fix. Go to the Options button on the right hand side of the screen and click it. A drop down menu picks up and click on "switch to standard."

I think Cena would be exactly where he is now - the ace in New York. I also think this depends on how far back in the territory era we are talking. For example I think someone like Cesaro could have been a traveling NWA champion in the 60's. Not sure about the late 70's/early 80's.

A couple of questions.... - He's been used as a sort of showcase performer on NXT and Main Event, getting lots of in ring time on both shows and producing some excellent matches along the way. As a guy with his amount of talent does he enjoy those opportunities more, or the chance to be involved in storylines that appear on Raw and Smackdown but maybe don't get as much time (for example the current one with The Real Americans v.Los Matadores). - Does Cesaro see himself as a sort of "heir" to other European wrestlers like Finlay and Regal who were known as tough guys, who worked snug and with a lot of nuance (okay maybe that part is too much) and who could work in a bunch of different roles successfully, or does he seem himself as someone more closely connected to the modern indie scene...or both?

2001 WCW is vastly better than current TNA, particularly if we are talking in ring alone. Not even close really.

I don't hate him per se, but his rep took a massive hit with me after the NJPW set where he was more than content to ruin otherwise good matches with the worst sort of "going through the motions" routine and/or not doing anything if the situation called for it. Watching old and out of shape Andre out work him was one of the most absurd examples of him being a lazy fuck I've ever seen, but then he'd do something like really push Brody into something semi-watchable and win me back from completely falling over the cliff into abject hatred of him. I find him much better in tags in the 80's FWIW. Childs says his older stuff ages better and I'm willing to believe that, but I'm not sure I'm willing to watch the matches to confirm it.

Bret Hart fetishism always has negative consequences on this board

Actually now that I think about it Wiskowski/Debeers had a fucking AWESOME body slam, even better than Finlays

Finlay has an awesome body slam. Probably the only guy I can think of who had a body slam that I could buy as a finish.

I can help you out with this if you're ever inclined to watch an epic Blackwell comp. I did a Blackwell in the AWA 1980-85 set some time ago. Not making the podcast was just bad luck, unfortunately. I would add here that if you are a fan of the Blackwell stuff that made the set, it would be a great idea to let Khawk help you out

Another thing to remember is that wrestling in general was hot at that point in Europe. WCW was doing terrible numbers stateside at that point, but the Euro tours always did well.

I don't think the Farmer list is awful or without value, but the problem is that a guy like Sid probably does very well on that metric. IN fact I was toying with a Sid to Edge comp recently to show the danger with relying to heavily on it

I think Choshu is a better worker and I am actually struggling to think of any reason why Bret would be considered near his level as a draw. I'm all for revisionism, but that's a case that I would have to see made in great detail in order to believe it.