Dylan Waco

Tony St. Clair I have not seen THAT much St. Clair. But I did think he was really good working with Funk when I watched there match from 93 recently and I can recall other matches where I thought he added things that helped the match a great deal. I would want to watch more St. Clair to say for sure, but I would certainly lean toward him. Mark Rocco Rocco has aged poorly for me, but here's the thing - he was still better than HHH. Still moved around the ring sharply, could deliver neat tricks of the trade in the right setting, worked tighter than HHH, et. I still like that one DK match a lot, which is rare for a DK match. If I was judging purely based on Black Tiger I might take HHH, but Rocco's WoS stuff is enough to put him above Trip. Steve Wright Another guy I would need to watch more of BUT this is a guy that had a match I fucking loved with Tiger Mask. When has HHH ever had a match like that with a comparably inferior wrestler? Offhand I'm not sure if HHH has a single match that would make my top 30 in WWE history despite having huge advantages and tons of opportunities. The one match I would even consider is a match I love primarily because of the finish and the work of is opponent. I can't remember where I had Wright v. TM for the NJPW Set but it was near the top 30. And that is all Wright being the man. Cien Caras Canek Rayo de Jalisco, Jr. Blue Demon, Jr. Would need to watch more of all of them. I like Canek a fair amount and think Caras is sort of the anti-HHH (well maybe Aguayo would be a better pick) in that he was a guy panned as a shit wrestler, which leads to arguments that he really wasn't that big of a draw by Meltzerian disciples, whereas Trip is a guy who has a peak people remember fondly, and some people pretend he was a huge draw because of when his peak was. I have seen enough Caras to think he was competent though. Really the point is that I need to see more lucha (which is what I mostly watch as is these days). Nobuhiko Takada I am willing to say Takada was better, but I really don't think it's by a large margin. I really hated most of Takada's junior stuff on the NJPW set. When you hid him in tag matches he was far better. I have not watched much of the UWFI in a long time, but I was never as big a fan of him there as some others. Definitely came across as a lazy turd a lot of the times and I don't think he was a very convincing wrestler for a guy who was working a "shooter" gimmick or whatever the fuck. Minoru Suzuki He certainly does "menacing facial expressions" better than HHH. Posturing is better than HHH too. Has more interesting offense. I would not want to watch a career retrospective, but you can cherry pick matches of his from year to year that are enjoyable and where he adds a lot to the match. I would rather take a chance on a Suzuki match than a HHH match. Minoru Tanaka Everyone thought he was the shit during the dark years where the wrestling World was falling apart. I have not thought much about him or watched him much in close to a decade. I cannot imagine thinking he was worse than HHH though. Koji Kanemoto I can't think of a single thing HHH does half as good. Kanemoto is a better veteran douche, better offense, sells better, better pacing, better ring movements, more good matches, more good matches against variety of opponents, better average match, takes better bumps, better facial expressions, better match in mid-90's WCW with Alex Wright. By every metric he is better. Dick Vriji Would need to see more, as I honestly can't recall seeing much. I know I have seen at least one match from RINGS, probably more.

Ron Killings I almost feel morally obligated to take R-Truth since I think his current gimmick is a Vince/Trip vision of how all black males act brought to life. I actually think Truth's minstrel show gimmick is sort of perversely entertaining and embarrassing in the same way early DX skits were, but that's besides the point. His TNA character/mic work smokes anything HHH has ever done. In the ring? Well I struggle to think of things Truth was involved in that I really liked. I think he's a pretty mediocre wrestler, nor more or less talented than HHH perhaps, but even on the off chances when he got paired with a guy who could theoretically guide him to something really good I don't remember getting anything really good. Over all I might take Truth if for no other reason than because him trying to pass the mic to Vince for a "What's Up?" is one of the five funniest things I've ever seen in wrestling. But in the ring I have to go Trip. Terry Taylor Taylor was a blind, lifeless vacuum, who has been overrated by peers and a certain section of the smark community so he is a good comparison to Trip. I also don't think it's a favorable one. Taylor has had some lengthy matches that will put you to sleep, but none that make you want to die inside the way a bad lengthy Trip match does. More to the point, Taylor could have a lengthy match with someone like Flair that didn't feel like an ego exercise. I honestly can't imagine HHH going twenty minutes with the Blue Blazer in MSG and having an interesting compelling match. He'd be too pissed he was on first for starters, but secondly I don't think he had the tools. Which is really the point - Taylor had more tools. He didn't always apply them but unlike HHH he wasn't a one trick pony that had to rely purely on bumps to overcome the fact that he was a boring fuck. I also think the Taylor Mad Man was a much more interesting version of Jean Paul Lesveque character than was Jean Paul Lesveque. Plus Taylor had the greatest WCW match of all time according to one of the great internet wrestling fans in history. Plowboy Frazier No clue when the last time I saw a Plowboy Frazier match was. No way I could dream of being fair here. Greg Gagne This isn't close, it's Greg in an epic ass beating. This is basically a contest between guy most wrongly accused of benefiting from nepotism and guy most rightly accused of benefiting from nepotism. The better head to head comparison would be Zbyszko but I assume every one knows that Larry Z is several thousand times better than HHH so that isn't on the table. You can make criticisms of Greg. He moved around the ring strangely at times. His punches could look really bad at times. His fired up posturing looks really dated with 2012 eyes. But the guy could work. He was actually a pretty excellent tag worker to be frank and the High Flyers were bigger stars on their own that meant more to business in the AWA than HHH ever was in the WWE and no I'm not kidding. Was very effective as both a FIP and a hot tag. Had a badass fucking leg lock that he would do with a bridge which is one of my favorite random moves any 80's dude does. Was not as good a singles worker, but was still better than HHH. I honestly don't think HHH would have had matches nearly as good with Hennig, Slaughter or even Pat Tanaka as what Greg had in the AWA, because HHH needed tricks and "big time feel!" to get him through virtually every really goo match he was ever in. Honestly I can't think of HHH ever doing anything as boss as Greg diving onto Adnan's arm in the Cage. John Nord Hmm. Nord was a better working Brody, but with about one tenth the charisma and presence of the original. HHH was a worse working Jimmy Garvin, but with about one tenth the charisma and presence of the original. I will say that HHH's strengths are bumping and bleeding and while he might bleed better than Nord no way in hell he bumps better. Nord was kind of a bump freak for a guy that big. On the other hand I can't think of any really good Nord match and the motherfucker could botch some simple ass spots if he really got moving. If someone could point me to a good string of Nord matches I could be convinced to go with him since he made a more convincing Viking Royal. Ted Dibiase Jr. Tough because Dibiase feels like a guy who may eventually put the pieces together. I have seen performances from him in the last couple of years where he seemed to be on the right track, but he is young and not really being put in a position to learn much, so who knows. I can't really advocate for him over HHH at this point, but it's more of an "incomplete" than a "failure." Cody Rhodes This is another tough one. I actually think Cody has a lot of the pitfalls of HHH. They both can be boring as piss in a match and struggle to fill times. Cody has better "neat spots" and I think in a tv setting at least is FAR more likely to have a nifty performance, though like HHH I think that is largely dependent on his opponent guiding him. HHH doesn't do anything as stupid as Cody's moonsault press as heel transition move spot, nor was any HHH rambling promo as embarrassingly shitty as face mask/comic book villian Cody promos which are literally my least favorite promos in the history of wrestling. Cody has slid into a spot semi-similar to HHH in the sense that he has worked the fringes of the main event and seems competent though not exemplary in that spot. Cody as traditional mid-carder is hit and miss, but more hits than HHH. Cody by a hair. Chavo Guerrero Jr. This isn't close. I think Chavo is really underrated by a lot of people. He was not as flashy or as smooth or as dynamic as his relatives, but I think he was/is better than Hector and better than Hector definitely makes you better than HHH. Really good utility guy who could be used all over cards against all sorts of people. Granted he couldn't carry the awful Sin Cara, but I blame HHH because Mistico was his project. One of Rey's better opponents, had a run in 08 ECW that was really awesome, excelled in tags, can work babyface or heel effectively, sells well, bumps very well, has good offense, et. Another guy who was a much better tv match wrestler than HHH too. Harry Smith I actually think Smith is very talented, but he clearly hasn't put it all together yet and I can't see how you can rate a guy like him over HHH. I almost wish he would go to Europe or somewhere where he could use his catch stuff more in his matches. Justin Credible Ah the other top heel of 2000, who could give long crowd killing promos and turned a shit load of my friends against wrestling forever. I actually think I have a more visceral hatred for Credible from that particular era, but I find it hard to argue that HHH was better. Credible was an even better bumper than HHH. His series against Mikey and Lynn were really good. I can't see anyway HHH could have had the sort of matches Credible had with Oulette and Sasuke even if I don't like those matches as much as others. Strangely Credible worked his prime in ECW and was less reliant on gimmicks and props in his matches than HHH. I almost wish I could conceive of an argument for HHH here but I can't

Not exactly true. I remember tons of matches being uploaded during this time, fort months, and matches being talked bout. It was because of this poll that I basically catch up the missing years of WWF peak (00 & 01), and most every big match from the following years. For instance I changed my mind about The Rock thanks to this poll, as I couldn't stand his matches back in 98/99. Bolded words

I know Bret/Davey v. New Foundation was a match I liked a lot during the SC polling. Not sure if this is the right one.

Totally agree with this.

Blackwell and Adnan were REALLLYYYY hated in the AWA. I have seen wrestling "riots" and most of them are overrated affairs with some scuffling and fans throwing shit. I have seen a riot involving Blackwell and Adnan where the fans are literally running up to them and hitting them as hard as they can in the face. Both guys maintained a shocking degree of heat in the AWA and were incredibly hated. Heenan is a great pick too. I actually think the FBI is one of the most viscerally hated acts of the 90's. Not the J.T. version which I love and was "lol" heat, but the Tommy Rich version, which got some unbelievable responses from crowds. Most of the time ECW crowds came across as either playing along and/or picking and choosing but my God did they hate Tommy Rich, particularly in the small Southern towns and big Northeast towns. The fucking Queens crowd could not stand him. Amusingly the act of Southerners, with Little Guido working a Thomas Sowell gimmick for legitimacy, were trolling largely Italian crowds to chant "where's my pizza" at them while they mocked their culture. The Dudleys got some great reactions to, but that was for doing shit like calling peoples mothers whores.

The Rock is working the exact same act from the Attitude Era, and it is getting over with the live crowds for the most part, but it is evident that smart fans and even some non-hardcores find a lot of it lame. Times have changed and the Rock's schtick hasn't

There will never be a time when we are completely ready. Half the people on this forum don't really watch the modern product. By the time the 80s/90s are done it will be time to re-explore the 00's and possibly even part of the 10's (that felt strange to type) even for those of us who have been watching it. This is not to say that I would advocate that now is the BEST time to do re-do this. I would prefer it be done after the 90's yearbooks are complete and after 80's sets are done for the AWA and Lucha. Portland would be ideal too, but at least the Buddy Rose Set exists. And again I would like to see a lot more discussion of European candidates. Honestly if we were to run this poll again I would want to make a lot of changes. I personally would like to see it open to everyone, but with a minimum participation requirement of some sort so that we don't just have people running in and dropping list based on twenty year old memories, without contributing to any of the discussion, debate, footage, et. 2006 SC was the perfect storm for a lot of reasons for at initial list, but it was a list with a lot of voters voting entirely based on memories/rep and very little re-examination of opinions/"received wisdom of wrestling Gods."

Casas v. Panther pro-shot is up and it really makes me have to think about my top match which I had thought was pretty solid. First and Second falls are complete and a lot more intense on this shot. Plus it has the post-match with Casas douchebaggery turned up to 11

This would be fun to do again but I would want the process to be a bit different so that Joshi and Lucha wouldn't get screwed. I'm not a Joshi fan at this point in my life, but there are a bunch of Joshi workers I would consider and would be willing to rewatch and discuss (which is really the key) for the purposes of a project like that. Having said that - and speaking as someone who fell into this camp during the first vote - the "I don't get Lucha" crowd would worry me far more than anything else. I also would want to see European guys get discussed more. And of course Buddy Rose

Oh I think we might see another boom - but I think if we do it will coincide with a drastic change in the way wrestling is presented, marketed and distributed.

I think this is indisputably true and don't want to come across like I think it is irrelevant. Having said that, it is obvious that the WWE is popular with kids - it is not really popular with adults anymore. This could be changed with booking and actually getting behind a real star. But I honestly believe the changes in the business AND the changes in the technology make it highly unlikely that we will ever see a boom of the sorts in previous times even if the booking was the best in the history of wrestling. At least not a boom that will be measurable in huge ppv buys/ratings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ3LbUtta40 Steamboat/Santana v. Valentine/Beefcake That would be my pick offhand for the best tag match in WWE/F history Hardyz v. MNM - Royal Rumble 2007 This is another one that merits a serious look

It's not as good as either of the Michaels and Ramon Ladder matches, but other than that it is my favorite Ladder Match in WWE history too. The whole dynamic of that match was really cool as you had the grizzled vets in Regal/Taylor who were "afraid" to climb the ladders but loved to fuck people up, MNM and the Hardyz who were both guest entrants and both sort of presented as "all time great" tag team/special attraction types and London/Kendrick trying to survive against a bunch of all timers, with the deck stacked, in a violent, insane war.

George Steele Man I fucking hate Steele. I suppose that I should appreciate him in the sense that the guy got over his gimmick really well, but I've never seen a Steele match that I thought was any good. I think Savage worked some fun spots around his existence once, but that's it. Barry Horowitz Barry by a mile. I own Bix's Horowitz comp and it is a lot of fun. Lots of short matches, but he managed to make them all at least somewhat different. The losing streak Jack Hart gimmick was a lot better than HHH's streak of winning every match even when he shouldn't. When Horowitz got more time to work he could really have an excellent match. Barry could carry turds like Scott Putski, work on Owen's level when squared off with him and have a sub-five minute match with Mike Jackson in Florida that is good enough to make an 80's Set. Of course he's known mostly as a jobber but he was a fun offensive wrestler ad added a lot of value there. There is also the story Phil likes to tell of APW bringing in Horowitz to work Donovan Morgan and then eating him alive before losing on a banana peel finish which means Barry might even be better at burying up and coming stars than HHH. Manny Fernandez I am not Rob Naylor, but Manny Fernandez is pretty fucking awesome. Great brawler, heavy hitter and bleeder, surprisingly cool highspots that always feel somewhat unexpected. Awesome delusional wrestling promo guy as well. Manny is one of those guys like Sabu or Abby who I will watch against just about anyone because something fun or violent or explosive is almost guaranteed to happen. Unlike HHH who dilutes what little talent he has by spreading it around excessively long matches, Manny was a burst of energy type guy who would maximize his (usually) much shorter matches. I can see no argument for HHH at all here. Barry Darsow Darsow might be the most lateral guy to HHH I've seen listed so far. Both guys are pretty boring when left to their own devices, but can turn it up in the right situations against the right guys. Darsow's "right situation" was as a tag worker relying on superior partners to help build the heat of the matches. HHH's "right situation" was against the most over guys in wrestling, at the height of their popularity, milking the moment. I enjoyed the Hogpen match v. Henry Godwin on last watch more than I would have guessed, but it's not as good as the Blacktop Bully v. Dustin King of The Road match. Also not sure HHH has the diversity of facial expressions needed to make the Repo Man gimmick work, though undeserving, sneak, who steals hard earned labor value of better men while they are busy working is a gimmick that better suited HHH. Still I see this as a battle between exact equals. Tatanka This is one where I would really have to go back and watch an era of WWF I really don't want to go back and watch. I do remember thinking Tatanka as a heel was a really fun turn and Tatanka's change in body language and expressions from face to heel was really great. Also his random return was just the sort of random return you want out of a wrestler as he was now an old vet running around stiffing people. I seem to recall him being really impressive during that run in both tags and singles. I have not watched any Chris Chavis indy work (that I can recall anyway). I would lean toward Tatanka, mainly because he never gave me anything as terrible as Evolution era Trip. CW Anderson I am a pretty big fan of CW so I will take him here. When you watch all the ECW, C.W. really comes across as the guy most screwed by circumstance. He really could have been working more meaningful matches right from the jump, but instead was stuck teaming with Billy Wiles and working a string of matches v. Roadkill/Doring that were all fun but basically identical. When they moved him up he immediately showed he could hang and had some really good performances. One of the best punches in wrestling, great facial expressions, excellent and underrated bumper, great versatility. Watching him live a few times on random indies years later he still had all the same tools. He didn't get many chances and came around at the wrong time, but with the chances he got he never disappointed. Sort of the anti-thesis of HHH. Perry Saturn Oh this is kind of a tough one. Saturn is one of those guys who everyone loved in the 90's, but the vast majority of his work doesn't hold up. For spot machines the guy really wasn't that impressive outside of the period where he was in a cast and showing up to do a couple of needlessly insane spots a match. I suspect his best run was WCW and I do not have terribly fond memories of that. I would say HHH's 2000 was better than any year Saturn had, though Saturn on average was likely to do at least one interesting spot a match, whereas there were many HHH matches were nothing interesting would happen. Still I have to go with HHH here. Tom Zenk Already covered. Al Snow Snow is a guy who looked like he was on a path to being one of the best in the World in 95. Then SMW went out of business and he just plummeted. Seriously I don't think I've ever seen a guy decline more sharply than Snow as he quickly became a parody. He rebounded some with the Head gimmick which was at least interesting, though there are few matches from that era that really stand out. SMW Snow is better than anything HHH ever did in his career, but it was a really short run. I would maybe lean SLIGHTLY toward HHH here, because mediocre Snow is up there with mediocre HHH and HHH had more good matches. Dave Taylor Taylor is one of those guys who does not have a ton of in your face obvious great matches, but man he was good at all the little things I look for in a wrestler. Tight holds, stiff strikes, good range of expressions/body language, could come across as a tough guy or a preening pussy depending on the situation, et. I really wish EricR would do the complete and accurate on Taylor he keeps threatening to do because I really think some cool stuff could be over turned. I would take Taylor over HHH on the strength of fundamentals and the fact that I can't recall a bad Taylor performance. But it would be nice to have some matches to point to. Paul Burchill Not really a Burchill fan. In a year where Christian had great long matches with every scrub/undercard guy named to man, he had good matches with Burchill but they were the least of his good matches. That's kind of Burchill's high point to me. HHH has a better high point than that. Van Hammer "Pimp me some Van Hammer?" No. Though I thought he brought about as much to his brawl with Foley as HHH did. Jimmy Del Rey I really, really like Jimmy Del Ray. I thought as a jobber Jim Backlund was a lot of fun. Crazy bumper, with an awesome sleaze bag look. The Gigolo character fit him about as well as any character has ever fit anyone. He was so great in the Bodies and that incarnation was a lot better than the original version. Really had the right combo of bruising tough guy spots, stooging, and big time athleticism that you needed to make an act like that work. Hell I even liked his run as bizarro Jimmy Graffiti jobber in WCW Nitro era. The only real argument for HHH is that Del Ray's best stuff was in tags and he didn't really get a chance to shine much in singles. But that is sort of a back door argument to make a case for a worker that is inferior by every other metric. Tony Mamaluke Man I miss Mamaluke. Little guys who take crippling and utterly insane bumps is my second favorite thing in wrestling. My favorite is fat guys who do crazy athletic/highspots. I would guess that Mamaluke has broken more guardrails with his shins than any wrestler in history. That has to count for something right? Yes he was in the third best incarnation of the FBI, but still those bumps. He didn't really have a lot of meat to his career, but when he was so much better than HHH at the one thing HHH was actually consistently good at.... Damien 666 I would really need to watch more of his work. Watching him I never thought he was a great wrestler and thought his act was pretty weak. On the other hand miming is not easy. And I seem to recall him being in one or two brawls I liked a lot.

Where do you teach? I live three doors away from my daughters school. I also work around kids. Rarely a day goes by I don't see a kid in WWE shirt and/or over hear one talking about wrestling. But I live in South Carolina. Perhaps this is a wrestling bubble?

They all love Santino. Sheamus and R-Truth were talked up. Cena is a favorite. I thought it was notable that Punk wasn't mentioned at all and almost never is by her neighborhood friends other. They are all scared to death of Mark Henry, but they may be Emma's influence

That's fine if WWE wants to use YouTube or other methods of online viewing to make it more convenient for people to watch. But you need to make money off of those types of viewers. The best way to do that is to try and turn them into live viewers. That audience is much more valuable if it's a live-viewing audience. Maybe the Oscars is a bad example, but take any show. Mad Men, Walking Dead, American Idol, whatever. What's the incentive to watch those shows live? The main one is the ability to share that live experience with others and experience the buzz of something that is happening NOW. If you don't care about any of that, then you might as well just pirate the show online or DVR it. That's fine from the consumer point of view, but a problem if you're the company trying to make a buck. I understand that you want to turn these people into live viewers and that should be a goal, but the reality is that it is going to become increasingly difficult. Even regular tv shows have advantages in that they are seasonal so the chances of fan burnout are drastically reduced. In general I think the changes technology has had on wrestling are wildly understated by "smart" fans who like to pretend that if the booking was Mid-South quality the WWE would be drawing 5.0 ratings, 2.0 ppv buyrates and record setting live attendance figures. I just don't see anyway that is true. I also don't think the tech changes are the whole problem, but I think they are an unexplored factor that combines with the bad booking, inability/unwillingness to create and get behind new stars, inability to stay "cool" by capitalizing on "hip" culture in the now, et. I honestly think the WWE is going to have to figure out a way to monetize internet viewership. I have no clue how the fuck they do this, but I think it is going to become a necessity unless they drastically change the number of shows they run a year.

Three things 1. I don't believe TV ratings don't matter NOW and they probably will always matter to some degree. What I do think is that the technological changes no longer make it the best indicator of how much something is watched week-to-week. Even among my non-hardcore wrestling fans I know several who watch Smackdown every week - on youtube. They have things to do on Friday nights and they don't watch it live, but watch every second that airs. I imagine this is fairly common behavior and not isolated to just my circle of friends. 2. Wrestling business models have changed several times in past which we discussed on the show. My point is more or less that the model is in the middle of shifting now and that the focus on tv ratings above all else hurts their ability to be innovators/try to monetize other different avenues. More importantly it actually hurts their tv ratings as their obsession with each week, allows them to ignore the big picture. Rather than seeing tv ratings as an investment to building a bigger and better product, it often seems that they see it as the be all and end all. 3. Some of your other points I agree with. I mean I think it is totally unreasonable to compare Raw to the Oscar's, because the Oscar's are once a year and Raw is 52 times a year. But I do think a big problem is that the WWE does not have the loyalty to brand you need to be a truly dynamic company. On the other hand on my daughters field trip last week EVERY SINGLE KID was talking about WWE, so they are doing something right in terms of building a new base of support.

Tajiri and Crazy basically had two matches. They had their pure workrate dance exchange match was really awesome when they were hitting all cylinders and even occasionally included some neat inter-match psychology. Then they had their wild brawls which were fucking awesome and include two matches that I would probably have in my personal all time ECW top five. Guido and Tajiri had similar themes that they worked, but they had much more variety to their matches in that you never really knew what the focus was going to be, how it was going to be built, what changes you could expect, et.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2NgDXy7Hi4 Tajiri v. Billy Kidman - Backlash 02 This was a really, really good match despite Kidman's unwillingness to sell the back work that Tajiri put in and the dreaded Kidman powerbomb reversal spot. This had some fun deviations from norm, with Tajiri working a really tight control segment and Kidman coming back. Kidman is a poor man's Rey, but you don't need the real thing to make this work as Tajiri was on point. This had some great shit including Tajiri doing Goldust slide out the ring and hit your opponent spot, but of course mixing it up and throwing an insane head kick instead. Kidman actually counters the first tarantula attempt, but Tajiri cuts him off and hits a second one which fit with the theme of Tajiri targetting his back. Then Tajiri busts out with an elbow drop, downward heel kick and a double stomp to Tajiri's back which I thought was a really neat and un-Tajiri like combo. Cut off and hope spots in this were really cool to, including Tajiri taking this awesome car crash bump off of a dropkick on his rewind elbow attempt and Kidman dying on a missed shooting star. Tajiri was really excellent at selling the shock of not getting the fall off the subsequent head kick and the finish with Tajiri misting Kidman on a powerbomb attempt and pinning him was perfectly executed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bhWI-vX30s...feature=related Tajiri v. Rhyno - Unforgiven 2001 My God the bump Tajiri took for the gore on the Raw stage to set this up was totally ridiculous. This was about the most ECWish match ever as it was less than five minutes from bell to bell, but jam packed with cool shit. They even tease an ECW staple violence against women spot which ends up with Rhyno running full speed into a Tajiri head kick. I had forgotten that Rhyno was a pretty good base, basically the predecessor to Michael Elgin, and Tajiri is pretty good using him as tool to get in his spots. Very fun sprint. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB0g5sCHq3w...feature=related Tajiri v. Jamie Noble God damn another really sweet balls out sprint. It is ridiculous how shitty modern "spot" wrestling is compared to this as here both guys actually take time to put over the impact of the moves and have some hint of body language and character that they are contributing as well. This is almost exactly five minutes long, they did a ton, and none of it felt like over kill. They even found a really unique way to set up the tarantula spot and Noble diving head first into that back kick was a fucking insane finish. This was aces. Tajiri v. Kid Kash v. Simon Diamond - ECW 10/17/99 Man Tajiri's back elbows on Kash looked brutal as fuck here. Tajiri being annoyed by Simon's interference in his beatdown of Kash and just getting up and stiffing the shit out of him was awesome. Simon actually hits a decent looking plancha on Tajiri but takes a bunch of time to pose and ends up getting killed by a tope con hilo from Kash. Kash with a nice springboard missle dropkick for a nearfall. Tajiri with a badass twisting submission on Kash who then gets eliminated by Diamond who blocks his moonsault attempt with a reverse DDT. Tajiri goes to shake Diamond's hand and then kicks the shit out of him. Really loved the Diamond powerbomb/floatover pinning combo spot. Really fun sequence with Diamond pointing to his head only after a nut shot only for Tajiri to do the same thing to him. Tajiri wins with the brainbuster. I liked this a lot, but it was short. Tajiri/Super Nova v. FBI - 12/27/98 Holy shit the pre-match is great as the whole FBI is out including Rich, Big Guido, and Sal E. Rich gets them fired up and then Smothers adds fuel to the fire on the mic. Tajiri is mocking Rich for having round eyes which is hilariously awesome and Guido is screaming at the crowd. Guido starts to do the Smothers hand clap to warm the crowd gimmick and Tajiri stops it by leaning over and slapping the canvas. Opening mat exchange was fun. Tajiri gets slapped to shit which he sells great. He comes back with some kicks including a springboard enziguri and is still selling the slap. Hell he is selling the slap even after the next exchange. Guido bails to the floor and crowd starts chanting faggot so Smothers rips off his shirt in anger and then starts simulating double fisting cocks. Guido gets in the ring and starts screaming at Tajiri. Tajiri just looks at him so Guido starts screaming at him in obviously fake Japanese gibberish which was hilarious. Smothers trips Tajiri coming off the ropes but Guido misses an elbow drop and Tajiri ends up hitting a tope con hilo onto both of them for a huge pop. They do an elaborate sequence that ends with Tajiri hitting a dropkick to the leg and then a knee bar. Smothers runs in and they start double teaming Tajiri which brings out Nova. God damn does Nova's early offense suck. They recover pretty quick due to the bumping of the FBI as they take everything really well. Ends up being Tajiri and Guido alone again and Tajiri kills him with a brainbuster. This had to be one of Tajiri's first matches in ECW which may be why they paired him off with Nova here on the impromptu tag. As much as I don't like that "run-in and change match from singles to tag" staple of ECW, I do love the FBI and I do love Tajiri and this is a unique look at both. Tajiri/Mikey Whipwreck v. FBI - ECW TV 9/1/00 Opening segment with Guido and Tajiri is really great as they do two standoff spots that are actually entertaining, a great Fujiwara spot, et. Then Mamaluke comes in and just flies around bumping like crazy, taking nasty double teams and kicks to the head, et. This is the sort of match where a lightning pace is not a hindrance because both teams do such a good job of hitting their shit cleanly and they actually work control segments on top of that. Mikey getting kicked in the face and then eating a nasty triple rotation DDT from Mamaluke was really great. Mikey's stunner is a move that I usually think looks sort of stupid but the FBI take it so well here. This is really short, but almost a picture perfect sprint. Everything you would want out of these two teams, a clean finish, no interference, and a super hot crowd.

In Toronto for WrestleReunion. Also Vader has looked good in every one of his comeback matches. I will expect he and Necro will have a sub-ten minute brawl that will effectively be a recreation of Vader v. Foley matches. I also would be shocked if it was less than good.

Big John Studd Studd was pretty terrible. I'm not a fan of HHH but he is good at certain things. He runs the ropes well, in his best days he was very good bumper, he could and would bleed, at his best he can milk near falls for big "moments." Studd at trouble walking around at times. Hercules You know I feel like Herc is probably better, but I can't formulate an argument one way or the other because I haven't watched Herc in years. Junkyard Dog HHH was the better worker, but JYD was not as abysmal as he is made out to be. As a star this isn't close and no matter what sort of new school numerology Meltzer wants to pull out of his ass, JYD was the bigger star. Bad News Brown Bad News was always better in theory to me than in practice. He definitely had the look and gave off an asskicker aura but he felt really flat in the ring. People who saw him in Stampede tend to think he was incredible, but who knows for sure. Warlord This is one roided guy that HHH was safely better than in every respect. Jim Neidhart I liked Neidhart enough to have to think about this. In some ways I thought he carried the Hart Foundation as he was the personality of the team and his big spots were visually impressive for a guy his size to the point where as a kid I thought he was the "cooler" of the two in the ring also. Could get real chinlocky real fast, but I would rather a guy be hidden in a tag team that can play to his strengths than dominate a show for years politically with all the booking exposing his weaknesses. HHH make a better "marry into the business" choice at least. I am actually really torn here. I'll lean HHH I guess but I could be convinced otherwise. Brian Knobbs Jerry Sags As a package I have no problem saying they were better. Nasty's were not unlike HHH in that they were reportedly difficult, stuck up pricks backstage who retained employment through friendship with powerful people. They were also remarkably unprofessional in the ring, though unlike HHH their unprofessional behavior added to their matches. Really when you compare HHH burying Booker T at Mania after months of watermelon/fried chicken level racist shit to Nasty's stiffing Scott Hall or ganso bombing Terry Funk it's really a no contest. Unlike HHH these guys would take what they dished out and then some with Knobbs getting murdered by Maxx Payne and Scott Steiner and Saggs having his face whipped with a belt being the most obvious examples. HHH is a guy who's best matches have been gimmick matches but when I look at his best gimmick matches next to the Nasty's I'll take the Nasty's every time. Nasty's didn't try and work beyond there means but could work in traditional tag settings. They were surprisingly good even in their very early years and the RnR's match from the AWA where Sags loses his teeth is better than any blue blood era Trip match. On their own they are harder to rate because really who thinks of either guy on his own? Sags was the better of the two and is someone I imagine could have had a good career in singles as the World's best Hack Myers. I'm less sure about Knobbs. Brutus Beefcake I actually liked the two "Dizzy Hogan" matches I saw from Portland where he worked heel. I mean he sucked and HHH was better, but maybe in an alternate universe Dizzy Hogan would have been good. Adam Bomb/Wrath Already covered. Yokozuna Yoko with ease. I actually think Yoko was an amazingly good worker when you consider his size. He doesn't have a laundry list of great matches, but he's got a lot of good/fun ones. One of the last great squash match wrestlers ever. Was an excellent tag wrestler. Really great brickwall/weeble wobble selling and my god could he bump for a guy his size with his stock through the ropes bump being one of my favorites of it's type ever. Yoko also had awesome offense as everything he did looked high impact and a lot of it showcases a remarkable degree of agility. If he had been slightly lighter he and in better health he probably would have been the best big man wrestler ever. Ahmed Johnson Ahmed was crazy over. He was like Goldberg with a less stage managed charisma that leaped off the page. He was also an really gifted athlete who would shock you by doing crazy shit like tope con hilo's. There is no way you could reasonably rate him over HHH because he burnt out so fast but I can almost assure you that he would have been. Rikishi I don't see any case for HHH to be honest. Rikishi was actually more over than HHH during HHH's peak period so I'm not even sure that I would give him points for being the bigger star even though HHH obviously was positioned better and has sustained. With Rikishi you not only have his string of fun stuff in the WWE, but you have the tag stuff that proceeded it a lot of which was really violent and intense stuff. It was also totally different than the Rikishi act which is a good testament to the fact that he was more versatile than HHH. Ken Shamrock I need to see his stuff from Japan that I haven't seen. I think his WWE run actually ages fairly well with some really fun matches. He had presence, though he was over the top with his acting at times. Hardcore Holly I will take Holly every day. Holly is underrated. Not a great worker, but safely good. Had a nice looking execution to his spots and was very good at working them into a match. His underdog babyface stuff was hokey, but he had some good performances with that act. The Big Shot era was an actually amusing and entertaining aspect of Attitude Era tv that still holds up today and he was great playing that part. The Hardcore Holly era gave us some really fun matches against a variety of opponents in a variety of settings. Much better live wrestler than HHH in my experience also. The Godfather Godfather is Big John Studd level bad. Test Test wasn't any good, but he was basically HHH without the political connections and not quite as many rope running spots. Once in a while he would do something athletically that would stun you but it wasn't something you couldn't see done better somewhere else. Kane I am a Kane fan and don't really see him as underrated - I've pretty much always hated him though there have been brief spurts where he would surprise me in the ring. I do like Unabomb in 95 a lot, but not enough to offset the Kaneyness of Kane. HHH wins. Charlie Haas Oddly in a sense I think Haas is a bit like HHH in that both guys aren't particularly good but have a decent number of quality matches because of circumstances and opportunity. Also like HHH he's not particularly good at the style he thinks he's good at which means he has a disproportionate number of "you've got to be fucking kidding me" spots as well. I would go with HHH here on the grounds that Haas has never had a real singles run and his tag work never saw him as the definitive star of the team. D-Von Dudley Man I loved D-Von's initial stuff as he showed up as the super serious, borderline racist, "angry black man" Dudley and just destroyed people and had several super fun brawls that were stiff as all hell. Once he got paired with Bubba, I think it was clear Bubba was the much better talent, though D-Von added something to the unit. By the WWE he was all "WAZZUP!" and "TESTIFY" and playing interior decorating for Bubba and not much else. But there is something to be said for a guy who knows his limitations. I am not a super huge Dudz fan, but I imagine Dudleys comp would be much easier to sit through then a DX comp though Shawn would have made a good lazy eyed, inferior worker, long lost twin of Spike. Shelton Benjamin For a while there Shelton had a hybrid J.T. Smith "you fucked up" gimmick but he wasn't as good at it as J.T. He was always good for the big spot or two in the ladder match that would turn heads. At points early on it looked like he would become a really good wrestler, but he never put it all together and is closer to Kurt Angle now which is too bad. I imagine a lot of people would rate him over HHH, but I don't think I would. Rob Van Dam I have condemned RVD as Carot Top many times, but prior to that period he could be really awesome at times. The Sabu matches fucking suck in hindsight, but I really liked his matches with Scorp, his mach with Furnas and his match with Jericho. Matches that were built around his big bumping tend to be awesome as he is great at that. He decided to go the route of shit prop comedy in excessively long matches, but at least the props weren't sledgehammers and stephanie mcmahon slaps. In the WWE RVD had moments and periods not unlike HHH and that is ultimately enough to put him above HHH in my calculus. Mr. Kennedy/Anderson Nothing really positive to say about this guy. In hindsight it seems hilarious that people thought he was going to be the next big thing in wrestling. John Morrison I have bashed the hell out of Morrison over the years and as a singles guy he is in some ways worse on fundamentals than Trip. Having said that over all he is a better wrestler. As a tag worker in MNM he was actually very, very good. Lots of stuff people have forgotten about from ECW with him and Miz as well. As a face he sucked for the most part, but I actually thought toward the end of last year and front end of this year he had a string of quality performances where he really added to the match. He has a match with McIntyre from SS last year that was a really great "flippy guy v. big bruiser" match. Morrison could really give you a trash bag performance, but it wasn't likely to be boring the way HHH's really awful performances were. Kofi Kingston Kofi is pretty bad as he has all of the worst traits of Morrison, but none of the plusses. He has proven that he is easy to hide in a tag setting though and even though he has some really awful looking highspots, he's got a few legitimately nice looking offensive moves though it is largely dependent on who is taking them. Kofi can be led through a match that goes beyond his talent level under the right circumstances with the right guy. HHH is probably better because despite his flaws he is less likely to work in spots that he has no clue how to execute properly. Jack Swagger I actually think I'd put Swaggers SLIGHTLY ahead of HHH with the minor qualification that I think it's really a toss up and I may be giving Swagger the benefit of the doubt because his best run is still relatively fresh in my mind. Still that 08 run was a really good mini-HHH 00 with Swagger looking like an elite level wrestler thanks to Christian and Finlay making him look like god on Earth. To be fair Swagger has had some other good matches and has really done well against a wide variety of guys. What he lacks are the intangibles in the ring, and a consistency to his game. Still he has been an apt passenger if nothing else. Ezekiel Jackson Big Zeke is actually a solid big man worker and has potential but I feel weird rating him above HHH only because HHH has been more battle tested and has at least scored a few times in big time settings.

I liked Finlay v. Sanders on first watch but didn't feel like it was a great match. Still need to watch that Jan. trios. I'll put that on the dock for tomorrow.

I don't necessarily want this to end up like Dean's thread at the DVDVR where almost every post is a youtube link, but with the Okada v. Naito talk in the other thread, Negro v. Casas and the awesome Santo/Villano v. Blanco/Solitaro tag hitting the web this week, and fun novelties like Tajiri v. Finlay and the soon to be Vader v. Necro, I figured this would be a good catch all for discussion on the subject as the year unwinds. As of today my top ten would be: 1. Brock Lesnar v. John Cena - WWE Extreme Rules 4/29 2. Angel Blanco Jr./El Hijo del Solitario vs. El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV, TXT 2/25 3. Blue Panther vs. Negro Casas, CMLL 3/2 4. Sheamus v. Daniel Bryan - WWE Extreme Rules 4/29 5. Daniel Bryan v. CM Punk - WWE Over The Limit 5/20 6.Fit Finlay v. Sami Callihan WXW 3/2 7. Sami Calihan v. Finlay - EVOLVE 4/13 8. Tajiri vs. Finlay, Smash 2/19 9. Black Terry vs. Chico Che, IWRG 1/29 10. Negro Casas vs. La Sombra, 2/20 Dropped out of the top ten on 3/15: Vordell Walker vs. 2 Cold Scorpio, PWE 1/28 Dropped out of the top ten on 3/31: Daniel Bryan vs Punk RAW 1/30 Dropped out of the top ten 4/2: Fuego/Valiente vs. Arkángel de la Muerte/Virus, CMLL 2/21 Dropped out of the top ten 4/3: Dolph Ziggler v. CM Punk 2/3 Falls Raw (house show) 3/25/11 Dropped out of the top ten 4/4: Derrick King/Frankie Tucker/Jerry Lawler v. Pokerface/LA Hustlers - MCW 3/2/12 Dropped out of the top ten 4/13: Blue Panther vs. Negro Casas, CMLL 1/27 Dropped out of the top ten 4/17: El Hijo Del Santo/ Villano IV vs EL Hijo Del Solitario/ Angel Blanco Jr - TODO X EL TODO- 3/23/2012 Dropped out of the top ten 4/30: Chico Che vs. Black Terry, IWRG 1/22 Dropped out of the top ten 4/30: El Hijo Del Santo v. Angel Blanco v. El Hijo Del Solitario Todo X El Todo3/31 (Mask v. Mask) Dropped out of the top ten 5/22: Mark Henry v. CM Punk - Raw 4/2 Not a good year so far for the WWE. Honorable mention to the two Show v. Bryan matches from SD, the second Punk v. Bryan match and the Smackdown battle royal which I really did love.