Dylan Waco

They also don't play under massive lighting rigs and are on the field for hours, not minutes.

This deserved it's own thread in my view. It's an interesting discussion about how WWE has changed methods/tactics over the years in building to Mania. I actually think I see both sides of the argument. To me the Rumble looks like it is becoming the vehicle to set the "b" main event.

I've been at the top of football stadiums in 10 degree weather - I'd do it again tomorrow and wouldn't think twice about it.

Since you brought it up, there wasn't a single thing Credible did better than Spike other than talk on the mic which is a win by default. His bumping was his strong suit and he was not a bad worker, but he was not a particularly good one either.

Credible was just awful as an act and had already gone far beyond what his skills merited in being ECW Champion. I suppose he technically fits the criteria because Heyman had a hard on for him and he probably would have been a main eventer in ECW for some time going forward. But he's not a guy who I think was cheated out of anything by ECW going under. I love C.W. Anderson and he was on the rise in ECW so he's a reasonable answer, though I'm not sure he was ever going to be able to break through on a consistent basis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS5cOf2GP5E...156C25FF6793A23 Tajiri v. Christian - RAW 2001 This is a short tv match, but we got some cool shit out of it while it lasted. I have no memory of Tajiri being the U.S. champ. The highlight of this was Christian chopping Tajiri, who then walked out of the corner, hit a nasty reverse back kick to Christian's head and then clutched his chest with a goofball expression on his face. Tajiri accidentally misting Charles Robinson was pretty amusing to. Basically just a match to further the Edge v. Christian feud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6ft-k-bePk Tajiri v. Super Crazy - Mexican Death Match 3/30/01 This is only two months after ECW went out of business so it's kind of interesting to see how the match develops. There is some inopportune clipping in this that keeps us from getting a complete picture, but Tajiri is pretty great in this. I like how they had one really flashy sequence (which looked really) great and then Tajiri immediately caves in Crazy's head with a kick after an attempted "respect" handshake. Crazy had pretty shitty selling at points, but I didn't mind too much because Tajiri's heeling was quality and he was really vicious in general. Crazy fighting back to the apron with a chair only for Tajiri to flip kick the chair into his head in the most cavalier fashion imaginable was the highlight of the match. Well that and Tajiri just pelting him in the face with one of his title belts and heaving it over his shoulder in disgust. Finish felt rushed and Crazy pretty much solidified himself as the definitive least of the ECW workrate trio here, but this is a cool find that I have definitely never seen before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPWs0KDZ6Qs Tajiri v. Little Guido - Hardcore Heaven 99 This is what I wrote about this for the ECW Set nomination process: "Jesus this was good. Pre-match Tajiri comes to the ring and Guido taunts him by slapping him in the face and begging Tajiri to tag him. That sort of sets the tone for this as they work a weird cross of BattleARTS and highspot heavy junior wrestling but it really clicks. The early matwork is fairly flashy for the time period and really rugged with some cool counters and escapes. Guido targets the arm and keeps coming back to it throughout the match, including a really cool cutoff spot off of a Tajiri dive attempt. There is also a great spot where Guido hits a dropkick to the arm knocking Tajiri to the floor and then Tajiri just sidesteps a plancha for one of many awesome Guido bumps. Tons of great spots in this including an insane faceplant on the ramp by Guido, a really sweet tarantula out of a sunset flip attempt, and an awesome Guido full nelson into armbar mat sequence that was really impressive. Even Big Sal was good in this as he was used sparingly, but set up an effective segment where Guido built heat on Tajiri leading to his big offensive barrage of brutal kicks and a brainbuster for the finish. Strong match. Unless I'm missing something this didn't get a single vote at SC which surprises me. I've seen a few matches between these two guys but I don't think I've seen a single one better than this. Easy nomination." This was actually one of the first things I watched for that project and by the end it still stood out as one of the better matches I had watched. Rewatching it now I don't have a great deal to add other than to say that it might be my US MOTY for 99.

I think I have seen it before but if so it was years ago.

Odd that he felt the need to do a run it at Classics of all places to defend himself in yet another does UFC get to much coverage debate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKoWnajwfDY Tajiri v. Minoru Tanaka - Big Japan 2/3/98 This was not really all that good but it was interesting to watch. This is about a year before Tajiri started his ECW run and the match was probably more of a spotfest than the vast majority of his ECW matches. It did have an underlying theme though with Tanaka targeting the arm early and Tajiri working for bigger bombs to even the score. They did a good job teasing the importance of the dragon suplex that would eventually end the match as well. Tajiri had sick kicks even then and his big spots looked really good. Tanaka was a guy who would be a huge favorite of certain segments of fans a year or so after this, but he actually worked a lot looser here than I was expecting and was much less convincing than Tajiri. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCBOb0K1TTI Tajiri v. Ohtani - BOSJ 5/20/97 Wow this was way better than I was expecting. Peak Ohtani is one of my all time favorites as he was the absolutely king of the dick back heels. This is almost the perfect scenario as you have King of Dicks Ohtani, coming off one of the all time great years in junior heavyweight wrestling v. minor league upstart kid who is just hoping to represent himself and his company well. Ohtani of course has no use for this match or this shit kid and tries to embarrass him and snuff him out early, grinding his forearm into his face, face washing him in the corner and mocking the whole proceeding like it is a complete waste of his time on every level. Tajiri eventually comes back by attacking Ohtani's knees with kicks and they do some really nice spots with Ohtani selling annoyance more than frustration at Tajiri's pluckiness. Every time Tajiri looks to be making a comeback he gets fucking wrecked by Ohtani, including an absolutely vicious pair of Ohtani springboard staples that Tajiri takes as well as any body ever has. Just as you start to get the feeling this i going to be a match about Tajiri's "fighting spirit," he counters an Ohtani corner charge with a kick to the knee, takes his head off with a kick and then hits a sit down powerbomb/rolling cradle combo for a near fall. Both guys get back to their feet and go into a brief strike exchange before Tajiri slips in a flash dragon suplex for the surprise win which Ohtani promptly sells like the greatest tragedy/crime in World history. This felt like Lebron going to a local Akron court and getting beat in a game of 21 by a street baller.

Rumor is that Tajiri has been contacted by the WWE about being a part of their new cruiserweight only show which allegedly is going to launch on the new network.

I actually think it's amazing how much they DON'T blend together considering how often he would work the same guys. There is much more variation between matches with Crazy and Guido than I expected going into watching the footage. And I think Tajiri was the best wrestler in the World in both 99 and 00. It is theoretically possible that some of the BattlArts guys were better (I haven't watched that stuff in years) and I like GAEA at the time. But there is no one from any of the major promotions I would rate over him.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tajiri...amp;FORM=LKVR38 Tajiri v. Super Crazy - Mexican Death Match ECW 1/15/00 You could certainly find fault with this match and if you are totally averse to ECW stylistically it may be a waste of time to watch it. For my eyes it's one of the best matches of 2000. Tajiri/Crazy matches are remembered as the forerunners to the spot heavy style that would dominate the initial super indies in the period that followed the death of ECW. They certainly had their matches that were like that and this was by no means low on spots, but there was a lot more going on here, including a great performance from Tajiri who was just out of control as a heel at this point. He is literally spitting on the crowd, spitting Crazy's BLOOD on the crowd and heaving shit into the crowd. Of course this is an ECW Arena crowd so they turn him face as soon as he does a spot that mark out for, but I still admire that sort of lunacy, especially for a guy working an evil/shifty/vicious Asian stereotype gimmick. This is a match with several prop spots, but I thought they were all well set up, well delivered and to a large degree unique. One touch I really liked is that Tajiri taking too long setting up the tables allowed Crazy recovery time to avoid the insane chair slide across the table spot and later to get in a really sick looking blindside flying dropkick in the set up to the finish. Speaking of which the finish is really great as both guys set up tables. Tajiri stabs Crazy in the head with a spike used in putting up the ring. Crazy comes back and goes for a powerbomb through a table, but Tajiri blocks it with the mist and tries to counter only for Crazy to hit a twisting powerbomb through the other table in an almost desperate last ditch - and successful - attempt to win. This match also features the most well timed and believable tarantula spot I can recall seeing. Really a good mix of blood feud, big spots and a nice finish. There aren't too many matches I have watched more than this over the last few years.

Jarrett is more than likely on the back end of his career. He has been able to parlay his TNA career into a way to make money wrestling/promoting in India, Mexico and Japan - far more money than he would have made any of those places without TNA as a vehicle. Even had Jarrett not burned Vince (twice IIRC) there is no way in hell he was ever going to be more than a mid-carder in the mold of a William Regal/Goldust. Not a bad gig at all for a vet, but compared to having your own fiefdom, that includes a totally undeserved tv deal and unlimited funds from a crazed money mark, it really is small potatos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-ReAD_7IE Tajiri v. Eugene - SMASH 4/23/2010 The pre-match vignette with Eugene working a stereotypical Japanese tourist gimmick, in Japan as an American tourist was great. Fun match. I could see some people not liking the combo of "serious" athletic spots and Eugene schtick, but I think that sort of stuff fits in a promotion like SMASH which is basically a weird mismatch of "sports entertainment" elements. It also doesn't hurt that the athletic spots looked really slick. Tajiri's mockery of opponents is always fun and it amused me at points here, though I wish it would have been turned up a bit. I did enjoy the finish a great deal though. Worth watching.

Yep, Jarrett may have been the biggest WINNER. He got to create his own fiefdom, where he will always be on or near the top. Yeah, but it's TNA He's going down in infamy I'm not altogether sure infamy is a bad thing in the wrestling universe

I am absolutely open to requests. I am DL'ing the BJPW match now and will dig into some SMASH as well.

This is actually a really good pick. There were periods from 98 on where Kidman seemed like he was going to be a break out star but he just never broke out. Part of that was the shit booking and impossible situations he was put in (the Hogan feud that was never going to end well, hell the Filthy Animals in general), part of that was his own limitations. Still when you watch his series with Juvy from 98 or even some of his work teaming with Rey just before the crash in 01 he seems like someone who should have been a much bigger player. Jason Jett is another really interesting one. I actually have no clue what even happened to him post WCW

Yep, Jarrett may have been the biggest WINNER. He got to create his own fiefdom, where he will always be on or near the top.

Chris Chetti was an absolutely terrible wrestler. Just awful. The best thing about ECW going out of business is that his career was effectively over. I want to make clear that I don't necessarily see Helms as a main eventer either. My point was that he was in the midst of a push where he seemed to be getting the ball and being told to run with it. Would that have meant much over the long haul? Really hard to say because it is WCW we are talking about. And I agree that the Hurricane is a good gimmick to milk for a post-big league indy run. But my point was more that he is a guy who I think MIGHT have been a reasonably big star in WCW had it stayed around, rather than the guy that would become the Hurricane. Bagwell I don't see. He was near or around the same level for years and it was constantly teased that he was going to break into the upper tier and never did. He was clearly over, but he didn't have the dedication (post-Benoit that almost seems creepy to say btw), and he didn't feel like a guy that was being set up for a run when WCW tanked. DDP is touch because I think his age would have worked against him some and I think he was a hot act that had lost a lot of steam by that point. His gimmick was great at it's peak and insanely over, but that also strikes me as the sort of act that is hard to reinflate. If Bischoff had taken over WCW I imagine he would have been a major piece of that puzzle. If Bisch isn't in charge? I'm doubtful. It's arguable Steiner got a worse break than DDP.

So the ECW project really gave me a new found appreciation for Tajiri. He had been one of my favorite wrestlers back in 99 and 00 but I had forgotten how great he was and he is a guy that really holds up on rewatch. In fact if anything he appears better in the rear view. So in this thread I'll review his matches from a variety of places including but not restricted to ECW and the WWE. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypvQlwWmFHc Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas - Ladder Match This was Eddie/Tajiri's first time as a team and they win the tag belts here in a pretty insane car crash style ladder match. I wouldn't call this a pure spotfest as their was some thought put into structuring this, but this was really all about the lunatic bumps and spots. Every guy takes at least one bump that makes you cringe and Tajiri's is a jaw first bump onto a ladder rung that looks absolutely horrifying. Haas takes an insane bump off the ladder to the floor and Eddie gets crumpled up nastily off of a powerslam onto a ladder from Shelton. Not all the spots in this came off clean but I sort of like that in matches like this as it fits the theme of a totally out of control setting. Finish with Eddie taking out both of the WGTT and Tajiri misting Benjamin as he makes a last gasp to save the titles was cool and Eddie handing the belt to Tajiri atop the ladder was a touching moment in a pretty brutal setting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndhCO0jW6vE Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas 5/22/2003 This was really a hell of a match though Eddie is the real star of it. Tajiri gets in some pretty neat looking grappling early and gets worked over some as well, but the bulk of this is Eddie as FIP, teasing comebacks and some smartly worked spots built around Tajiri saving Eddie. One thing that really stood out about this was how well Eddie was able to play plucky underdog. He does all sorts of Luchaesque highspots in this, uses a frogsplash as a hope spot (Haas gets his knees up), takes some really sick looking bumps on throws and take downs, et. Tajiri for his part has some great moments sneaking in with kicks to make the save and his flurry of offense off the hot tag was pretty great. I should also mention that the spot that set up Eddie's FIP was a rare case of a complicated sequence that came off really organic and looked like a string of believable counters, rather than a floor exercise routine in the Olympics. The nutty over the top hip toss spot that got Haas to the floor and sets up the finish was really awesome looking to. You can bitch about the ref not selling the chairshot finish, but this was "lie, cheat, steal" era and it fit the motif well. Tajiri's facial expressions were great as always. This really was an awesome tv match.

I actually think Awesome had already peaked in ECW in terms of stardom and what he could bring. He was never going to be able to survive there without some sort of mouthpiece and the novelty of his act was starting to wear thin. The RVD match that should have happened would have been the apex and I believe could have actually been a good money match for them - but then Awesome left for WCW (not that I blame him). Still after the obvious RVD match I'm not sure there was anywhere to go for Awesome other than down in ECW

I got really lazy in this thread and there is no way I'll ever catch up now, but I would have gotten to that match. It's a great match though I need to rewatch it to pull out more of the particulars. My thoughts are that Buddy was the best wrestler in the World in 79.

I was talking to my brother about this tonight. When WCW and ECW went out of business a lot of guys in both promotions were either not picked up by the WWE or were picked up but with a reduced push/limited role. We were trying to brainstorm guys who were probably most adversely effected. The two names we sort of settled on were Shane Helms and Steve Corino. Helms was in the midst of a fairly substantial push in WCW. They were finally reemphasizing the cruiserweights and Helms was effectively being treated as the ace of that division. He was given a grandiose entrance that made him seem like a big star, was having good matches and appeared to be really making strides in terms of getting over when the company went belly up. If WCW had stayed around you could either see him becoming a fairly big star in his own right or being a guy who was underused and bolted to the WWE where he would up as a main eventer ala Eddie, Benoit, Jericho. Corino is a guy who really got fucked. He was probably one of the best wrestlers in the World at this point, to go along with being a great promo. Very diverse guy who could hang with a variety of styles. Was a regular main eventer in ECW and didn't feel like a bad fit at that level at all. I think he could have been a great heel for Vince, but Vince allegedly hated his scarred up forehead and saw little in him, so when he ECW closed he became an indy trailblazer and a somewhat successful gajin in Japan. Really Corino seems like he would have been a huge star in the territory era, but if ECW had been able to hold on (a pipe dream I know) he probably would have been a much bigger star throughout the 00's. I'm sure there are other names I'm forgetting.

He was posting under an assumed name at another forum I frequent as recently as last year.

I think the point of doing it again eventually - and now is NOT the right time - is that in fact a whole shit load more footage has become available and a great deal more has become widely available. We have tons of Portland now. AWA is about to come out in a Set that is going to highlight tons of stuff that has barely been seen or talked about at all by smart fans. Guys like Hoshino have emerged as "how the fuck did we not know this guy existed?" figures and guys like Fujinami, Fujiwara, Tenryu, Casas, Lawler have emerged as GOAT figures with a broader cross section of people. The yearbooks have given us great time capsule projects to watch things in context. Lucha and Europe, both wildly underexplored regions in the past are now pimped more and a lot of stuff is available online featuring guys like Satanico, Jim Breaks, La Fiera, et who would be easy top hundred contenders and were after thoughts at best for most people voting six years ago. Indy guys that seemed fringy or questionable at the time - like Punk, Joe, Danielson, Necro, et have more defined careers to be judged by. Shootstyle has gotten a lot more attention and discussion with people like Ikeda, Ishikawa, Otsuka, Fujiwara, Han, Tamura, et having their own corners of th net where they are appreciated as all time greats. There is less consensus on some figures and more diversity of opinion with real "blocks" of fandom (not that there weren't then, but they feel more obvious now and I think the footage explosion has allowed for people to more freely criticized sacred cows that may have just been accepted as great without little if any watching of them/discussion of them in the past). Now is the wrong time to do it because we are on the verge of releasing things like Lucha, Europe, Portland, AWA, SMW and multiple 90's yearbooks which will further expand the footage base and will make guys like Rose, El Dandy, Bock, Hennig, Dundee, Breaks, Saint, Lawler, et even stronger candidates. But I can't see any reason at all to believe that the 06 vote was unimpeachable, let alone to argue that "nothing has changed." A shitload has changed. There were 49 voters in the GWE. I was one of them and I'm an elitist dick when it comes to wrestling but no way in hell would I categorize myself as some sort of nobleman who was uniquely qualified to vote in that poll. Hell I was underqualified for a number of reasons not the least of which was my total ignorance of Lucha. I agree that it was a very interesting and unique cross section of voters. But I think now you would get a much broader range of opinion even if the voting base was smaller (and I'm not altogether certain it would be) if for no other reason than because people have dug a lot more sense then.