Childs
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Ending sucked at the moment, and you would hope this will put an end to Bryan's headfirst bumps to the floor. But you would think they could work this into his whole weakest link storyline pretty effectively.
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[1991-12-06-CMLL] El Dandy vs El Satanico (Hair vs Hair)
Childs replied to Loss's topic in December 1991
Judged against the same match from the year before, this was a disappointment. Of course, that was also the culmination of a more extended feud. This was still really good though. I didn't mind Dandy taking the first fall quickly after he entered the ring in a fury. The second fall went a little longer as Satanico got himself into the match with his brawling, which looked great as always. But as Loss said, they didn't really wrestle this with blood hatred, opting for a more title-match approach to the third fall. These guys were masters of creative mat wrestling so that extended technical battle came off very well. Even as a mild letdown, this was a top five lucha match for 1991. -
I'm right there with you guys on the MVC frustration. They sucked the life out of the match every time they took control. It's a shame, because we know based on 4/18 that these teams had a really good match in them. The Hansen/Spivey vs. Jumbo/Taue from two nights later is also much better.
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That's an overly reductionist answer, Matt. Lesnar's whole aura is built around his size and the sense that he really could tear someone's head off. So I don't think it's crazy to suggest that a skinny guy like Punk has some work to do to come off as a serious threat to Brock. I'm not saying I can't buy the feud. But I think they'd be foolish to work it without acknowledging the real-world differences between Punk and Lesnar.
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I'm sure this isn't my favorite WCW match. I liked the work in the best tag matches from 1990 a bit better, and I might say the same about the Superbrawl match the following year with Windham in place of Steamboat. But as a total experience, from the way Steamboat was announced, to Arn's reaction, to the way they structured the match, it was just about perfect.
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[1991-11-23-WCW-Power Hour] Sting vs Cactus Jack (Submit or Surrender)
Childs replied to Loss's topic in November 1991
It's interesting that several people whose opinions I trust strongly prefer this to the Beach Blast match. It was an excellent match that probably featured a better build than the '92 version. But the other one had a kinetic quality, with every bit of action just clicking for me. I don't know; I'm glad they both exist. These guys are Top 5 opponents on one another's lists. -
I have liked, not loved, the lucha for most of 1991. But seeing Dandy back with Satanico just warmed my heart. I wish we had 50 matches between them on tape.
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This is one of the best examples I've seen of working to the draw without telegraphing it. I loved the spot where Misawa tried to win with the facelock, as he had on 9/4, only for Jumbo to counter by goring his eye. The match was a great summary of this rivalry, though I might have it No. 4 of their four matches since 9/30/90. Tough competition.
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Yeah, I mentioned the Tito matches from 1990, which were really good and featured Henning working more ruggedly. Maybe Tito encouraged that. We certainly know from the Valentine series that he was down for that kind of work. The Bret matches feel like his most famous WWF outings by a good stretch, and they're both very good. In addition to the stuff you mentioned, there are the Hogan matches, which I don't like. He had some matches with Ron Garvin in 1989 that you would think might have brought out some aggression but instead highlighted the weakness of his WWF offense.
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I don't know which role required him to be more self-conscious. But it seems tiresome to point out that it's hard to separate a guy's work from the style of his promotion. I mean, no shit, right? I don't blame Curt for wrestling the way he did in WWF. And yes, it worked for him to a degree. But it's totally fair to say he was on track to have an all-time great in-ring career and fell off that track because he went to a place that de-emphasized a lot of his best tools. To take your Pacino example, wouldn't you have to argue that Al's career is more flawed because he's been a caricature of his own hammiest qualities for most of the last 20 years? Has he really been kind to the legacy he created in his first 20? That doesn't mean the later work invalidates the good stuff. But as fans, we're allowed to be disappointed when a talented performer's career doesn't live up to our best hopes. As for Curt's uniqueness, I think we could say a lot of the same shit about Shawn Michaels.
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I'm not sure WWE would want him at this point. Although I guess they could book a good run of him fighting to regain respect against the guys who passed him. Not that they would. I feel bad for Joe. He was a gateway guy who helped me find a lot of the wrestling I like best.
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I don't think "lacked adaptability" is the right criticism for Henning. He worked a fiery 10-minute brawl with Hansen and an hour-long technical build with Bockwinkel in the same 12 months, and both are great matches with tremendous performances by him. He got over everywhere he went and did it playing fairly different roles. The Jumbo match from '85 and the Lawler title change aren't anywhere near the best examples of his work, though neither is bad. The criticism of Curt is that once he hit the biggest stage, he bought into one aspect of his work to the exclusion and detriment of a lot of his best tools (well, most of the time ... I really like his '90 matches against Tito.)
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The problem with Henning is that his most-seen stuff is also his most disappointing. He was a phenomenal young talent. Based on his Portland and AWA work, you could've convinced me he was headed for a top-20 all-time kind of career. Tremendous babyface, very good heel champion when he made the turn in AWA. In addition to the bumping, he could brawl, work holds, fly, connect emotionally. As Mr. Perfect, he had his moments. But he became overly reliant on showy bumping and went months at a time without quality matches. So in a way, his career was both better and worse than a lot of fans would perceive.
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Damnit Loss, if I can't make unfounded assumptions about good ol' J.R., who can I make unfounded assumptions about?
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I liked the global warming promo he cut in the middle of this week's Observer. Particularly amusing was the fact that in came in connection with an item about Jim Ross, who strikes me as a likely climate change denier.
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The WCW/ECW/WWE piece brought this week's issue to a screeching halt. That, to me, is Dave at his worst -- 7,500 words of regurgitated history without much of a time hook or a cogent argument. He was reacting to Barbed Wire City and some WWE.com piece, but he didn't really explain what he thought of either. Just an awful slog.
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I don't understand the point of debating a top four that would include Hansen, largely because of his Japanese work, but would not include Japanese guys. I mean, any reasonable discussion of definitive stars from the '80s would have to include Riki Choshu, wouldn't it?
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I think you'll really enjoy that 12/6/91 Hansen/Spivey vs. Jumbo/Taue. It's only about 12 minutes but really intense and focused, especially compared to the MVC stuff that drove you nuts throughout the year.
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How did you end up feeling '91 compared to other years we've covered? Probably not the best in terms of top-end matches, but I've found it a very easy year to get through.
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Was this made available after it got taken down? Does anybody have it? I hope someone does. I haven't seen it since then but I was talking about it with a friend the other day and it put me in the mood to watch it again. It bugs me that I've never seen the video of this, because we we there live, and I've always wanted to know how well it held up.
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Yeah, they did a masterful job of building these guys up as the two rising stars you wanted to see in the final. It's hard to watch this and not make comparisons to the All-Japan peer group. It would take another year for the All-Japan guys to hit this level in a singles match that didn't involve Hansen or Jumbo. But this was the best Chono or Muto ever got. They delivered a ton of action without blowing past the moments that called for selling or kicking out of finishers. I loved the spot where Chono rose to counter Muto's moonsault only for Muto to vault over the counter and retain the advantage. I also liked that Chono, after pulling out so many matches with the STF, had to dig deeper in his bag to win this one. They deserved every bit of applause the crowd poured on them.
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[1991-08-09-NJPW-Violent Storm] Jushin Liger vs Akira Nogami
Childs replied to Loss's topic in August 1991
They did an excellent job of making the opening matwork seem more important than usual in an NJ juniors match. I particularly liked the way they both fought out of the surfboard, because when it was applied later in the match, that actually felt like a moment. Nogami got to look super-gutsy, fighting through the kind of stuff that put away most Liger opponents. This lacked the nastiness of Liger-Honaga but felt fiercer than most of the Liger-Benoit matches. I'm not sure why Nogami didn't pop at this stage. He seemed to have the right blend of athletic ability and passion to be a more enduring rival for Liger. -
The best thing about this was the build from the prettier, more fluid matwork of the first fall, to the violent, desperate action of the third. I agree that it's no Dandy-Azteca, but that's a terribly difficult standard. Except for Atlantis half-botching his dive, the third fall was pretty stirring. I loved that instead of sitting in the ring after he hit his dive, Panther went to the apron to ram his shoulder into Atlantis' back. The Gory Special that followed made for a great nearfall. And then the execution of the actual finish was beautiful. Probably my lucha MOTY to this point, ahead of Santito vs.Brazo de Oro.
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[1991-08-11-NJPW-G1 Climax] Masa Chono vs Shinya Hashimoto
Childs replied to Loss's topic in August 1991
I agree that their draw two nights earlier felt bigger and more dramatic. That said, most of the work here was excellent, with Chono mounting a convincing attack on Hash's leg, Hash rallying savagely and Chono finding a way to apply the STF. Hash's selling of the initial leg attack could have been better. But this was a strong trial-by-fire performance from both guys. Chono was hugely and deservedly over by this stage.