Childs
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It was striking how immediately this established the difference between a Tenryu-centric promotion and All-Japan. It wasn't built around escalating offense so much as escalating nastiness. Certainly worked for me. -
I hadn't seen this in a long time, but watching it in context put over how spectacular a spotfest it really was. I always think of the Fantastics as a lesser Rock n' Roll Express on some level. But the R n' R s could not have pulled off this match.
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[1990-09-21-EMLL] Rayo de Jalisco Jr vs Cien Caras (Mask vs Mask)
Childs replied to Loss's topic in September 1990
I liked the same stuff about this as you -- the start with the guitar, Rayo's headbutts, Caras' reluctance to give up his mask. But it struck me as a letdown overall for a big mascara contra mascara. Not enough blood or desperation. -
He's the best overall WWF worker from the yearbooks that have been released so far, though he wasn't necessarily the best in any given six-month stretch you might spotlight. It's certainly to his credit that he could have a very good match with 1-2-3 Kid as easily as he could with Diesel, with Bob Backlund as easily as he could with Steve Austin. And those matches weren't all the same, despite Bret always feeling fairly similar as a performer. I guess my biggest complaint about Bret, the one that would keep him out of the upper ranks of my GOAT list, is that his performances rarely got past feeling calculated. He just didn't cross over to that place where he seemed like a guy fighting for his life and his honor (which is funny, because he took his character seriously enough that he actually was kind of fighting for his honor). Maybe he reached that place in the Austin match from Mania? I haven't watched it in a long time, so I'm not sure.
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Tim, this ended up bumming me out, because several of the matches you praised aren't on the set, and now I feel like I have to get the Ginnetty set.
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[1990-09-01-AJPW-Summer Action Series II] Mitsuharu Misawa vs Jumbo Tsuruta
Childs replied to Loss's topic in September 1990
It's much better than the June match, more coherent and as Ditch said, better at establishing Misawa as a guy who could go toe-to-toe with a heavyweight instead of having to wrestle as an opportunistic cruiserweight. The June match had the "holy shit" ending, but this one featured better performances from both guys. -
I liked the obit but god, that retelling of the history of Strikeforce was the WON at its most agonizing.
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Watching Dibiase in AJPW does him no favors. He's solid but looks very much like a B+ guy when he's in the same match as Hansen.
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I look at it both ways at different times. Matches are very important to me, and when I go through a yearbook, for example, I'm always comparing them in my mind. I identify more with the way you think about wrestling than with someone like MattD, who writes intelligent, enjoyable posts but doesn't seem to prize transcendent matches. I would never advocate someone as GOAT if he didn't have a long list of matches that really excited me. That said, I'm very attached to certain wrestlers -- Hansen, Choshu, Tenryu, etc. -- and prone to give them the benefit of the doubt in matches that might bug me if other workers were involved.
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I think of a technician as someone with an above-average assortment of moves that he executes very well. That isn't Shawn Michaels, who was all about bumping and charisma. If Shawn Michaels is a technical wrestler, that illustrates the absurdity of the term. And no, I don't think of Dibiase as a technician either, though his offense was better executed and more painful looking than Shawn's.
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This is an aside, but how the fuck are we talking about Shawn Michaels as a technical wrestler? Even the best version of Shawn had a notably limited repertoire.
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LeBron James gave Flair a shoutout as a godfather of "swag" after Flair attended the Heat-Bobcats game Wednesday.
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Now those are two guys I don't link in my mind, even though I like them both.
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1. El Dandy - I have loved him ever since Will's set came out however many years ago. But I've been going through the 1990 yearbook, which features an absolute prime Dandy. And I look forward to every match that pops up, singles, tag or trios. I don't know that I've ever seen a guy move more fluidly between all types of wrestling -- from matwork to brawling to flying to comedy. 2. Bobby Eaton - Another 1990 yearbook choice. He started the year with a rare but awesome singles performance against Flair. And he's been the best performer on the best tag team in the world as the MX close out their run with a superb string of matches. 3. Tsuyoshi Kikuchi - As I watch the '90s generation of All-Japan take center stage, no one puts a bigger grin on my face. Kikuchi vs. Jumbo is one of my favorite six-man pairings of all-time, and he was also sensational in his 7/12/90 singles challenge against Fuchi. 4. Ikeda vs. Ishikawa - A bit of a cheat here, but a couple months back, I decided to watch every match-up between them that I have on tape (singles, tag and multi-man). And boy did that make for a fun couple of weeks of late-night viewing. I've had this conversation with Phil before, but I wish these guys lived in the U.S. and spoke English, because I'd love to write a profile about them as two guys wedded throughout their adult lives by low-rent violence. Are they like the kind of brothers who only see each other a few times a year but share a connection that can't be understood by anyone else? I want to know. 5. Riki Choshu - Because as a rule, I'm always going to enjoy a match with Choshu more than I would've enjoyed it without him.
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Abby was better because there was no double cross to his act. He presented himself as a lunatic fat guy who was turned on by violence and would cut your ass up with a fork. And that's exactly what he delivered night after night for decades. Brody's act, by contrast, was a total gyp, as others have described in the thread.
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I liked that Kingston main event, but these posts remind me that I hate Chikara more than maybe any wrestling ever. The one Chikara show I attended -- believe it was night two of KOT in 2008 -- featured a legitimately great main event with Danielson on one side and Johnny Saint on the other. But I just loathed the hyper-self-aware, jokey shit and the way the fan base lapped it up. When Phil, Tom and I drove up to Philly, we thought we might attend both Saturday and Sunday's shows. By the end of Saturday, despite buzzing from the aforementioned main event, we had zero desire to return. Paraphrasing Tom: I don't want to be winked at constantly when I'm watching pro wrestling.
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New Japan. Great depth and variety, and the idea that "shitty" Koshinaka matches made up any significant percentage of it is just silly. All Japan might have had more matches that I'd call great, but it also presented fewer surprises or discoveries. Memphis was my favorite of the American sets -- best high-end matches, best lead guy in Lawler and plenty of surprises. Texas was my least favorite set so far -- plenty of good stuff but not a whole lot that would contend for my top 20 lists on the other sets.
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Sawyer's not really a revelation at this point. He was a tremendous talent who had significant '80s runs in Georgia and Mid-South along with some good matches in New Japan.
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Based on yearbook watching, I'd say 1990 was the last year Flair was a top 10 guy in the world. I don't think he was the best that year. He wasn't as good as Dandy or Satanico, and I'm not even sure I'd put him above Bobby Eaton if we keep it to WCW. But he was still awfully good, at least until he dropped the belt to Sting. In general, I really appreciate the thinking behind this thread. Way too often, we hear that so and so was great for 20 years without any attempt to assess the individual years. The yearbooks and 80s projects have been revelatory in showing that even the best of the best had peaks and valleys.
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Was it ever clear to you why Dave and others thought Brody was better than Hansen, John? I came to the matches years later, but for the life of me, I can't see how anyone would come away with that view. It's not like Hansen's character was fucking subtle or something.
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Haven't we already fleshed out Jerry's bizarre inability to see Tenryu's charisma? What's the point of even arguing with someone who hasn't seen any of Tenryu in the '90s or '00s? On Jumbo, there's nothing to be said about Dylan's position. He's seen a ton of him, understands that he's good and doesn't find him appealing. It is what it is.
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Muraco is a good one -- just a real sack of shit who is for some reason beloved in certain corners. The Dick Murdoch thread reminded me of my dislike for Adrian Adonis. Adonis had a lot of talent, and I like his stuff against Buddy Rose. But I found him almost universally disappointing in New Japan, and though he was fine on the AWA set, he didn't stand out there either. I hate Manami Toyota. She could be phenomenal for five minutes at a time but on the whole, represents everything that bugs me about Joshi -- from the screaming to the racing through every damned spot. I know this is completely non-controversial in these parts, but Brody might be the all-time "fuck that guy" worker. It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone ever thought he was better than Hansen.
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There was a lot of good wrestling in this, highlighting the contrast between Owen's athletic style and Finlay's rough-and-tumble brawling. But that made it all the more frustrating that it never went anywhere as a match. No build, no highlight moments, no real conclusion, nothing.
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These guys are always a pleasure. They worked complicated sequences so smoothly and quickly that it's like watching bugs dance on the surface of a lake or something. This was another trios where most of the competition came in the first fall, and the last two kind of whizzed by. But that dive train interruptus was so cool that I hardly cared. Dandy's no hands tope over the top rope always looked amazing, and I loved the way Azteca's receipt dive hit him almost as soon as he turned around. I could watch this crew every week.
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They certainly kept it simple, as Loss indicated, but this was my kind of thing. Vader did eight minutes of Vader stuff. Then Choshu staged a stirring rally capped by an awesome series of lariats. And bang, title change. I've seen them have a better body of a match with a worse finish. But I'll never complain about these guys working a hard-hitting 10-12 minutes without any bullshit.