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Read in the latest WON that Sid wants to return to WWE. He's still in shape and with the rash of injuries in WWE I'm sure they'd be open to it. THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN. Especially if they bring back the sparklers spelling out SID above the ring. I'd pretty much mail my wallet to Titan Towers if during a Cena promo he got powerbombed out of his camo shorts by the Master and Ruler of the World.

Did Carlito drop his accent when speaking of his own family or did they edit/fix that?

Reading in the WON how the plans for succession in WWE after Vince are to depict Steph and Shane to be equal co-owners, but Shane would be more of a figurehead who would be the one who would talk to the public. After the latest victory over her brother with the website (Shane thought it was stupid to keep kayfabe and get beat out on real stories by NOOZ sites), it's pretty much finalized now that she's going to be the new Vince both in temperament and total control of the company. It's funny how the kids seemingly will end up assuming the roles of the parent they seem to take after. Also, all the talk of a post-Vince WWE made me wonder what the first episode of RAW after his death would be like. I'm picturing his coffin going up the rampway while bagpipers play "No Chance In Hell", all leading to him being shot into space from a cannon molded to look like a 30 foot penis.

I'd like to throw Brazos vs Villanos on the pile just because it's one of my personal Holy Grail matches.

Al hits a good point, people don't get turned off of wrestling because the in ring product is fake, they get turned off because the booking makes them feel stupid for watching something so obviously fake that they turn it off rather than be insulted. My question is why can some dudes on a message board figure this shit out but people actually in the business never seem to?

I don't know if this deserves a separate thread or not, but apparently the DVD release not only removes the boos from Big Dave's entrance (why? he was the de facto heel in the match) they also reshot the Trump-Boogeyman skit according to the thread at DVDVR.

But wait, I thought building characters and solid promotion was the Lesson of 2006. I mean, isn't that why Tito & Ken drew such big numbers when everyone knew it was gonna suck as a fight? Such is the Meltzer Paradox: boxing and wrestling need to act more like MMA, but MMA gets its best buyrates when they do what boxing and wrestling have done for the last 100 years or so.

I just watched the Dela Hoya vs Maywether fight on HBO On Demand I realized a few things: 1. The "24/7" hype shows that Meltzer went on about as the new gold standard of PPV promotion are nothing more than the Rock/Brock "PURE SPORTS BUILD" videos stretched to 4 episodes. 2. The main draw for the PPV was the clear heel vs face dynamic that has worked in pro wrestling since forever, and if you read the WON it was if boxing had discovered the magic formula for hyping shows. 3. It really exposed the flaw in his basic mindset that boxing and wrestling all need to act more like MMA to survive in modern times when both this fight and Wrestlemania scored huge buyrates pretty much entirely on the tried and true method of building characters and solid promotion. I don't get why he thinks everyone needs to try to reinvent the wheel.

Speaking of Lanny Poffo, does it weird anyone else out that he looks like a completely different person without facial hair? Exhibit A: My brain can't wrap around that being the same guy who pranced around throwing frisbees and competing in battle royals in a suit of armor.

Makes me wonder why they never pushed him in the WWF. I guess they did in the sense where he was a jobber with a defined gimmick (the "Poet Laureate of the WWF" stuff) but he still lost all the time. I know his size was probably the main thing against him but Randy wasn't any bigger and they still pushed him to the moon.

I know sometimes there's some hidden gems to be found, but Jesus the late 70s-early 80s WWF house show style of giving jobbers 20 minute competitive matches can just be soul crushing at times. It's really hard to get into a match between two guys you know the company doesn't give a shit about, and sometimes it seems like Andy Kaufman style performance art to see how long they will let a match like that go on before the audience starts committing seppuku to end the boredom.

It's funny how people think having guys "toned down WWE style" is a concept that only started in the 90s or later. Show someone a tape of Jim Duggan in Mid-South and jaws tend to hit the floor. As far as ECW TV goes, it's the only thing on 24/7 I haven't been recording. It's not their fault really, most things from the 90s haven't really aged well and the hardcore style is so beyond played out in 2007 it's hard to watch it in the "this is all cutting edge and new" mindset of the time. I've also discovered a newfound respect for the JCP jobbers. Every episode of World Championship Wrestling so far features a jobber getting destroyed and taking ridiculous bumps for mid 80s squash matches. It's been a kick watching Gerald Finley die for our sins every week.

I would be up for this, especially with Loss running it, since I can tell by his taste in wrestling there'll be some real hidden gems and not the sometimes cookie cutter match lineup that tends to pop up in these sort of things. I'm also million billion percent in favor of the aspect of including angles. Especially since WWE 24/7 is building up to the Flair-Kerry cage match which was the kickoff for arguably the best territorial angle ever.

There's also something to be said for people who get way overdefensive when it's pointed out that GH and fat burners have made a lot of the current Divas gain masculine features. Post-jaw surgery Chyna wouldn't stand out amongst today's WWE diva roster. Regardless, I find the near total lack of social skills and graces to be the most alarming feature of a lot of wrestling.

I just realized that at least 2 of these matches (The Blackjack Mulligan Sr/Jr tag and the Lawlers/Putskis tag) were just on WWE 24/7 in the Shorties section a few months back when they had a families theme.

If anything, wrestling's more up front about it's general fucked up-ness than most real sports, which in a way makes it easier. Especially since wrestling already carries the "everyone knows its fake" stigma, it makes it easier to explain to a child that what they're watching is make believe. I know my mom actually took the time to explain to me that wrestling was like movies or TV, and the wrestlers were trained to do what they do. Ironically she ended up keeping kayfabe that way, because she never came out and flatly said "it's fake" since she thought that would mean I'd try to do wrestling moves on people since it wouldn't hurt if it was fake. I mentioned the 30 year old foam finger wavers because I think that's the real problem. Most kids know the deal with wrestling and a lot of them grow out of it when they either graduate high school or college. The emotionally stunted manchildren you see populating message boards (not here of course ) really scare me, especially with their views on women. It's not just WWE Diva types either, they routinely refer to women as sluts and whores to the point it really starts to come off as lashing out for their own stunted social lives. Their lack of real-life social skills ends up manifesting in internet arguments that end up coming off like someone with autism since they can't handle anyone challenging their views on their beloved promotion/wrestler/whatever. I don't know if it's because the Venn diagram of wrestling fans and social misfits has a large overlap or what, but it would make for an interesting study.

My thoughts except maybe CMLL. Why would you hope your kids hate wrestling? I could see not wanting them to like the post Attitude Era stuff, but a world where kids grow up hating 80s territory wrestling makes me a Sad Panda.

I was wondering something today, the kind of thought that only pops into your head while you are standing outside with your dog waiting for her to decide if she's going to answer nature's call or hit the snooze alarm. Most of us are about the same age, and as such, a lot of us either already have kids or are in a position in life where kids could become a possiblity. What are you going to tell them about wrestling? I'm assuming any kids that would have us as a parent would be around wrestling, even if it's DVDs of old 80s territory stuff. I remember back to when I was growing up in the 80s, watching wrestling with my grandfather. I don't think I was ever specifically told about fake and real, it was just one of those things I just started to notice on my own. That was a time where it was a lot more popular too, so being late on something like that would be akin to being the last kid in class to believe in the Tooth Fairy. There's a fine line, I would think. I'd kind of not want to spoil it since part of the fun is having that emotional investment you only get from believing what you're seeing is 100 unscripted (I really enjoyed the Taker-Batista cage match live since I had no idea what was going to happen). You also don't want your kid to be that 30-something guy you see at TV tapings who still has the HULK RULZ shirt and homemade John Cena chain.

In the interest of not starting another Meltzer-centric topic, anyone ever order any of the Observer 80s Yearbooks? They look interesting but that Canadian dude who sells them (and pre 90s back issues) was A) irritatingly vague when I asked about them and charges out the ass for shipping on them. If I'm expected to pay 50% shipping on a book, at least tell me something other than "I make 'em myself!!".

I'd say Hector for sure. You'd think WWE would jump all over the chance to embarrass Crockett by showing him as Lazer Tron. Do a whole "they had a member of a great wrestling family and this is all they could come up with" deal.

MID-ATLANTIC WRESTLING - 1/13/82 - BLACK JACK MULLIGAN & BLACK JACK MULLIGAN JR. VS. RICKY HARRIS & JIM NELSON CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING FROM FLORIDA 4/12/76 - BOB ORTON & BOB ORTON JR. VS. JEFF PORTS & ROCKY SMITH WORLD CLASS CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING STAR WARS 12/25/81 - KEVIN, DAVID & KERRY VON ERICH VS. WILD BILL IRWIN, CAPTAIN F. DUSEK & TEN GU NWA STARRCADE - 11/24/83 - GERRY & JACK BRISCO VS. RICKY STEAMBOAT & JAY YOUNGBLOOD AWA ALL STAR WRESTLING 5/15/88 - GREG GAGNE VS. CURT HENNIG AWA ALL STAR WRESTLING 9/4/88 - LOS GUERREROS VS. MIKE ENOS, KRUSHER KRUGNOFF & TOM BURTON NWA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING 3/18/89 - BARRY & KENDALL WINDHAM VS. MICHAEL HAYES & LEX LUGER SMACKDOWN! - 9/18/03 - EDDIE & CHAVO GUERRERO JR. VS. CHARLIE HAAS & SHELTON BANJAMIN RAW - 7/14/97 - BRIAN CHRISTOPHER & JERRY LAWLER VS. SCOTT & IVAN PUTSKI WRESTLEMANIA 13 - 3/23/97 - ROCKY MAIVIA VS. THE SULTAN ECW HOSTILE CITY SHOWDOWN - 6/24/94 - TERRY & DORY FUNK JR. VS. PUBLIC ENEMY SUMMERSLAM - 8/21/05 - THE UNDERTAKER VS. RANDY ORTON MSG - 2/20/89 - THE FABULOUS ROUGEAU BROTHERS VS. THE BUSHWHACKERS CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING - 9/27/77 - PETER MAIVIA & CHIEF JAY STRONGBOW VS. ALI BABA & BARON MIKEL SCICLUNA SURVIVOR SERIES - 11/24/93 - BRET, OWEN, BRUCE & KEITH HART VS. SHAWN MICHAELS & THREE MASKED KNIGHTS CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS - 8/28/94 - DUSTIN RHODES & DUSTY RHODES VS. TERRY FUNK & BUNKHOUSE BUCK Interesting lineup, but it makes me wonder are all the Guerrero Brothers matches they own just jobber matches from the AWA?

Wow, so much in this post is awesome it would be unfair to just simply reply with an "I agree" so I'll tackle it in sections: As someone who's been crucified at times for suggesting Flair may be a little overrated by the hardcores, Loss pretty much said everything I ever felt about Flair. Some people consider even a hypothetical debate over Flair being "BEST EVAR" to be sacrelige. There's no doubt that he worked probably the most insane schedule of anyone in pro wrestling history, and that he made a lot of local schlubs look like superstars (at least for one night), but it's also apparent as more footage becomes available that Flair had a style that became more repetitive as time went on. Now I don't blame him, as the wear and tear of his schedule and the mental stress of all the political BS he had to deal with would make it impossible to be on a five-star level every night. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that people who weren't into the WWF cartoon stuff in the 80s would naturally flock to Ric Flair. Unless you lived in an area that got a local territory on TV, the only other wrestling you saw was the NWA and the best worker they had was Flair. I'd wager that almost all the current "hardcores" were kids in the 80s who grew up watching Saturday Night on TBS and reading PWI, so there's no doubt who'd their favorite guy would have been. Again, it's not to say Flair isn't the best US worker of all time, and at least a top 5 in the world of all time, but perception plays a big part of how opinions are formed, and people have a habit of taking what they watched growing up and lionizing it into something bigger than it was. It's somewhat telling that it took him wrestling well into his 50s and having his body start to deteriorate before some people finally started to admit he's lost a step. Also, I've said it before and Loss nails it here, you simply just can't get the same effect watching individual matches that you do when you watched the angles build over time. Steamboat-Savage doesn't mean shit if you didn't see him get his throat crushed and see weekly updates on his physical therapy on WWF TV. Watching the Flair-Funk I Quit match loses a lot if you don't know about the stuff like the piledriver on the table, the plastic bag, etc. That's the one thing I think people who relive past matches just aren't getting. They'll watch the Magnum-Tully match and think "well that was OK, but not as good as people say". Well no, it's not, unless you understand the hatred that went into the build. The Ricky Morton stuff I chalk up to another case of Scott Keith bullshit. One of his go-to catchphrases in a tag match would be to describe the guy taking a beating as "playing Ricky Morton" which from the first time I saw it made me wonder if he ever watched a Rock n' Rolls match. I watched many a match on TBS and it was almost always Robert taking the beating and Ricky getting the hot tag. I considered the RnR's the greatest tag team of all time, if for no other reason they managed to get nuclear heat, be teenage heart throbs, and main event cards while being 180 pound rednecks with mullets and potbellies. Neither one really were all that great at promos, but they managed to work a crowd like no one else could (at the time). Everyone knows the matches with the Midnights, but they have great matches with the Andersons and the Russians for the tag titles that are just as good if not better. Flair vs Morton might be the match that solidified me being a fan. The angle was great, with Flair doing the one thing guaranteed to garner the most heat: splatter the face of the #1 pretty boy in the promotion. The match lived up to the build, as the smilin' babyface Morton going crazy and trying to rip the nose off Flair's face. Loss mentions the crowd wincing, but you haven't lived until you've heard teenage girl Rock n Roll fans having heart attacks every time Flair delivers a blow to Ricky's face.

I can't decide which is the best story of the books so far, it's between: 1: The WWF going to the Illinois commission to get Kerry barred from facing Lawler by stating an ancient statute against wrestlers competing with amputated limbs. Meltzer stated there was no reason to do this business-wise, they were just being dicks and trying to ruin the show. or 2. Hogan trying to get WCW to sign practically the whole Anoa'i family just so he could get his win back from Yokozuna. A Samoan Invasion on WCW TV would have been tremendous. Also, the WWF kept it from happening by promising big pushes for Yoko and Fatu, which according to the timeline would suggest the reason behind the "Makin' A Difference Fatu" gimmick.

Is there any footage of Bruno vs Koloff? All I've ever seen is the photo of Ivan in mid-air delivering the winning kneedrop.

The only guy you can say was elevated by it so far is Kennedy, and that's not 100% yet. RVD and Edge were pretty much already at their maximum levels when they won.