sek69

Also, on the Crockett Cup 88 show, I'm assuming that was Dick Murdoch under a mask attacking Dusty after the bullrope match with JJ? I mean, despite having what looked like one of the Thunderfoots' masks on with a long john shirt, jeans, and suspenders, he was thoughtful enough to wear chaps that had "DM" stamped on them.

Funny how freshening up your character will do that. He's been the do gooder born again Christian since his return except for that program with Hogan, and even that was more of a vintage HBK hissy than actual character development. Even in DX he's still been the naiive guy that HHH has to trick into leaving the room so he can make dirty jokes. Angry brawler HBK who's not Mr. Nice Guy anymore is a refreshing change. He's got a real reason for hatred now, and mofos are going to pay. He's not dressing like it's 1996 anymore and I think that is going to help get him over more than anything else. He was quickly getting to almost Al Bundy "I scored 3 touchdowns in one game" levels of hanging on to the past. I stil hate the nip-up thing, but I just accept that it's just one of those things like Hulking Up that you just have to let slide or you'll go insane.

I kinda dig how Shawn's been doing the Terry Funk: Crazy Old Texan gimmick. It's like watching ECW only HBK has more functional knees. It makes it more believeable that he can beat multiple people by himself when he's going around punting them in the balls like he did to Edge and Orton.

It already seems to be removed by the WWE Revisionist History Machine, but I always thought that line was perfectly in character for a guy who spent his whole career fighting against Hogan.

Or most likely a combo of both. WWE proved with Umaga that once someone pushed as an unstoppable monster loses a match, they lose some of the aura. No one's been able to end an undefeated streak without costing the guy's momentum. See also: Goldberg, Bill.

Or it could be just smarky hipster ROH douches hating on Joe because he's been spending more time in TNA lately. Just saying, it was bound to happen sooner or later that Joe was going to reach "enough people like him so now the first ones to like him have to hate him to maintan their cred" status.

Mike Graham is a tremendous douchebag, as has been stated previously on other boards, but people are totally no-selling the creepy molester uncle vibe he gives off. His little segments completely derail the CWF shows every time. I don't know what made them think "Hey I bet people would love it if we interrupted all the neat classic wrestling to watch some dipshit give himself a verbal beej for 5 minutes". After watching his RAW debut match on the 11/25/96 Monday Night War, I'm convinced there's no way Rocky Miavia would ever survive the initial stages today. Absolutely no hint of the charisma that made him famous, a horrible look/gimmick, and a finisher right from the playbook of an 80s midcarder (a shoulderbreaker? come on...). Something to think about while WWE goes through its annual pre-WM salary purge and dumps 3/4th of the developmental roster. Also, it's kind of jarring to see Sunny and remember there was a time where the top WWF/E female didn't have ridiculously oversized rock hard breast implants. The only bad thing about the Monday Night War series is that it really makes me miss Nitro. Watching Eric join the nWo was an awesome moment to relive. It was great how everyone down to the announcers sold the hell out of that angle. You had Tony snapping from being constantly teased by the Outsiders, Tenay and Heenan sounding like they were becoming physically ill at the sight of Eric switching sides, just great stuff that totally drives home the seriousness of your main storyline. Watching the early lucha stuff is fun too. Juvi and La Parka went out there in front of a crowd that had no idea who they were and were passionate in their not giving a shit, and ended up winning the house over by the end. Speaking of Mexicans, Villano IV wrestled unmasked as "Tony Pena" (oh that wacky WCW), and it occured to me that the Villanos are apparently the Clone Troopers of Mexico. I know they're brothers, but Villano IV looked exactly like Villano III minus the inches-deep forehead scars of course. It's like they have some sort of Villano Factory down there.

That makes me a sad panda...........

The sad thing (assuming Salmon's okay and all) is that this gives all the anti-MMA people something to point to the next time they try to get MMA banned in a state. I mean, we've all seen injuries that required a stretcher in almost every other major sport but MMA could ill afford anything that would make the critics sound even somewhat reasonable.

Some of the interactions between Lou and Vince on TNT and other 80s WWF shows is awkward as hell, like Vince always referring to him as Captain LOUIS Albano in that inflection only Vince can do. Also, Bix if you have that match you have to upload it. My life won't be complete without seeing the Captian go FMW on someone.

Over on DVDVR's "comments that don't warrant their own thread" topic, someone posted this: What's up with this? Was it an angle gone awry? A "cocaine is a hell of a drug" moment? Seems out of character for even heel Captain Lou to go all Abdullah the Butcher on someone. Also, Albano got fired? I just figured he retired for age/heath reasons.

So then there's a good chance that most of the people who voted him worst announcer never heard him call a match? I mean, who watches the web shows?

The awards are just hilarous...... Worst Announcer -Todd Grisham? Is he even an announcer? I only ever see him doing backstage interviews and getting superkicked by HBK. Even if ECW wasn't so dull the show would still be unwatchable due to Tazz doing his "80s Vince McMahon with a Noo Yawk accent" color commentary. Seriously, all he does now is go "WHOAWHOAWHOA" and "NOTFORNOTHIN" about a hundred times a match. Meltz seems really upset a luchador won Wrestler of the Year. I swear every mention of him is how he was lucky to be where he was to get his push and how it won't last, which may be true, but he's getting into JYD territory with the constant subtle burying. Not to keep beating a dead horse, but it's really ridiculous to see UFC guys winning pro wrestling awards like "Feud of the Year". The whole argument seems to come down to "MMA is better because they drew more money" which makes no sense because if that was the most important criteria, boxers would sweep the awards every year. Most Underrated - Shelton Benjamin. Second year in a row. First year, you can argue, this year....even Dave seems to think this is the wrong pick. The Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic was a no-brainer, but looking back I think the "Savio and Invader I do a stabbing angle" was worse because even the WWE didn't go so far as having Benoit leave Chavo beaten in a hotel bathroom. Honestly, a lot of the Best/Worst awards read like typical "WWE SUX, ROH RULZ" message board crap. RAW was the worst show of the year? Really? Even over ECW? I think a lot of people were just filling in the blanks and not really paying attention. Kinda like how I wonder how many people who voted Do Fixer vs Blood Generation as Match of the Year actually watched it (not that I'm saying it didn't deserve to win, it just got the "MOTY" buzz instantly and became one of those things you weren't even allowed to have a different opinon on).

Bonus LOLZ for the story of someone suggesting they add someone to DX to give HBK a partner and maybe make a new star, only for HHH to immediately nix the idea.

Dave's ranting was funny but it seemed like he's always trying to bury the WWE HOF because in his mind only the WON HOF counts. It's not like he's breaking any new ground by pointing out it's basically whoever Vince wants to be inducted, but he mentions it every time like he's uncovered a state secret. Also bonus points for him taking the time to swipe at JYD again (in the guise of correcting the Flair vs JYD in Mid South claims). Meltz vs JYD has to be one of the longest running feuds in wrestling. Even death can't stop it!

Yeah but for some reason pro wrestling seemed to be the kryptonite for his promo abilities. I heard him speak in UFC and didn't even know it was the same person at first it was so different. Plus shoot-style gimmicks don't get over much in US pro wrestling. Ken came the closest, but he just didn't look comfortable in a wrestling environment. It was like he was in constant fear of forgetting he was supposed to be working, which would be understandable considering he splattered that one guy's nose on RAW once.

DSW never seemed to be any good, I remember reading somewhere that WWE agents went to a show and were appalled at how bad it was. Looks like they might try to reshuffle things so OVW is the development area and ECW is the "too good for OVW but not ready for prime time" area.

People tend to gloss over the real/work aspect, as if it's not that big of a distinction. Pro wrestling has a huge advantage in which they can decide who becomes a superstar. The only thing they have to worry about is a freak injury to someone they've been pushing (which as WWE has shown, can be a big problem when there's no backup plan). MMA promotions have the extra burden of worrying the guy they want to be the Next Big Thing doesn't get ktfo by someone who isn't in their plans. Hence the champ vs can matches that Pride gets knocked for by some people. Wrestling promotions don't have that problem, if someone they want to be big fails it's usually not due to lack of effort on their part building the guy (excluding cases of guys getting their pushes cut due to political bullshit things). I just don't see how you can have MMA and pro wrestling intertwined on any level other than they both plan episodically to sell PPVs, they're two distinct animals that just happen to have a crossover fanbase. Even then it's not even a true crossover, but people who've grown bored of wrestling.

It's kinda funny, because it seems Edge was seen in the same way by the company for years, and he only got his shot at the top because they wanted to do a quick belt swap. Also: So you're saying anyone who sees a difference between MMA and pro wrestling is a behind the times old fart? I really don't see any connection between the two other than both are popular in Japan and both at least try to plan long term to build PPVs. I mean, pro wrestling and boxing have co-existed for about 100 years and for a good part of that time both were being presented as genuine contests. If anything, I see MMA replacing boxing in that dynamic simply because boxing seems to be unable to create any "feuds" that can generate more than one PPV buyrate. I mean, if Meltzer wants to include MMA in the WON awards that's fine, but they need to either make a separate award for MMA fighters or rename the Wrestler of the Year award.

Why would someone from UFC win Wrestler of the Year? Also, on a related note, Dave really needs to separate wrestling and MMA a little more clearly. I'm certain the WON is the driving force behind people who seem to think MMA is going to destroy wrestling.

I guess it can be debated how much input he had, but like it or not Crash TV was one of the things that helped WWF turn the corner on WCW. They went from the death throes of the cartoon era to an edgier style with Austin, Rock, and DX. WWF started targeting teens and young adults instead of the little kid demo the Hulkamania era was popular with. He also gives jobbers/lower midcarders a semblance of a gimmick or personality. Some of them suck, but really who didn't like Screamin' Norman Smiley? The thing about Russo is that he doesn't seem to know how to write a proper end so his shit goes on way past the point it should have been over and just keeps going.

I'll freely admit not having a vast library of either promotion yet, but I dig Pride's matches more than UFC so far. Even the champs-vs-cans matches remind me of NWA champs taking on jobbers. I guess what I'm saying is pretty much what everyone else has said, watch some of both and see what floats your boat the most.

from WO: There was much LOLZ-ing over them getting a low rating around Christmas time, I guess the folks who hate TNA but can't stop watching it every week so they can bitch about it are telling their friends to watch and bitch as well.

You know, I don't really want to defend Russo but there seems to be a definate trend to want to minimize any contributions Russo made at all because he is pretty much unquestionably an asshole at best and an egomaniac who nearly destroyed the business at worst. I realize it's really hard to overlook all the really bad stuff he's been responsible for, but the current trend of completely dismissing his entire body of work seems to be almost as much revisionist history as a typical WWE DVD.

If you have a Netflix subscription, they have UFCs 43-58 and a veritable assload of Pride stuff. I've decided to just jump head long into all of it. It's funny how UFC vs Pride ends up similar to WWF vs NWA in the 80s. Pride seems to have the better fights but UFC has the better (and perhaps more marketable) characters from what I've seen.